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What Is Pappy Van Winkle Bourbon And Why Is It So Expensive?

The Count of Merkur Cristo

B&B's Emperor of Emojis
Fellow Drinkers:
🐎 When I think of bourbon...thoughts of Kentucky, 1⁄4 horses grazing on the 'spread' and a slower lifestyle of it's own. :thumbsup:

By Erica Martinez - Food Republic - 29 Sept 23

"If you're a bourbon enthusiast, you may have a variety of bottles lying around. You probably have ones that you like to have on hand for everyday sipping or even mixing up a regular bourbon sour cocktail, as well as the precious bottles that are only brought out for special occasions (or really long days).
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And then there's the Sasquatch of the bourbon world: Pappy Van Winkle. Obtaining a bottle is akin to winning one of Wonka's Golden Tickets. 🎟️

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Many bourbon fans have seen the brand's elusive bottles in pictures but few have actually witnessed its glory in the flesh, leaving some wondering if Pappy (as it's endearingly referred to) is nothing more than an urban bourbon legend.

It does indeed exist, but bottles are so rare and so exceedingly expensive that, even if you miraculously come across one, you are left to wonder if dipping into your retirement account to purchase it is a wise thing to do.

The distillery that makes Pappy, Buffalo Trace, recommends that bottles retail for anywhere between $70 and $300, a price point that really isn't out of the question for a good bourbon.

The problem is that the bottles are so rare and reputable that they are often sold for much more — we're talking thousands of dollars. Still, when spotted, Pappy bottles are scooped up without hesitation. ["mine, mine,mine"!]

It's the kind of thing that happens when a bourbon has won more awards than it can count, is released in limited numbers, and is aged for at least 15 years before it's released.

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Like many wines, bourbon goes through an extended aging process before it's bottled. By law, a spirit labeled "bourbon" must be aged in oak barrels for at least two years.

However, Pappy Van Winkle is aged for at least 15 years, which not only increases production costs, but also results in less bourbon to bottle, also because some of the booze naturally evaporates during this process (this is known as the "angel's share"). :angel:

The limited number of bottles produced simply can't keep up with the demand so, naturally, collectors and enthusiasts clamor for the supply, and are willing to pay a lot more money than a normal manufacturer's suggested retail price (MSRP) for brands like Pappy Van Winkle.

And then, many of those lucky enough to get their hands on a bottle will turn around and sell it themselves for even more money (this is called the secondary market).

In general, the longer a bourbon ages in the barrel, the better it is. 🥃

After a decade and a half in oak (or longer), Pappy Van Winkle becomes incredibly smooth and complex, besting a bourbon that's been aged for a mere two years.

This kind of craftsmanship attracts serious bourbon drinkers who are more than willing to shell out more money for it. Of course, the numerous awards that Pappy has won over the years speak for themselves, too.

n 1997, the Chicago Beverage Tasting Institute gave Pappy Van Winkle a glowing review and a rating of 99 out of 100.

This happened at a time when bourbon had long since gone out of style in America and no one paid much attention to the Pappy brand. The rating, which was the highest a whiskey had ever been given, breathed new life into the company.

Other tasting institutions took notice and awards came swarming in tenfold. Immediately, Pappy became the bourbon to get your hands on and its reputation hasn't wavered since.

As word of mouth spread and celebrities like Anthony Bourdain went on record praising the bourbon, interest increased even more. Today, drinking bourbon is highly en vogue again and interest in it has skyrocketed.

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Pappy Van Winkle actually sells two lines of bourbons.

Old Rip Van Winkle is aged for 10, 12, or 13 years while Pappy Van Winkle is barreled for 15, 20, or 23 years with the oldest bottles sometimes selling for tens of thousands of dollars with an MSRP of about $300. :drool:

This just shows how rare and desirable these bottles actually are. Whether or not the flavor is worth such money is totally subjective. The irony is, many people who are able to get a bottle of Pappy never even open it".
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Works Cited: Why is Pappy van Winkle Bourbon so Expensive?

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“Bourbon is easy to understand. Tastes like a warm summer day”. Raylan Givens
 
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Tirvine

ancient grey sweatophile
I have never had Pappy, but I used to get old Rip 10 YO when it was under $35 a fifth. It was incredibly good, but so are plenty of others. I do not understand the obscene prices Pappy commands. I will now and then pay up for something truly great like a bottle of Krug or an old Heitz cab, but not Pappy or DRC prices, more in the neighborhood of a couple hundred. Even that seems excessive. I much prefer to find something really good that I can actually afford on a more regular basis. There are some great bottles of bourbon under $100. Heck, a handle of EW BIB is terrific for under $25 for a handle.
 
It is an old wheated bourbon. It is expensive due to a clever marketing strategy of shipping a single case to liquor stores each fall, and having a good product. Intentionally restricting the supply, keeping good quality, lots of hype.

I prefer rye mashbills, especially Heaven Hill's, but their (bt/seagrams) rye mashbill is really nice too. I wish I could still walk into any liquor store and get eagle rare 17 for $70 like I could 15 years ago.
 
I’ve owned and drank multiple bottles of Pappy 15, 20 and 23. It’s produced by Buffalo Trace Distillery. The 20 and 23 are probably the smoothest, lowest burn bourbons I’ve ever tasted. When I drank it, the 20 was $100 and 23 $250 per bottle. Now, you’d be lucky to get bottles for $3,000 or $5,000, respectively. It is certainly not worth those current prices. Honestly, while smooth as a baby’s butt, the 20 and 23 are both too woody for me. This is to be expected when alcohol is stored in a new oak barrel for two decades or more. I’ve been a bourbon fan for 20-25 years, and I’ve sampled and owned virtually every elite bourbon or rye whiskey bottled. I candidly never put Pappy in my top five. However, there is a bourbon bottled and produced there at Buffalo Trace that is unforgettable and spectacular; Eagle Rare 17-year old. It, too, is now very difficult to find and may cost you $2K at a place like Flaviar or Frootbat. It used to be generally available in the last quarter of the year (it was typically bottled in October) in liquor stores all over and retailed for around $60. Bourbon has just gone slap mad over the last 8 years or so.

Also, Buffalo Trace produces several other coveted bourbons like, Blanton’s, Weller and Col. EH. Taylor. All worth trying if you can get some affordably at some point. Those 3 are usually in $120-$250 range these days.

But, as with most things, bourbon is YMMV. Many will swear Pappy 20 is like drinking from the Holy Grail at the Last Supper. Just doesn’t hit me the same way. If you ever get a chance to get it at a reasonable price, try the Pappy and ER, I’ve always loved hearing others take on Pappy v. ER.
 
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As a former barman I agree prices are ridiculous across the bar (see what I did there) and they seem to keep going up. The real sleepers are those "bottom shelf" items that have solid flavor and don't break the bank. My go to for something mixed is Wild Turkey 101. When last I looked it was around $55 for a 1.75l bottle. A couple of years ago it was even less still.o

While I enjoy all whiskeys, my lean is towards rye over bourbon when I'm hankering for something brown. Russell's 8 yr is solid. I laid out too much a few months back for Michter's Rye: enjoyed it and won't be reaching for that again anytime soon.

Lately I've been more inclined towards a good reposado. Sadly these have really hit hard by the inflation bug. Siete Leguas has been filling this spot on my shelf. I consider, no haters please, reposados and anejos the Mexican analogs to whiskey: these are rested/aged in oak.
 
I’ve owned and drank multiple bottles of Pappy 15, 20 and 23. It’s produced by Buffalo Trace Distillery. The 20 and 23 are probably the smoothest, lowest burn bourbons I’ve ever tasted. When I drank it, the 20 was $100 and 23 $250 per bottle. Now, you’d be lucky to get bottles for $3,000 or $5,000, respectively. It is certainly not worth those current prices. Honestly, while smooth as a baby’s butt, the 20 and 23 are both too woody for me. This is to be expected when alcohol is stored in a new oak barrel for two decades or more. I’ve been a bourbon fan for 20-25 years, and I’ve sampled and owned virtually every elite bourbon or rye whiskey bottled. I candidly never put Pappy in my top five. However, there is a bourbon bottled and produced there at Buffalo Trace that is unforgettable and spectacular; Eagle Rare 17-year old. It, too, is now very difficult to find and may cost you $2K at a place like Flaviar or Frootbat. It used to be generally available in the last quarter of the year (it was typically bottled in October) in liquor stores all over and retailed for around $60. Bourbon has just gone slap mad over the last 8 years or so.

Also, Buffalo Trace produces several other coveted bourbons like, Blanton’s, Weller and Col. EH. Taylor. All worth trying if you can get some affordably at some point. Those 3 are usually in $120-$250 range these days.

But, as with most things, bourbon is YMMV. Many will swear Pappy 20 is like drinking from the Holy Grail at the Last Supper. Just doesn’t hit me the same way. If you ever get a chance to get it at a reasonable price, try the Pappy and ER, I’ve always loved hearing others take on Pappy v. ER.
Weller is interesting. If memory serves, the red label of the three labels I tried was the most interesting and pleasant to drink. Col Taylor BIB was also quite excellent.

Rowan's Creek is another favorite of mine.
 
I'm going to leave this article from several years ago here as a counterpoint of sorts, it explains the basic history pretty well and doesn't suffer from the typical breathless hype that usually surrounds the subject.

If you're at all interested in bourbon, both history and current trends, you should read Chuck's blog posts, it's a treasure trove.
 
This reminds me of the tasting I had of Maker’s Mark bourbon. I always wanted to know what a $170 bottle of bourbon tasted like. Too expensive for my liking, but intriguing. The local store finally had a tasting of it, 120 proof. I was surprised that it wasn’t any better than the $45 - $50 bottles of other bourbons I have tried. Pappy’s is likely better, but hundreds of dollars better? Maybe, but I would have to have a sample first to find out.
 
So, here's the deal with Pappy. It's *always* been sold under a scarcity model. Some of that is shrewd marketing but a lot of it is just the economics of extra-aged whiskey, and probably more importantly, the cyclical nature of the industry.

The backstory is that Julian Sr. (Pappy) ran the Stitzel-Weller distillery from shortly after Prohibition ended until his death. Their flagship product was a wheat-recipe bourbon, sold under brands like Old Fitz and Weller. It's likely they chose that initially because wheated bourbons tend to "come of age" quicker but it quickly filled a niche in the bourbon market for a smooth, more delicate whiskey. Maker's Mark followed the same basic recipe and aging strategy many years later to great success. But, wheated bourbon also takes to age very well, better (generally) than rye-recipe bourbons do, which becomes important later.

Julian Sr died in the late 60s, if my memory serves, and his son took over. The Stitzel-Weller distillery was sold in 1972 along with it's brands, to a group that eventually became United Distillers and then Diageo. However, the Van Winkle family retained the rights to that name-brand and had an agreement for access to an allocation of aging stock for that purpose. How much they actually exercised those rights over thr next 30 years, I don't know.

Fast forward to 1992, UD stopped production at Stitzel-Weller and sold the Old Fitz brand to Heaven Hill and the Weller brand to Sazerac (Buffalo Trace) along with some aging stock to keep them going.

Somewhere in the next few years, Julian Van Winkle III (Pappy's grandson) began or continued to bottle the 15, 20, and 23 as limited editions...mostly limited by the remaining stock he had access to. He also had a more available Old Rip Van Winkle line. He also did some bottling for another boutique, non-distiller product company around the same time. Basically, limited editions of very old stock that probably wouldn't have sold otherwise, likely would have been blended into other products.

The great thing about the Pappy brand was he didn't really have to market it. It was an oddity already, an extra aged wheater, and it had a bit of a following in the high end restaurant scene in KY. Plus, it was no secret that he was using up S-W stock, which was fondly remembered by serious bourbon aficionados. So, it basically sold itself, although the market niche was pretty small.

Now, Buffalo Trace was already making wheated bourbon by now to fill the Weller brand, and in fact had done some contracted spot distilling in the 90s on behalf of UD to fill inventory gaps after the closure of S-W. And Julian was working with them to bottle his brands. It wasn't a secret that he intended to transition to Buffalo Trace stock as the S-W stock dried up, and as it turned out, BT's wheated bourbon was as good or better than the old stuff, anyway. A little different, maybe, but excellent. And frankly a lot better than what Heaven Hill managed to do with Old Fitz, although they can be perhaps forgiven since they had some huge challenges at the time, the biggest being the catastrophic fire in 96 that destroyed their stillhouse and a bunch of storage.

The hype came from a couple directions. One, the whiskey *was* really good. A few unsolicited celebrity endorsements (Bourdain, for one) gave it some wider exposure. The second thing, was that bourbon in general was undergoing a huge resurgence at the same time and the internet made it explode.

Van Winkle products were at an intersection of hardcore bourbon enthusiasts who elevated the Stitzel-Weller legacy to legendary status, and on the other side, neophytes who only knew that it was expensive, and hard to find, so it *must* be the best. Meanwhile, bloggers, food writers, and "influencers" with only marginal understanding of bourbon continued to crank out top ten lists and breathless articles like the one quoted in the OP. Demand exploded.

The other aspect of the current whiskey boom is that warehouse space is at a premium. And as such it doesn't make sense to lay down a bunch of barrels for 20 years when the vast majority of your production is going to be bottled at 4-6 years. And superannuated whiskey is an inherent risk. One, it's hard to forecast market conditions 20 years out (multiple boom/ bust cycles over the last 50 years bear that out). Two, whiskey evaporates. Three, there's no guarantee that barrel isn't going to suck in 20 years. It might peak at 12, and you have to account for that too. Meanwhile, Buffalo Trace has their own lines of extra-aged products in the pipeline, with demand far outstripping supply, and as much as they're happy to partner with the Van Winkle family, they have their own competing interests to consider.

The whole reason there was even any 20-plus year old whiskey lying around when the brand started, was the whiskey bust cycle in the 80s. They just couldn't sell the stuff. And at the time, brands like Beam and Wild Turkey were dumping very old whiskey into the lower shelf brands at a loss. It was a bad time to be a distillery but a great time to be drinking on a budget.

So it's a little misleading to call it "artificial" scarcity, because it's a lot more complicated than that. But the bottom line is, the Van Winkles don't have to spend a dime on marketing, don't have to tell any tales, and the stuff sells itself.

The other elephant in the room is the three-tier distribution system in this country which complicates things even further in terms of pricing and availability, and that's completely outside the Van Winkles' control.
 
To append that very long post, I'm not even sure Julian III intended to keep the brand going long-term or if he just started out trying to sell off some of the very old stock that he had access to. But, I'll give him credit for forward thinking. The rye, I can't remember if we ever dif figure out where it was made (Medley, maybe? Don't quote me on that) but it was a batch that had been distilled under contract for somebody, and then never sold. He bought it, probably at a steep discount, and bottled it at 13 years old. As I recall he continued to let it age until somewhere around 18 at which point he transferred it to a steel tank as it was no longer improving. I had a bottle of that (paid MSRP, too) and it was incredible. As far as the bourbons the 15 was the only one I cared for but not enough to buy a bottle. Had some Old Rip 10 that I liked a lot better, not even taking price into account. I think the best wheated bourbon I ever had was William Larue Weller from the Buffalo Trace Antique Collection, probably 2012 bottling (back when you could still get it without putting your name in a hat).

20240710_085114.jpg
 
So, here's the deal with Pappy. It's *always* been sold under a scarcity model. Some of that is shrewd marketing but a lot of it is just the economics of extra-aged whiskey, and probably more importantly, the cyclical nature of the industry.

The backstory is that Julian Sr. (Pappy) ran the Stitzel-Weller distillery from shortly after Prohibition ended until his death. Their flagship product was a wheat-recipe bourbon, sold under brands like Old Fitz and Weller. It's likely they chose that initially because wheated bourbons tend to "come of age" quicker but it quickly filled a niche in the bourbon market for a smooth, more delicate whiskey. Maker's Mark followed the same basic recipe and aging strategy many years later to great success. But, wheated bourbon also takes to age very well, better (generally) than rye-recipe bourbons do, which becomes important later.

Julian Sr died in the late 60s, if my memory serves, and his son took over. The Stitzel-Weller distillery was sold in 1972 along with it's brands, to a group that eventually became United Distillers and then Diageo. However, the Van Winkle family retained the rights to that name-brand and had an agreement for access to an allocation of aging stock for that purpose. How much they actually exercised those rights over thr next 30 years, I don't know.

Fast forward to 1992, UD stopped production at Stitzel-Weller and sold the Old Fitz brand to Heaven Hill and the Weller brand to Sazerac (Buffalo Trace) along with some aging stock to keep them going.

Somewhere in the next few years, Julian Van Winkle III (Pappy's grandson) began or continued to bottle the 15, 20, and 23 as limited editions...mostly limited by the remaining stock he had access to. He also had a more available Old Rip Van Winkle line. He also did some bottling for another boutique, non-distiller product company around the same time. Basically, limited editions of very old stock that probably wouldn't have sold otherwise, likely would have been blended into other products.

The great thing about the Pappy brand was he didn't really have to market it. It was an oddity already, an extra aged wheater, and it had a bit of a following in the high end restaurant scene in KY. Plus, it was no secret that he was using up S-W stock, which was fondly remembered by serious bourbon aficionados. So, it basically sold itself, although the market niche was pretty small.

Now, Buffalo Trace was already making wheated bourbon by now to fill the Weller brand, and in fact had done some contracted spot distilling in the 90s on behalf of UD to fill inventory gaps after the closure of S-W. And Julian was working with them to bottle his brands. It wasn't a secret that he intended to transition to Buffalo Trace stock as the S-W stock dried up, and as it turned out, BT's wheated bourbon was as good or better than the old stuff, anyway. A little different, maybe, but excellent. And frankly a lot better than what Heaven Hill managed to do with Old Fitz, although they can be perhaps forgiven since they had some huge challenges at the time, the biggest being the catastrophic fire in 96 that destroyed their stillhouse and a bunch of storage.

The hype came from a couple directions. One, the whiskey *was* really good. A few unsolicited celebrity endorsements (Bourdain, for one) gave it some wider exposure. The second thing, was that bourbon in general was undergoing a huge resurgence at the same time and the internet made it explode.

Van Winkle products were at an intersection of hardcore bourbon enthusiasts who elevated the Stitzel-Weller legacy to legendary status, and on the other side, neophytes who only knew that it was expensive, and hard to find, so it *must* be the best. Meanwhile, bloggers, food writers, and "influencers" with only marginal understanding of bourbon continued to crank out top ten lists and breathless articles like the one quoted in the OP. Demand exploded.

The other aspect of the current whiskey boom is that warehouse space is at a premium. And as such it doesn't make sense to lay down a bunch of barrels for 20 years when the vast majority of your production is going to be bottled at 4-6 years. And superannuated whiskey is an inherent risk. One, it's hard to forecast market conditions 20 years out (multiple boom/ bust cycles over the last 50 years bear that out). Two, whiskey evaporates. Three, there's no guarantee that barrel isn't going to suck in 20 years. It might peak at 12, and you have to account for that too. Meanwhile, Buffalo Trace has their own lines of extra-aged products in the pipeline, with demand far outstripping supply, and as much as they're happy to partner with the Van Winkle family, they have their own competing interests to consider.

The whole reason there was even any 20-plus year old whiskey lying around when the brand started, was the whiskey bust cycle in the 80s. They just couldn't sell the stuff. And at the time, brands like Beam and Wild Turkey were dumping very old whiskey into the lower shelf brands at a loss. It was a bad time to be a distillery but a great time to be drinking on a budget.

So it's a little misleading to call it "artificial" scarcity, because it's a lot more complicated than that. But the bottom line is, the Van Winkles don't have to spend a dime on marketing, don't have to tell any tales, and the stuff sells itself.

The other elephant in the room is the three-tier distribution system in this country which complicates things even further in terms of pricing and availability, and that's completely outside the Van Winkles' control.
This was a great read. I knew about a third of this. I really appreciate your taking the time to summarize a rather fascinating bit of bourbon history. I loved learning the other two-thirds. Best, Rusty
 
This was a great read. I knew about a third of this. I really appreciate your taking the time to summarize a rather fascinating bit of bourbon history. I loved learning the other two-thirds. Best, Rusty
Thanks. It was fun to dredge up some of these memories. I quit chasing high end bourbon about ten years ago but I was pretty passionate about it for a while. There's so much great history...
 
The liquor store I go to in NJ, has a bottle of Pappy's for $1,800. If anyone is interested, I can give you their phone #. The closest I get to Pappy's is a ball cap that I picked up on a visit to KY 10+ years ago with their distillery logo "Old Rip Van Winkle Distillery". It's my favorite summer cap, but I spent too many drunken nights on cheap bourbon at a KY college in the 60s and have no desire to ever taste bourbon again.
 
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