23 different British Gillette Aristocrat sets - a partial historic overview and my collector’s journey (pics galore)

[Dyllern]

I haven't really experienced any differences between the 1.gen razors which has always made sense to me considering the similar head geometry at least on the outside of the heads, but maybe the eg. blade exposure is different. I guess I will have to do a round of tests in the near future and likewise compare with the 'Popular'-models. Although the difference seems to lie in the total weight considering the thinner handle. 'Popular'-razors weighing about 61g it seems.

That being said the 1.gen razor came in quite a few versions through the years which makes sense in terms of transitioning periods.

What makes the weight difference is the construction of the t-bar or at least a big part of it. The ones weighing 76-77g have a t-bar like on the first picture which is what you are calling low bolt join. The high bolt join is like on the second picture:



But that is just one of the traits. The total number of different versions depends on how many of the following traits gets considered:

1) Low bolt join vs high bolt join
2) Wings or no wings
3) Silver, Rhodium or Gold plating
4) Writing or no writing on the two bands on the handle
5) Smooth bands versions came with a wide top band and a less wide top band shown here:



6) Different cases
7) Razor sets for the French market



-The same could be said about the 'Popular' models where most of the traits listed above are relevant too.

 

[creamgravy]

Ah perfect, thanks for the pics and terminology!
So that's the double rivet T bar design to help stop head tilt when opening/closing (1938 Popular owners will know what I mean... it's a design feature not a bug! )

I guess chronology for tto design is better described like this then (dates from Aristocrat/Popular ads)

1936: Straight T-bar
1938: Winged T-bar
1939: Winged T-bar with double rivets

5) Smooth bands versions came with a wide top band and a less wide top band shown here:

Oh lovely, that's unique knurling on the right.

 

[Dyllern]

It's one of my absolute favourite vintage razors, so I have spent quite a lot of time researching the different variations and new sets actually shows up from time to time. Although it not being another variation of the razor, but only a different kind of case than the ones we are already aware of it's still a bit exciting. At least to me

So that's the double rivet T bar design to help stop head tilt when opening/closing (1938 Popular owners will know what I mean... it's a design feature not a bug! )

Yes the double rivet t-bar design was one of the major improvements Gillette made going forward from the 1.gen TTO razors to the 2.gen TTO razors on both the English and American models. Just like Matt is describing in the video. The 1934 US 'Aristocrat' obviously being the first example of this issue since it was the first TTO by Gillette.

I guess chronology for tto design is better described like this then (dates from Aristocrat/Popular ads)

1936: Straight T-bar
1938: Winged T-bar
1939: Winged T-bar with double rivets

Yes that is a more precise description in my opinion. Your post from earlier actually made me think about especially the differences about the 'Popular'-razors because all my four 'Popular'-sets consists of razors of the later design with double rivets and the long rod for the bottom screw.

Maybe I just misunderstood your description, but are you sure that you have seen a 'Popular'-razor with the single rivet construction t-bar?

I have just never seen such a specimen in person or eg. pictures online of a specimen that has been taken apart...

 

[creamgravy]

are you sure that you have seen a 'Popular'-razor with the single rivet construction t-bar?

I have just never seen such a specimen in person or eg. pictures online of a specimen that has been taken apart...

38 Populars get crazy tilt without the crats door opening hooks! (I've been using this one regularly for the last 10 years)

 

[Dyllern]

That does indeed look like a classic 1-rivet construction problem. Can you try taking a picture like this:

the crats door opening hooks

Can you try marking those on a picture? Just so I for sure know what you are referring to.

 

[creamgravy]

That does indeed look like a classic 1-rivet construction problem. Can you try taking a picture like this:

Yeah, I'm sure they received a few complaints about it. Maybe that's why the 1939 model got fancy knurling? Gillette wanted to show they fixed the problem

1938 Popular screw.

Can you try marking those on a picture?

Populars didn't get the internal 'hooks' (or hinge mechanism) for automatically opening the doors, they're floppy when opened. This overexaggerates the tilt problem as there's nothing keeping the corner hinges in the base plate.

vs Aristocrat.

 

[Dyllern]

Thanks for the pictures I see what you mean

In regards to the screw that seems to be the security screw that "normally" is combined with the 2 rivets construction and a long rod. Which is why it would surprise me a bit if only one rivet is present on eg. your specimen, but so far that seems to be the case.

I have taken a lot of 1.gen 'Aristocrat'-razors apart and also a few 'Popular'-razors, but sadly that specimen on the picture isn't mine

Have you tried to disassemble these razors before?

If not you will need to file down a screwdriver to make two legs or be in posession of a handle that can mount bits in order to remove the security screw. Furthermore the thread is counterclockwise, so you need to turn it right in order to loosen it.

 

[creamgravy]

I haven't tried taking it apart yet, might give it a go in the future and post pics. Thanks for the advice!

You can clearly see the single rivet T-bar with all 1938 Populars (standard knurling) on sites like Mr razor, with the '39 (barber pole knurling) with the double rivet design.

Seems like a major change between 1938 and 1939 models that's gone under the radar (Aristocrat and Popular) and gives us an easy way to date them. US made razors didn't use the double rivet design until 1940?

 

[Dyllern]

I haven't tried taking it apart yet, might give it a go in the future and post pics. Thanks for the advice!

That would be great, so we can confirm our theory. That being said I will do my best to acquire a 38' version in the meantime, so I can take one apart myself

You can clearly see the single rivet T-bar with all 1938 Populars (standard knurling) on sites like Mr razor, with the '39 (barber pole knurling) with the double rivet design.

Yup that seems to be the signs so far

Seems like a major change between 1938 and 1939 models that's gone under the radar (Aristocrat and Popular) and gives us an easy way to date them. US made razors didn't use the double rivet design until 1940?

So it seems, but it makes good sense that the English department were a couple of years ahead. The engineers in England were just better than the ones in US

 

[creamgravy]

Musings on the OC Aristocrat timeline.

1936 Aristocrat range. Razor ID: Straight T-bar, ~77g.
Aristocrat 'one piece' razor set (15/-) Nickel plated brass case, silver plated razor.
No 2 set (30/-) Traveller deluxe silver. Silver plated razor.
No 3 set (35/-) Traveller deluxe gold. Gold plated razor.

1938 Aristocrat range. Razor ID: Winged T-bar, ~77g.
No 14 set (7/6) Leather case with one blade sheath, rhodium plated razor. (Bargain price! Getting rid of old Criterion cases? Bet these flew off the shelves!)
No 15 set (15/-) Nickel plated brass case, rhodium plated razor. (Call 15 because of the price? )
No 19 set (21/-) Pigskin case with two gold plated blade sheaths, gold plated razor.
No 2 set (30/-) Traveller deluxe silver. Rhodium plated razor.
No 3 set (35/-) Traveller deluxe gold. Gold plated razor.

-Case logo changes from the classic Gillette diamond to 'Gillette safety razor' text in late 1938. (Not the best to ID razors as new sets can come in older cases, although it might be useful with limited pics)


1939-1941 Aristocrat range. Razor ID: Winged T-bar with new double rivet TTO mechanism, ~72g.
No 15 set (15/-) Nickel plated brass case, rhodium plated razor.
No 19 set (21/-) Pigskin case with two gold plated blade sheaths, gold plated razor.
No 20 set (15/-) Pigskin case with two plated blade sheaths, rhodium plated razor (can't find the price but assume its 15/-?)
No 2 set (30/-) Traveller deluxe silver. Rhodium plated razor.
No 3 set (35/-) Traveller deluxe gold. Gold plated razor.

-Patent no 430.030 starts to replace 400.621 on the baseplate for later razors (1940?) Does 400.621 cover the older TTO design and becomes obsolete? Maybe this model deserves the 2nd gen title?
-No 19 and 20 can have a different button/latch case with different colour leathers (dark brown, blue, anymore?)
-Do ~1941 razors have no engravings on the handle as the UK start to try and match new US Aristocrat? (see no.3 set from mr razor)


1945-1947 Aristocrat range. Razor ID: Winged T-bar with double rivet, extended handle knurling with no engraving*, ~74g.
No 15 set (29/-) Nickel plated brass case with purple or red interior, rhodium plated razor. (A few come with US Aristocrat style handle knurling, market testing?)
No 20 set (29/-) Pigskin case with two blade sheaths, rhodium plated razor. (Australia only?)

*Same handle as the 1948 solid guard bar Aristocrat.

-Baseplates. There seems to be two slightly different baseplates, one with thinner teeth that slope down a tiny bit more. (Giving it more blade feel/aggression) It's hard to see in pics online but most seem to have the thicker teeth, esp later models? Any ideas guys? I still like to think it's Slough vs Brentford factories...
Not the best pic but you get the idea (both 1938 razors)

 

[KQY61]

Hi,

Wow. Just wow. I have only one Crat, a 1934, and it's American, not British. And not pretty any more, so I won't post a pic and spoil the thread.

Stan

 

[Dyllern]

I think it's impossible for us to get to the bottom of this because we have so limited sources, but I think your overview at least shows a good amount of all the small details that differed through the years these razors got produced.

That being said I think one of the only aspects we can say for sure is that the construction of the 1.gen British 'Aristocrat' evolved over the years in terms of the rod, rivet, engraving on handle etc.

What cases were used when and for which specific sub generation(which we are discussing here) doesn't seem to be so obvious because sets with newer cases and older razors(model wise) have been found and the opposite too where older generation cases have been combined with newer razors.

Here are a few interesting specimens:

Special #15 or maybe #19



Special #20 or maybe #15



Aftermarket case from a high end retailer