Hart Steel razor's on great sale, could not resist

[kelbro]

No problem Rayclem. You have posted the same multiple times on multiple websites and if I had the same experience, I might have done the same.

I own / have owned three Harts myself, all great blades. And as I said many have been sold without issues so something must have changed somewhere in the supply chain. I hate to see a good American brand get burned down.

Most companies do not allow seconds or returns to be sold for this very reason. If Hart sold out, they probably lost control of that part of their business.

Doggone shame too.

 

[RayClem]

I never purchased from CS back in their prime. I heard that Dave was a great guy with superb customer service, but once TGN took over, it looks like it became a new ball game.

 

[maboroshi]

So, my hart straight razor came today!

I tried doing a brief WTG shave on bits of my cheek and a bit of the upper lip and bits of chin. No blood so that's good.

But the blade felt like it tugged a bit and was not really smooth. So... I think my hart is not thaaatttt bad, just likely needs a bit of cleaning up of the bevel edge and good honing I guess?

Have attached pics of it so you guys can give me your take on if it looks ok or I should be sending it to a pro to grind more properly again and put a better edge on this.

 

[RayClem]

Maboroshi

Your Hart looks a lot like mine in that it has some of the deep scratches in the grind. I read that the Hart satin finish is supposed to be done at 400 grit finished with Scotchbrite, but some of the scratches look deeper than 400 grit to me. Since you did not get cuts, perhaps you blade did not have the microchips mine had originally.

Anyway, I do have a positive update to report on my Hart. Yesterday, I received a new 5MP USB microscope. I took my Hart back to the stones and took photos at each stage. I completely killed the edge to remove any chips in the blade. I set the bevel on a Naniwa 1K SS without tape; I was not been satisfied with the sharpness of the edge when using tape as recommended by Hart. I progressed upward through the entire series 1K, 2K, 3K, 5K, 8K, 10K without chipping. I only did enough strokes on each hone to remove the scratches from the previous stone.

I have a Naniwa 12K, but that was the stone that seemed to cause the microchips, so I skipped it. I then went to two natural stones for finishing. The first was an ILR that removed the scratches from the synthetics, but left some fine scratches/stria of its own. Then I went to a CNAT 12K. It left a hazy finish with a few fine stria. Here is a photo of the edge off the CNAT. The black mark on the face is my reference point so I could compare the same spot on the blade each time. You can see some of the deeper scratches from the grind that go down into the bevel.

I could improve the edge beyond this level, but I am afraid that I might get microchips if I go too far. At this stage, the shave with the Hart is not as good as I get with my full hollow blades, but the Hart now meets my minimum standards for a shave ready edge.

Thus, I am satisfied with my decision to keep the razor and work with it rather than returning it to CS. I did buy it at a steep discount, so I was not expecting a pristine quality razor. I can live with the scratches in the face of the razor as long as it gives a decent shave.

Maboroshi, hopefully, someone in your area with some natural finishing hones will be able to put a great edge on your blade. Whether you want it honed with or without tape is up to you.

 

[maboroshi]

Hi RayClem, man that edge you put on your hart looks really good. Way better a bevel than what I have on mine at the moment. I guess mine is anything but shave ready.
(If i run my fingers across the blade edge, it feels rather grippy in a sharp cut way, so I guess that's not the kind of edge you want on your straight?)

It's just a tad unfortunate that the first ever straight I get, is this one.

So I don't have anything to compare it against, except perhaps pictures of other straights I have seen on the forums.

(on your last comment on someone in my area, I think that is going to be tricky as I live in Singapore, and the whole straight shaving thing is not big here at all. But on the good news, I am going to get myself a proper set of stones, as I'm a bit of a budding knife enthusiast, so plan to practise and get good at sharpening, and in my set is a good natural stone, so I should have a proper set to re-set the bevel on my hart and put on a good final more refined edge once my set of stones arrive. I guess till then I better not try to shave with this hart of mine just yet in case I get a rude introduction to straight shaving.)

I guess my hart is not as bad in terms of the microchipping, but the grind is rather similar to yours, being rather crude and wonky bevel and cutting edge. Not a good fit and finish that would have been expected from older harts I guess.

Just putting my hart out there for inspection from the rest of the experts in this forum, and to see if it is that bad or actually not too bad, etc.

I actually had half a mind to send it to Chris from ShaveSmith, to maybe regrind it a bit to an almost 1/3 or 1/2 hollow perhaps, and maybe do up the scales a bit better... (The current fastening system is not very good. After a few opens and closes it gets loose and I need to tighten it up with the allenkey. The finish of the scale is not good too, with there being small bits that look like chipped off wood around the hole for the fastener/washer.)
So at least getting it sorted out/reground/touched-up/re-finished with a proper shave ready bevel and edge put on it...... And a better Scale too perhaps.....
Might at least totally salvage this straight and turn it into a totally good razor under the hands of a pro.
Coz i'm thinking the O1 steel that this hart is made of, shouldn't be too bad a steel anyway? Maybe it could get re heat-treated too by a pro such as Chris to turn something rather crude and not too refined in fit and finish into something really good?

Good idea?

 

[Acmemfg]

Were it me, I would calculate the cost of new scales-$75-$90 for nice ones and the expense getting the blade reworked (ain't gonna be cheap). Take that and compare it to the price of a new BRW ($190-$200) or Ralf Aust ($150-$175).
I'd just go with a new razor you know is correct from the get go and refurbish the Hart when you have more experience with the straight razor didcipline.

 

[RayClem]

I'd just go with a new razor you know is correct from the get go and refurbish the Hart when you have more experience with the straight razor didcipline.

+1 on the advice from Acmemfg. O1 tool steel is not the easiest steel to hone and a quarter hollow grind is not the easiest to hone. You need a lot more honing experience before you are ready to tackle the Hart and sinking more money into that razor at this stage of your learning curve may not be justified.

Put the Hart away in a drawer for now and start looking for a moderately priced razor (Aust, Boker, Dovo) from a authorized reseller who knows how to put a shave ready edge on a razor. For now, I would suggest you avoid Classic Shaving or any of the other companies that are associated with The Grooming Network. They all ship from a modern warehouse facility in Sandpoint, ID, so it is unlikely that you can get them to inspect a razor, hone it properly and ship it to you. Most of the independents will gladly do that for you. Some may provide that service as part of the price, others may charge a modest fee, but it is worth it, especially since you live in Singapore and returns are difficult.

When you are ready to get into honing, check out the honing forums for suggestions on which hones you might want to obtain. Hone acquisition can be just as much as obsession as razor acquisition. I know from personal experience on both counts. I would suggest that you start with a finishing hone that you can use to maintain your razors when they no longer deliver the shave you have come to expect.

When you are ready to learn how to set a bevel, purchase some cheap vintage razors or Chinese razors that you won't mind discarding if you ruin them with your first attempts at honing. Once you can produce a shave ready edge on these cheap razors, then bring the Hart out of the drawer and see what you can do with it.

 

[maboroshi]

Thanks so much for the advice guys. Really appreciate it.

I'm actually planning to get good at sharpening and have some stones on order soon, so will actually have a very proper set of stones to set bevels and home and finish the edge.
(Getting a set of nubatamas with a yag asagi nat finishing stone. Was bought more for my knives but will come in handy for straights maintenance too)

Only problem is if this hart of mine has such ****ty grind already, and not sure too about how good they do their O1 and heat treat nowadays....then not sure if it really needs to be reground by an expert.

I'm trying to play the very disappointed customer card with cs, telling them shave communities have lost much faith in them and also now lately the harts, and that I would prefer to just get a refund for mine which has barely been used even once.

(Rayclem, on closer look, if I zoom in on my pictures, I can actually see microchips, and just an uneven not refined smooth edge. I might have not cut myself coz I did a decent lather and only tried with super small areas and didn't use long strokes. So any tugging and I stopped and went very light and easy. Any more serious strokes and I might have cut myself.)

I'm trying to check with 1-2 guys on their estimated cost to refurb and properly finish this hart to make it a proper brand new the way it's supposed to be. Might be cheaper than buying a new one altogether.
Might not get such a nice scale or maybe just tweak and reuse the walnut one I have from cs.

Otherwise I'm thinking I could sell this one barely used, and see if any pros out there would buy it with me taking a small loss, (especially since I got it at a good discounted price anyway buy if the discounts are semi permanent and still there then that becomes a moot point. Lol).
I think in the hands of a pro it could still be able to be salvaged or reground and a good workable bevel and edge finish put on it plus a nice scale to be worth more more than it is now in its current state?

 

[maboroshi]

Uploading more pictures for easy reference
You can also see the washer pin has chipped wood Around it on the scale.
Zoom in and I guess the edge problems show.

 

[Acmemfg]

I have no words......

 

[maboroshi]

Oh gosh. That bad huh.

 

[RayClem]

I started a thread on another shaving site about my Hart. Some of the experienced honemeisters on the forum chimed in with their experience honing Hart blades. The synopsis goes something like this:

In the first six months of operation, Hart was learning what they were doing and they had lot of quality issues.
Then they got much better and put out some really nice razors that would take and hold an edge.
In the past several months quality has gone downhill.

Hart is now trying to emphasize their custom line of razors. I hope they are paying more attention to the quality of the tempering, grinds, scales, etc. on these custom razors than they seem to be with the standard line.

 

[maboroshi]

Thanks for shedding light on all the finer details of the latest changes with hart and all.

Sad really, that a promising brand with good quality and doing good stuff, would go down thus slippery slope.
The few experienced guys and pros I showed the photos to told me that is really horrible, and that I should try returning it.

I might have a kind soul willing to help me fix up this hart of mine.

But then that brings me to one worry.
With this slip in quality and workmanship of the recent harts, has there heat treat and steel tempering been affected generally as well? So are these bad harts now made of more inferior O1 steel as compared to their best razors? Coz if that was the case, then even if it were reground by an expert, and a new bevel and edge our on it, then it's edge smoothness and refinement taking and edge holding would most certainly suffer from having a lousy steel used in the first place.

So if that were the case then a return would be the best option.
I am awaiting feedback and reply from cs to my email. Will keep you guys posted.

But if the base O1 tool steel has still been done using the same formulas as when they built their best razors, with heat treat still essentially the same so the same blanks still being the raw material of their bad straights now.... Then a touching up and regrind would essentially solve the final workmanship problems they have seriously having now.

Interesting on that custom bit... So they are doing crappy mass produced stuff under / for cs and tgn.... And under their own brand and more controlled quality selling customs?
Or still one and the same still under tgn?

 

[Acmemfg]

My experience...The "Custom" or "Artisan" line of Hart razors is closely akin to putting lipstick on a pig. Allegedly...The same guys who make the regular line of Harts pick up a few of the same blanks from the supplier and perhaps church up the shank, slap on some different scales, or grind a different point on the end. They do this in addition to their regular grind (pun intended). But if you study carefully, you can't help but see the similarities.
I owned one of these "Artisan" series razors once...6/8 French point. Less said about it the better

 

[RayClem]

It is understandable that there would be quality issues in the first few months after starting up a new factory. There is always a learning curve. After that startup period, Hart produced some decent razors by most reports. I am sure the craftsmen still could if that is what the management wants.

Classic Shaving owned Hart Steel from its conception. Classic Shaving and its Hart Steel subsidiary once had a good reputation in the marketplace.

Classic Shaving and Hart Steel were acquired by The Grooming Network in August, 2016. A few months later, we have poor quality Hart razors showing up in the marketplace. Is this merely a coincidence? You can come to your own conclusion.

 

[jeffus]

I bought two Harts during the sale, along with another razor that was on sale. Of those three razors only one of the Harts was of acceptable quality. $450 for one acceptable razor? I think not.

 

[nobie381]

I saw the Hart sale as well but the price seemed to good to be true. For a new SR shaver sounds like it is. I will stick with Wacker, Aust, Stark, PRC and BRW so I know what I am getting.

 

[Steve56]

I don't think the price is too good to be true, I've been looking at the images and those are some rough looking razors. I would suggest that maybe they are overpriced.

Cheers, Steve

 

[Lmarkow]

I agree with Steve. These current razors look terrible in these pics. These are not "Hart" razors, imo.

 

[maboroshi]

And after sending Classic shaving an email or two regarding the hart, mentioning the issues and problems I have with it and just being totally unsatisfied with the quality and finish of that razor, asking for a refund, this is all they come back with :

We will not be offering you a refund. However, if you would like to ship the razor to us, we will fix and any damages done by our company. We will sharpen the razors and inspect the other imperfections. As far as the chipped scales, they were shipped separately, and are very much inspected before they are shipped. We will not cover the damages done by the installation of the scales. We are looking forward to the arrival of the razor and assuring that it has a Shave Ready edge for you.


No way am I even bothered to send the hart back to them.

What a horrible shopping experience. I really feel like I just got ripped off by them to pay good money for a super inferior product. On the pretext and them luring me in with that "sale".
Any custom razor buy direct from one of the good guys would have been money better spent then on what these guys have on offer.
Very sad as well what they have done to a previously good company and makers such as hart.

And never ever will I deal with them ever again.