what type of glycerin is used in most of the creams & soaps theses day? is it animal or vegetable based glycerin 
glycerin in the creams & soaps...
- Thread starter usman_a
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A lot of glycerin nowadays comes as a by-product of biodiesel production and is thus "vegetable" glycerin. However, there is no clear way of knowing. Some companies state explicitly if their products contain vegetable-derived glycerin. For all others, you will have to contact them directly.
If your concern is the use of animal by-products, make sure you are not only asking about the glycerin in the products.
Best - MM
If your concern is the use of animal by-products, make sure you are not only asking about the glycerin in the products.
Best - MM
Do they add glycerin to soap or is it a byproduct of saponification?
I was under the impression that it was a byproduct and that in commercially made soaps, a large amount of it was actually removed to sell as a cosmetic additive.
I would be very interested in knowing the truth here if we have any resident experts.
I was under the impression that it was a byproduct and that in commercially made soaps, a large amount of it was actually removed to sell as a cosmetic additive.
I would be very interested in knowing the truth here if we have any resident experts.
I use avocado cucumber glycerin - a vegetable glycerin - what I buy is specifically processed to be used in soap.
"I was under the impression that it was a byproduct and that in commercially made soaps, a large amount of it was actually removed to sell as a cosmetic additive." This is also a true statement. Or they just toss it, I guess - those would be your more detergant soaps.
(Sorry Kyle, I know I didn't do the quote thingy right)
Oh, and I'm no expert, that is just as I understand it.....
and I'm betting that Mama Bear or SCSue would have a better explanation - they are a lot better at explaining the processes then I will ever be.....so hopefully, one of them will happen along....
"I was under the impression that it was a byproduct and that in commercially made soaps, a large amount of it was actually removed to sell as a cosmetic additive." This is also a true statement. Or they just toss it, I guess - those would be your more detergant soaps.
(Sorry Kyle, I know I didn't do the quote thingy right)
Oh, and I'm no expert, that is just as I understand it.....
and I'm betting that Mama Bear or SCSue would have a better explanation - they are a lot better at explaining the processes then I will ever be.....so hopefully, one of them will happen along....
Susie,
So is glycerin added to CP and triple milled soaps?
So is glycerin added to CP and triple milled soaps?
I had to look that one up on Google, LOL. I use a melt & pour glycerine base to start and I know there is glycerine in that.
From what I'm seeing the CP does not remove the glycerine - so it is still in there - I took this information from a CP vendor - I did not write this myself
"One primary difference is the glycerin content. Glycerin is a skin-loving humectant which is a by-product of soapmaking. When oils and lye are mixed together, they result in a new chemical which we call soap as well as a by-product we call glycerin (click here for an article on "What is Glycerin" if you need more information). In handcrafted soapmaking, the extra glycerin is left in the soap. Commercial soapmakers use a process called "salting out" to remove the glycerin from their soap stock. They do this for many reasons. First, glycerin is an expensive and useful product. Commercial soapmakers can make good money by removing it from soap (which people like to pay very little for) and putting it into their lotions and creams (which people will pay more for), or by reselling it to other industries which use glycerin (candy makers, etc.). Also, commercial soapmakers have developed processes for making soap which require that the soap stock be ground up, milled, and otherwise manipulated. They need their soap base to be fairly "plastic" and to move easily through their equipment. Extra glycerin makes the soap too sticky to do this. (By the way, commercial soapmakers can skip this process entirely by starting their soapmaking process with the acid components of oils such as stearic acid and palmitic acid rather than working with the full oil. These acids do not result in excess glycerin in the soap base). "
Okay, now I'm looking up the triple milled soap - looks like the glycerine is removed here is the article I copied
"French Milled Soap - (or triple milled soap) Is a commercial process where soap (typically made from synthetic detergents) is made, dried into crystals then rolled three or more times through steel rollers. This repeated milling crushes the crystals turning them into a fine paste. This paste is then pressed and formed into bars. Removing glycerin from the soap is necessary to keep the soap from being too sticky and adhering to the rollers. French/Triple milled soap means that all soap bars will be identical with no variations in color and texture. True milled soap is impossible to do if you are not a commercial manufacturer with the steel rollers."
I hope that is helpful and not just too much information......
From what I'm seeing the CP does not remove the glycerine - so it is still in there - I took this information from a CP vendor - I did not write this myself
"One primary difference is the glycerin content. Glycerin is a skin-loving humectant which is a by-product of soapmaking. When oils and lye are mixed together, they result in a new chemical which we call soap as well as a by-product we call glycerin (click here for an article on "What is Glycerin" if you need more information). In handcrafted soapmaking, the extra glycerin is left in the soap. Commercial soapmakers use a process called "salting out" to remove the glycerin from their soap stock. They do this for many reasons. First, glycerin is an expensive and useful product. Commercial soapmakers can make good money by removing it from soap (which people like to pay very little for) and putting it into their lotions and creams (which people will pay more for), or by reselling it to other industries which use glycerin (candy makers, etc.). Also, commercial soapmakers have developed processes for making soap which require that the soap stock be ground up, milled, and otherwise manipulated. They need their soap base to be fairly "plastic" and to move easily through their equipment. Extra glycerin makes the soap too sticky to do this. (By the way, commercial soapmakers can skip this process entirely by starting their soapmaking process with the acid components of oils such as stearic acid and palmitic acid rather than working with the full oil. These acids do not result in excess glycerin in the soap base). "
Okay, now I'm looking up the triple milled soap - looks like the glycerine is removed here is the article I copied
"French Milled Soap - (or triple milled soap) Is a commercial process where soap (typically made from synthetic detergents) is made, dried into crystals then rolled three or more times through steel rollers. This repeated milling crushes the crystals turning them into a fine paste. This paste is then pressed and formed into bars. Removing glycerin from the soap is necessary to keep the soap from being too sticky and adhering to the rollers. French/Triple milled soap means that all soap bars will be identical with no variations in color and texture. True milled soap is impossible to do if you are not a commercial manufacturer with the steel rollers."
I hope that is helpful and not just too much information......
Good stuff. That verified everything that I believed to be true about those two kinds of soaps.
I know little to nothing about melt & pour soaps and had no idea that glycerin was added to them.
I guess a partial answer to the original question then would be that if you are using a CP or triple milled soap, the type of glycerin in it is based on the fats/oils that are used to make the soap.
Not to overstate the obvious, but:
vegetable oils = vegetable based glycerin
tallow or animal fats = animal based glycerin
I know little to nothing about melt & pour soaps and had no idea that glycerin was added to them.
I guess a partial answer to the original question then would be that if you are using a CP or triple milled soap, the type of glycerin in it is based on the fats/oils that are used to make the soap.
Not to overstate the obvious, but:
vegetable oils = vegetable based glycerin
tallow or animal fats = animal based glycerin
No expert here but glycerin is a by-product of 'real' soap made by saponifying fats ( either veggie or animal fat ) and lye. Cold Process soap is wonderful on skin because the natural glycerin has not been removed. The popular name brand bar soaps you buy at the grocery store are mostly detergent bars.
After 'trace' the home soaper pours CP soap into molds or a block cutter to set for 24 hours and then it's cut into bars. After that, the bars cure for a few weeks until fully saponified--the lye and fats have became ph friendly soap. Heat will speed up the process, so there is also Hot Process and 'In The Mold Hot Process' soap. With ITMHP, the soap can be used the next day if desired but I think a cure time is necessary although it's of shorter duration.
[SIZE=-1]When I or another soapmaker would pour a traced batch in the mold, a commercial soapmaker adds salt. Salt curdles the soap and it floats to the top. The top is skimmed, (which is the soap), what's left is glycerin. The glycerin then goes thru a cleaning proces and is distilled somehow. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]I don't know what 'they' do with the curdled soap. Maybe that's where floating Ivory comes from? (just kidding). I have added baking soda to CP soap at trace and it floats. [/SIZE]
Sue
After 'trace' the home soaper pours CP soap into molds or a block cutter to set for 24 hours and then it's cut into bars. After that, the bars cure for a few weeks until fully saponified--the lye and fats have became ph friendly soap. Heat will speed up the process, so there is also Hot Process and 'In The Mold Hot Process' soap. With ITMHP, the soap can be used the next day if desired but I think a cure time is necessary although it's of shorter duration.
[SIZE=-1]When I or another soapmaker would pour a traced batch in the mold, a commercial soapmaker adds salt. Salt curdles the soap and it floats to the top. The top is skimmed, (which is the soap), what's left is glycerin. The glycerin then goes thru a cleaning proces and is distilled somehow. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1]I don't know what 'they' do with the curdled soap. Maybe that's where floating Ivory comes from? (just kidding). I have added baking soda to CP soap at trace and it floats. [/SIZE]
Sue
I'd bet on an industrial scale they are working with soaps and ingredients stripped of glycerin. If they put any glycerin or moisturizers in the soap, they add it back later.
In biodiesel production, the esterfication process makes lots of glycerin- all of it pure waste, only a few operations burn the glycerin as a fuel- usually low scale ones. So glycerin prices are decreasing alot as more waste glycerin is created. Unlike soap you can't leave it in the biodiesel as it will destroy fuel pumps in no time, turning into gummy deposits and plastics under the extreme pressures in a diesel fuel pump. What is making some soapmakers unhappy about the process is that their excess glycerin is now worth much less.
In biodiesel production, the esterfication process makes lots of glycerin- all of it pure waste, only a few operations burn the glycerin as a fuel- usually low scale ones. So glycerin prices are decreasing alot as more waste glycerin is created. Unlike soap you can't leave it in the biodiesel as it will destroy fuel pumps in no time, turning into gummy deposits and plastics under the extreme pressures in a diesel fuel pump. What is making some soapmakers unhappy about the process is that their excess glycerin is now worth much less.
More important than the origin of the glycerine is the purity. If your soap or cream manufacturer uses either USP or "Food Grade" material (the latter is used in candy, for example, there will be no problem. Until a few years ago, there was a large supply of totally synthetic glycerine, made from epichlorohydrin. Most of this was food grade stuff, totally safe for soaps and cosmetics.
Daedalus
Daedalus
If someone discovered glycerin and all of it's uses today it would be huge news. Just a couple of the many uses: nitroglycerin as in 'ka-boom', and at the first signs of an MI; it's used in foods, and as a sweetener.
Sue
Sue
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- #12
can the synthetic stuff cause probelms when it comes to shaving??
i was thinking of asking my fav shaving soap/cream makers if they have any animal by-products in their products and such the first thing came into mind was glycerin.
i was thinking of asking my fav shaving soap/cream makers if they have any animal by-products in their products and such the first thing came into mind was glycerin.
