Gillette Single Rings with British Patent Numbers

[romsitsa]

A shot in the dark, did any of you get this beauty? If yes, what's the date code on the shipper? The razor is a US C serial from 1915.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232089502359?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

thanks

Adam

 

[Useless shaver]

A shot in the dark, did any of you get this beauty? If yes, what's the date code on the shipper? The razor is a US C serial from 1915.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/232089502359?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT

thanks

Adam

Can't say why but apparently I missed your post, Adam... and I have just seen it when I was about to post my new acquisition... which happens to be THAT razor!!!! Life is weird... and your shot was accurate!

The razor has that number C741839 on the upper side of the baseplate, plus the PAT. NOV 15.04 on the outer barrel, above the knob.
There's waht might be a G-in-D on the baseplate (down side), but I still have to clean it up.

Sadly, the shipper has no date code at all... Pity.

So, this one was made in the USA for the English market, right? The case matches it, right? The case was made in England or for the English market, right?

The case is in excellent condition, with the patent information as you can see. Especialy remarkable is the Gillete diamond logo (known the world over) sewn into the cloth on the lid.

Here you have for your visual pleasure...

 

[romsitsa]

You know the real interesring part was when I asked the seller about the case, he replied he can't check it as it's on its way to Spain. I had some hopes you will be the new owner...
First of all, nice catch, secondly I'm a bit confused. It looks like Gillette used the British patents on all cases shipped to England, now the question is why did they differentiate razors with Brit.Pat., Pat.Nov. and Pat.Nov....N coding?
I suspect US patented razors were accounted by the US company, the others by the British affiliate. So I still tend to belive that Pat.Nov....N razors were substitutes for British manufactured razors. Maybe they had shortages and needed a helping hand to fulfil orders or they ceased production and tried to trick British patent law, who knows.

Thank you again for the details Juan.

Adam

 

[Matlock]

I have come to this thread rather late and the thought of ploughing through 32 pages is rather off putting. I have a rather nice example which is boxed in a nice (although rather tired) leather box with the old Gillette script inside the lid. The lid top has a gold crest which is a little worn. This reads "CHAS................, 17 BILLITER STREET. E.C. BRANCHES THROUGHOUT THE CITY." The razor has BR.PAT.No28763 then CF 02. (the 0 could be a reversed C). The number stamped on the shaft is A 20216 which doesn't tie in with the numbering system, could be a bad punch but all the other numbers seem sharp. I will try to post some photos later today.

 

[romsitsa]

I have come to this thread rather late and the thought of ploughing through 32 pages is rather off putting. I have a rather nice example which is boxed in a nice (although rather tired) leather box with the old Gillette script inside the lid. The lid top has a gold crest which is a little worn. This reads "CHAS................, 17 BILLITER STREET. E.C. BRANCHES THROUGHOUT THE CITY." The razor has BR.PAT.No28763 then CF 02. (the 0 could be a reversed C). The number stamped on the shaft is A 20216 which doesn't tie in with the numbering system, could be a bad punch but all the other numbers seem sharp. I will try to post some photos later today.

Hello,

this sounds like a US Single ring manufactured for the British market in 1908, before the British factory opened. "Chas" could be Chas Clements, a straight razor manufacturer from Sheffield, but it should have ceased business before 1908?
CF 02 is of 02, standing for patent number 28763 from year 1902.
Although not a British Sr, it looks like a unique set, would be nice to see some photos (or it never happened ).

Adam

 

[Matlock]

Hello,

this sounds like a US Single ring manufactured for the British market in 1908, before the British factory opened. "Chas" could be Chas Clements, a straight razor manufacturer from Sheffield, but it should have ceased business before 1908?
CF 02 is of 02, standing for patent number 28763 from year 1902.
Although not a British Sr, it looks like a unique set, would be nice to see some photos (or it never happened ).

Adam

Thanks for that Adam. Yes I believe it was Chas Clements. Photos to follow later today.

 

[Matlock]

As promised. Sadly the number did not come out very well as I have no close up facility here at the moment.

 

[romsitsa]

Hello Matlock,

thank you for the photos, it's a very nice early US Single ring, does the bottom of the case have the legal notice?

Off topic:
I'm pretty sure it's Chas Clements. Pic from ebay.

Adam

 

[Matlock]

Hello Matlock,

thank you for the photos, it's a very nice early US Single ring, does the bottom of the case have the legal notice?

Off topic:
I'm pretty sure it's Chas Clements. Pic from ebay.


Adam

Yes that is exactly the same crest so it is Chas Clements. The bottom of the case is plain leather. No lettering.
Peter.

 

[Useless shaver]

You know the real interesring part was when I asked the seller about the case, he replied he can't check it as it's on its way to Spain. I had some hopes you will be the new owner...
First of all, nice catch, secondly I'm a bit confused. It looks like Gillette used the British patents on all cases shipped to England, now the question is why did they differentiate razors with Brit.Pat., Pat.Nov. and Pat.Nov....N coding?
I suspect US patented razors were accounted by the US company, the others by the British affiliate. So I still tend to belive that Pat.Nov....N razors were substitutes for British manufactured razors. Maybe they had shortages and needed a helping hand to fulfil orders or they ceased production and tried to trick British patent law, who knows.

Thank you again for the details Juan.

Adam

Thanks to you, Adam.

It's really curious you asked and what the seller responded...

Yes, your theory makes sense IMHO, that or a more complicated (unlikely?) explanation... Who knows, really...

I am trying to help find out 'what really hapened'... by buying them all...

 

[Useless shaver]

As promised. Sadly the number did not come out very well as I have no close up facility here at the moment.
View attachment 694891View attachment 694892View attachment 694893View attachment 694894

That is a very nice and early example indeed. Thanks for the photos.

Have you ever shaved with it?

 

[Matlock]

"Chas" could be Chas Clements, a straight razor manufacturer from Sheffield, but it should have ceased business before 1908?

Adam

I have done a bit of research and Chas Clements were still in business in 1911.

Peter.

 

[romsitsa]

Hello,

found an empty 460 case. The interesting part, it has the large Gillette logo on the bottom and the British patent nr. in the rectangle, but it only has GREAT BRITAIN PATENT No 28763, not the usual 28763-02 and the Reg. nr. is also missing.

The liner has the printed line logo.



Adam

 

[romsitsa]

Hmmm. Compared the new box with a patent numbered British 460. The KCG signature and patent box layout is different and the patent nr. case is taller by a good 3 mm.

The beaten up case is the new one.



Adam

 

[Useless shaver]

Adam, that is a very interesting case. Now we'll have to speculate again...

Anyway, congratulations, my friend!

 

[romsitsa]

Thank you Juan. There is something interesting with this case, as there is a MiUSA marked E series razor on Achims site in the same case.

http://www.mr-razor.com/Rasierer/Old Type/1917 Old Type 460-B.JPG

Adam

 

[Buick48]

I purchased this online late last year. It is serial number E133215. It has the G inside the D export mark on the inside of the razor comb.

 

[Buick48]

Actually, the G inside of a square.....

 

[romsitsa]

Hello Buick, very nice set, I'm also after a latched 460 case, it's the best looking, imho. Could you give some details on the razors markings? Where is the serial nr. and patent located and what is the patent nr.? Brit.Pat.No. 28763-02 or Pat.Nov.15.04. or maybe Pat.Nov.15.04.N?

thanks

Adam

 

[Buick48]

Adam ~
I will be glad to give you this information, and photos. However I am out of town this week,
and will not have access to the razor until I return.

Cheers,
Kevin