Getting even (bevels)

[str8six]

There is a wealth of advice here on learning to hone and so I'm trying to follow it, most especially the burr method. For my first project I lucked into an inexpensive vintage on eBay, a plain "Geneva Cutlery Corp." stainless razor with very little hone wear, maybe even NOS, and some (I think) unimportant corrosion near the spine. Chose this over a GD because of the advice that the geometry issues with those would be frustrating starting out.

Holding my bevel setter in my hand I did around 50 laps on one side, starting with the edge away from me. Was slightly leading with the heel and mindful of not running into the hone with the shoulder. A firm pressure and ever so slightly torquing it such that I hoped there was even force on the edge and spine--and hoped that I wasn't bending it.

Result was... okay. Got the beginnings of a burr all along the edge. But I was dismayed to see that the bevel was a bit wider in the centre than the heel and faint at the toe. Am concerned that if I always did this I'd have a frown and so would my razor.

Switched to the other side and somehow this was harder--a couple of times despite my best efforts the shoulder somehow found its way up onto the hone. The resulting bevel was very wide at the toe. I could see how dragging the shoulder could cause that if I ignored it and kept going that way as it'd lift the heel, but apparently it happens very quickly? Or maybe something else is going on? At least the rest of the bevel is consistent on this side.

There is also a notable amount of wear on the spine near where I'd hit the shoulder (eg. it's twice as thick there). Is that likely to affect future honing? Briefly thought "I could put a little bit of tape..." but that might well overcompensate and squish the toe more.

I lapped my stone and checked that it's flat. Perhaps the razor is imperceptibly warped (this recent thread makes it sound not uncommon) and the faint toe on one side is very much related to the thick bevel on the other? Didn't occur to me until after polishing the edge (in a very improvised manner since my balsa-destined diamonds and finishing stone aren't here yet) that I should have used a sharpie to investigate. Aside from that and maybe lifting the heel a bit to lean on the faint toe, anything else I might want to try? Is the spine wear likely to throw anything out of wack? I'll try and get a picture but photographing this shiny thing is quite a challenge.

Oh, the shave? Brilliant. Did in two passes what the Dovo I had the vendor hone took three to do and was very obviously much sharper. Far closer to Feather blades I'm used to from DE. To the point that my first shave was kind of rough on the skin. Thought it might be the subpar finishing but my second shave on this edge (today, my seventh ever) was just excellent and I think it simply took practice adjusting to the sharpness. I sort of feel like I won a minor lottery here that this wobbly looking edge is so fit for its purpose.

 

[lightfoot]

Glad to hear that your honing is getting off the ground. If I were in your position with a razor with suspect geometry I would get it honed up well and just keep the edge shaving. Sounds like Slash’s Method with balsa is ideal because you’re loosing such a minuscule amount of steel per touchup. Then over time you’ll likely be able to develop a game plan for tricky razors.

 

[Dick peck]

Right on. I think the bevel will sometimes be what it will be. As in not completely even no matter what. I've tried to even out edges on eBay beaters. It's all learning. As soon as I think I'm a hone meister I run into a blade that won't listen to me. I think each blade acts a little different. Wait till you switch up stones or methods. Each change brings new challenges. The super cool part is that you hone your own blade and it shaves. A big plus for smooth close shaves. Keep at it.

 

[Steve56]

Bevels can be wide at the toe on used razors because they were used by barbers badly taught in ‘pigtail’ or ‘figure 8’ strokes. These can be difficult to hone at the toe until you have enough practice. Some razors were made ‘smiley’, they shave a bit more mildly than a straight edge. I suspect that the smile profile was popular at one time for good reasons.

Bevels can be uneven for many reasons, but if the razor is badly ground, your best option is to sell it and buy a well ground razor, you’ll never get even bevels on an unevenly ground razor. Here’s a $400 TI bought new last year.

 

[steveclarkus]

Right on. I think the bevel will sometimes be what it will be

Yep, the spine seems to dictate the shape of the bevels to a large degree. Razor spines often are not perfect and in getting the spine and edge in alignment something has to give and it is usually the edge. When the burr comes up they are in alignment and the bevel will look as it looks - no fighting it. The goal is to form an apex not the beauty of the bevel. You will fine tune your honing as you become more experience but the important thing now is getting an edge you can shave with. If you want to go to honing boot camp, get a few $4 Gold Dollar 66s off the Bay and hone the crap out of them and you will learn a lot as you watch what happens and likely get a decent shaver or two for your trouble.

 

[Slash McCoy]

If you get a burr along the entire length of the edge on each side in turn, and then carefully hone the burr off, you should have a good bevel. The width of the bevel surface does not have to be consistent. If you can get a good bevel then you don't need any special honing gymnastics. Just run your progression and strop, and enjoy your shaves.

 

[Jnatcat]

I rarely look at bevel widths anymore as long as it shaves well that’s all the matters, you can correct using tape and in the end it will cosmetically look better but may not shave any better

 

[str8six]

Thanks, that's very reassuring and it certainly shaves well, at least compared to anything in my limited experience. I'll try and accept the edge performance as the only criterion that matters. Borrowed a long hair from my partner and lopped pieces off it at different points along the blade from toe to heel. Some parts didn't quite sever the hair so I suppose that's HHT2, most could but I could feel it catch so HHT3. Looking forward to diamonds and balsa to take this the rest of the way.

For reference, I did try taking a picture with... barely adequate success. You can see here why I'm concerned the razor will eventually develop a frown if this happens every time I hone. But I suppose even if that does happen some decades down the road it can be corrected readily enough by whoever is in charge of it then?

And this demonstrates the extra hone wear on the spine towards the tang and the big toe bevel. Will be interesting to monitor if the thinned out metal there loses the edge sooner than elsewhere on the blade.

 

[Jnatcat]

You can use one layer of tape and this will raise the spine slightly and if honed this way will give you a thinner more attractive bevel but it also may not shave as well, you also can play around with tape in different spots to raise the spine in certain areas but all of these things change the geometry of the razor and have to be done each time it’s honed so personally I would live with it if it shaves well and just remember if the spine is wavy it won’t affect the shave and it being wavy is happening because of how it was initially ground or someone leaned on it in certain areas during its life while honing.

 

[Slash McCoy]

No, it won't develop a frown with proper honing on a reasonably wide honing surface. Just hone it normally is my suggestion.

What did you hone it with, and what finisher are you waiting on? It sounds like you pulled it off nicely if you shaved without benefit of what we would consider a finisher. Max it out on a 12k Naniwa or 1u lapping film and you should really enjoy it if you like it now. .5u, then .25u, then .1u diamond on balsa, and you will be awesomely astonished at your edge if you think it's good already. BTW Geneva Cutlery, later GENCO, made very good mass produced razors and a NOS one is quite a nice find even if it isn't particularly rare. This razor most likely will always be one of your favorites even if the grind is a tiny bit wonky.

 

[str8six]

Thanks for that additional reassurance and bit of history on my lucky find. Along with the diamond progression I have a 10k Naniwa Specialty Stone in the mail as it seems well regarded and is a bit less of a jump from my 6k Shapton Glass. Considering rounding it out with a chunk of novaculite from Royal Flint Abrasives Co. to experiment with a natural edge as I like the idea of supporting an entrepreneur setting out to establish a new source of hones. Canadian too! From the thread here, results sound encouraging.

I set the bevel on a 2k Shapton Kuromaku and refined it on the 6k. All in-hand and ending with the lightest strokes I could muster to compensate for the rough finisher. Was holding it almost vertically, inspired by your pasted balsa thread. Stropped with "Mother's Mag" aluminum oxide metal polish based on the Science of Sharp blog, albeit not on the hanging denim they recommend as I didn't feel like rummaging about for an old pair of jeans to cut up. Instead I just wrapped my 500 grit stone in newsprint. About two dozen laps. They mentioned part of the reason for the denim beyond convexing was to get rid of wire-edge, lacking that I recalled your description of draw strokes for that purpose so did some of those. Really amazed this worked out as well as it did.