Gillette Canada serial numbers

[Hobgoblin]

I just picked up a Canadian Pocket Edition Floral Case and am having difficulty trying to date the set. It has no Gillette markings, no diamond logo, a serial number PC 19666 and a solid handle with no knurling on the ball end. It has the four rivet case. I believe that it is an early set manufactured in Montreal with an ABC handle, but can not nail it down to a year. Anyone have any ideas? View attachment 858452 View attachment 858453 View attachment 858454 View attachment 858455 View attachment 858456

I have a PC serial # smooth ball end with in the serial # PC 003211 that came in a Latch case and I figure it is a 1909. I also have a smooth handle with a smooth ball end that is like the one on the Mr Razor site and is in the PC 07000 series so I figure late 1910 based on Mr Razor's estimate of the one he has displayed. With a 4 rivet case and the serial number PC 19666 I'll guess mid to late 1911?

Glenn

 

[romsitsa]

Hello Glenn,

do you have a theory on this razor of yours?
"- Old Type pocket edition case with no patent info on case - Gillette diamond on bottom/left of base plate - serial #938410"

Gillette Old types became Old types after the original patents expired, but I thought they didn't use serial numbers after that date?

Adam

 

[Hobgoblin]

Hello Glenn,

do you have a theory on this razor of yours?
"- Old Type pocket edition case with no patent info on case - Gillette diamond on bottom/left of base plate - serial #938410"

Gillette Old types became Old types after the original patents expired, but I thought they didn't use serial numbers after that date?

Adam

Hi Adam

The set could be a mismatch, I saw one on eBay recently that had the same "Old Type" case and the razor had a serial # in the 900,000 series close to my razor . Perhaps they had some older razors in stock and put them into the post 1921 cases, as we see in other sets Gillette didn't like to waste any inventory.

Glenn

 

[Ramathorn]

@Hobgoblin, do you know when the Gillette diamond logo would appear on the Pocket Editions?

 

[Buick48]

Gillette felt firmly that in order to protect their razor from imitations, they needed to place their trademark on each razor. They experimented with their logo from late 1909 until early 1910, intermittently placing it on the right underside of the razor's comb/guard as they made adjustments to the dies. Collectors and historians believe that due to the Diamond and Arrow logo's design possessing too fine a line thickness; that the thin raised image on the die plates, used in the stamping process, caused the dies to wear out quickly, resulting in a poorly struck logo. This can be substantiated in the quality and clarity of the logo, as seen on the existing few razors from this period. For this reason, the logo was not continuously used in the manufacture of the razors, but rather sporadically after a series of corrections and adjustments were made to the dies.

At some point, in 1915, the dies for the Gillette Diamond and Arrow Logo finally met with the Gillette management's approval, and were instituted on all razor production thereafter.

Cheers,
Kevin

 

[Ramathorn]

Thanks Kevin. Thats exactly what I wanted to know.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Gillette felt firmly that in order to protect their razor from imitations, they needed to place their trademark on each razor. They experimented with their logo from late 1909 until early 1910, intermittently placing it on the right underside of the razor's comb/guard as they made adjustments to the dies. Collectors and historians believe that due to the Diamond and Arrow logo's design possessing too fine a line thickness; that the thin raised image on the die plates, used in the stamping process, caused the dies to wear out quickly, resulting in a poorly struck logo. This can be substantiated in the quality and clarity of the logo, as seen on the existing few razors from this period. For this reason, the logo was not continuously used in the manufacture of the razors, but rather sporadically after a series of corrections and adjustments were made to the dies.

At some point, in 1915, the dies for the Gillette Diamond and Arrow Logo finally met with the Gillette management's approval, and were instituted on all razor production thereafter.

Cheers,
Kevin

Hi Kevin

In 1915 did Gillette keep the Diamond logo on the right hand side and not include the "Made In " for a period of time? Would the logo have switched to the left when they included the "Made In" on the base plate and was this in 1916? I have a Canadian with the Diamond logo on the right and the "Made in Canada " on the left and was wondering if I could use this to help date the razor

Glenn

 

[Buick48]

Glenn ~
With the U.S. entry into World War I, it was a political issue....

Razors made during the 1916 to 1917 transitional period have the large version Gillette Diamond and Arrow Logo, which was introduced the previous year. This will be found on the right-hand side of the bottom of the razor's comb/guard. Those sets that were produced after mid 1917, have the Gillette Diamond and Arrow Logo, which was moved to the left side of the comb/guard's bottom, to allow for the adding of the words "Made In U.S.A." on the right.

I assume that the Canadian sets did likewise....

Cheers,
Kevin

 

[MVD1]

Glenn ~
With the U.S. entry into World War I, it was a political issue....

Razors made during the 1916 to 1917 transitional period have the large version Gillette Diamond and Arrow Logo, which was introduced the previous year. This will be found on the right-hand side of the bottom of the razor's comb/guard. Those sets that were produced after mid 1917, have the Gillette Diamond and Arrow Logo, which was moved to the left side of the comb/guard's bottom, to allow for the adding of the words "Made In U.S.A." on the right.

I assume that the Canadian sets did likewise....

Cheers,
Kevin

Has anyone wondered if the arrow is tied into the history of the "broad arrow" or "crow's foot" mark that was long used to identify British military gear. The arrow appears differently in commonwealth countries which for Canada means it is inside the letter "C" as early as 1913. Nothing certain here, but perhaps Gillette was thinking along theses lines when choosing branding.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Picked up a Canadian Single Ring in a Standard Set Script case (1906-1908 ) it has the Canada Pat Mar 7,05 on the lower handle and has the serial # C47733 on the inner barrel , the case is in excellent shape as is the razor . I know that dating of the Canadian SRs is not an exact science but I'm guessing this is an early one maybe 1907? The Montreal plant started producing in 1906 so I doubt that they made over 47 thousand in the first 2 years so my guess is they started the serial numbers a higher number not with 1?

Glenn

 

[Buick48]

Glenn ~

The metal blade boxes made their appearance in 1908....
however, many people replaced their earlier, paperboard, ones with the metal cases.
Nice script case sets, especially Canadian ones, are hard to find.
Enjoy....

Kevin

 

[Useless shaver]

Picked up a Canadian Single Ring in a Standard Set Script case (1906-1908 ) it has the Canada Pat Mar 7,05 on the lower handle and has the serial # C47733 on the inner barrel , the case is in excellent shape as is the razor . I know that dating of the Canadian SRs is not an exact science but I'm guessing this is an early one maybe 1907? The Montreal plant started producing in 1906 so I doubt that they made over 47 thousand in the first 2 years so my guess is they started the serial numbers a higher number not with 1?


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Glenn

Veey, very nice, Glenn. Beautiful case and excellent razor.

 

[Hobgoblin]

Veey, very nice, Glenn. Beautiful case and excellent razor.

Thanks Juan Manuel , i relly enjoy the old Single Rings especially the Brits and Canadians

Glenn ~

The metal blade boxes made their appearance in 1908....
however, many people replaced their earlier, paperboard, ones with the metal cases.
Nice script case sets, especially Canadian ones, are hard to find.
Enjoy....

Kevin

Thanks Kevin , 1908 vintage sounds right

Glenn

 

[Hobgoblin]

Hello Glenn,

do you have a theory on this razor of yours?
"- Old Type pocket edition case with no patent info on case - Gillette diamond on bottom/left of base plate - serial #938410"

Gillette Old types became Old types after the original patents expired, but I thought they didn't use serial numbers after that date?

Adam

Hi Adam

This is the third Old Type Canadian set I've seen with a serial # razor , pics are from the listing on a popular auction site . Perhaps the Canadian Gillette factory was using up stock after the patent ran out .The blade holders look like they are from 1916-1918? Frankenset?

Glenn

 

[Buick48]

In mid 1921, Gillette ended production of the Pocket Edition razors, and replaced them with a new series of razors, which they named the "Old Type" Pocket Edition Razor. At this time, they discontinued issuing serial numbers to the lesser priced razors. However, as in the past, Gillette maintained their tradition of consuming any leftover parts inventory during the transition. As a result, a small quantity of the Old Type sets received razors with serial numbers. These razors had been manufactured for the now discontinued earlier Pocket Edition sets.

With the introduction of the New Improved line of razors, which were stamped "Pat. Jan 13, 1920/Other Pats. Pending"; and to help in the promotion of the New Improved razors, which were now introduced as being the top of the line Gillette razors, it was decided, by Gillette, to change the name of their previous series of razors, from "The Gillette Razor", to "The Old Type Gillette Razor". As mentioned the name "Old Type" was originally featured as a model of the later Gillette produced Pocket Edition Sets (with serial numbers, and made prior to mid-1921). The last of these original "The Gillette Razor" sets received serial number P679777, in May of 1921.

For several years, after May of 1921, the "Old Type" became the name of a lesser priced Gillette line. By 1925, it had became a model of Gillette's lowest priced "Brownie Line" razors. For almost ten years, these "Old Type" razors were produced under many different model names, the only difference being the case packaging, until their final production run ended in 1928 or 1929. Much confusion over the use of the term "Old Type" exists, because, just as they named "The Gillette Razor" a "Double or Single Ring" razor, many collectors have chosen to group all Single Ring razors, both Ball End and Standard, as being "Old Types"!

Cheers,
Kevin

 

[Useless shaver]

Thanks Juan Manuel , i relly enjoy the old Single Rings especially the Brits and Canadians

Agree. They're my favourite ones.

 

[FvL]

Last weekend I found this one in a local flea market. Still needs cleaning, but after finding this threat, I assume it to be Canadian, an can add my info:
Pocket Edition: Empire case, four rivets, no (patent) information on case. Razor with thin handle/smooth ball end, no branding or information on bottom plate, s/n PC 134865

 

[REV579]

I added the pic to the B&B/Elmerwood's #501144 razor. ( I cropped it to make it smaller) to the WIKI page

PC 63959

63959

Pocket

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Thin-handled ball end, no stamping on bottom of guard plate, ABC-style cap studs, punched-down collar, four-rivet plain case w/ patent numbers on bottom, Gillette diamond label missing

In this older post from 2013, a Canadian ABC Pocket Edition with the serial number of PC63959 is reference, along with at case that has patent Numbers. I have a Canadian ABC PE with the serial number PC63531...a number 428 lower than the above referenced razor, and patent Dates, also missing the label.

Has there been any dating insight to the Canadian Razors?

 

[mjclark]

Just cleaned up this Canadian Single Ring that’s been lying around for ages.
It’s got a big pressure crack in the handle and when it was reassembled the barrel was put on upside down (!) so the CAN.PAT script is at the top and inverted.
Serial # 269959 no letters.
So is this an early one?

 

[REV579]

Snappy! I’m not much help with the Canadian serial numbers. It is a large Diamond logo, which is characteristic of Transitional razors from 1916-1917 which have Large version Gillette Diamond and Arrow Logo on Rt Side. This logo which was introduced the previous year.
Only notes I have and it is more directed to the US Gillette razors.