For what exactly ?

[Sotiris_A]

Like in every market, there are reasonable and unreasonable practices. It is up to the consumer to get educated. As such, I like this thread because I've learned a couple of things about the materials used.

What I find missing in this discussion is the fact that, apart from the materials, there is also design. And that can be unique. For example, who makes a Blackbird-like razor out of 316L steel?

Part of the design is also weight and weight distribution. Most shavers get obsessed with stainless steel, because it is hefty and made to last forever etc., but I find some of the razors to be too heavy and ackward to use with almost all the weight on the handle.

To some extend, the original question seems to me equivalent to asking why would anyone bother buying modern razors instead of vintage ones. These old designs were the result of extensive research by large companies with huge funding, compared to today's offerings. Furthermore they stood the test of time. So why bother with more expensive modern razors when you can have a Tech or a New LC at a fraction of the cost?

For some, a razor is a razor, for others it is a luxury item and it must be new, shinny and exciting. Nothing wrong with either approaches...

 

[SCh5]

Sotiris,most modern razors are based on an old Dovo-Merkur expired patent.

Few are based on other ,
totally different designs.

Modern tools and machinery allow for the production of much more precise razors ,with low tolerances.

Brass (used almost exclusively in vintage razors) is actually equivalent weight-wise or even heavier (for the same volume) than most stainless steel alloys .
It’s the vintage hollow handles ,
that made the difference towards head weighted vs handle weighted.

Actually,there was a 316L razor that looked very much alike the
Blackland Blackbird,but it was more expensive also.

As also the RR GC series have
a rather big resemblance with the Wolfman Guerrilla razor.

Timeless razors look much alike
the vintage Liebel razors .

And so on ...
Actually ,most razors ,vintage or modern ,do share few,some or many common design features.

P.S There are few unique designs of DE razors ,like the first ever stainless steel razor ,the Darwin Deluxe ( which most people think that is made of Cobalt steel...
Cobalt steel has naturally
a dark brown hue and not a shiny silver one.Furthermore,is a very brittle alloy and even with modern tools and machinery would be quite of a challenge to make a DE razor from that material ,let alone with tools and machinery of 1920-1930 era ).Darwin company made blades out of cobalt steel and not actual razors.

 

[xmacro]

Unless you're shaving on a boat and storing your razors in the bathroom, chemical corrosion isn't an issue. Wipe off your razor, don't store it in the bathroom, treat it like a kitchen knife - it'll last forever.
Same reason no one's cares about rust potential on a high carbon kitchen knife and why they sell for more than stainless steel knives do - just take care of it, it won't rust.
As to your last question - hardness is more desirable for a razor than hypothetical chemical attacks, hands down. Human beard hair is equivalent to copper wiring of the same gauge. So hardness, the ability to keep an edge, and the ability to take an hold an edge smaller than a micron and able to cut a couple hundred pieces of copper wire every day without needing to be rehoned is a more valuable trait than being able to resist a chlorine gas attack (the stuff in your tap water isn't even worth thinking about). To put it a other way, it really is similar to designing an axe or a knife, just with a much, much finer edge.

 

[SCh5]

Yes,but you shave stubble with a blade loaded in a DE razor ,instead with the razor itself.
I’m not referring to straights.
From the start of this thread,DE or SE razors (and not blades or straights ) is
the main topic .

 

[xmacro]

Ah, gotcha. Outside my wheelhouse then, can't really speak to why they'd choose one metal over another

 

[Sotiris_A]

Sotiris,most modern razors are based on an old Dovo-Merkur expired patent.

Few are based on other ,
totally different designs.

Modern tools and machinery allow for the production of much more precise razors ,with low tolerances.

Brass (used almost exclusively in vintage razors) is actually equivalent weight-wise or even heavier (for the same volume) than most stainless steel alloys .
It’s the vintage hollow handles ,
that made the difference towards head weighted vs handle weighted.

Actually,there was a 316L razor that looked very much alike the
Blackland Blackbird,but it was more expensive also.

As also the RR GC series have
a rather big resemblance with the Wolfman Guerrilla razor.

Timeless razors look much alike
the vintage Liebel razors .

And so on ...
Actually ,most razors ,vintage or modern ,do share few,some or many common design features.

P.S There are few unique designs of DE razors ,like the first ever stainless steel razor ,the Darwin Deluxe ( which most people think that is made of Cobalt steel...
Cobalt steel has naturally
a dark brown hue and not a shiny silver one.Furthermore,is a very brittle alloy and even with modern tools and machinery would be quite of a challenge to make a DE razor from that material ,let alone with tools and machinery of 1920-1930 era ).Darwin company made blades out of cobalt steel and not actual razors.

Great info!

I understand that most razors borrow elements from other ones and that a lot of the modern razors offer superior craftmanship. But do they shave better? Take for example the Rex Ambassador. Better quality materials than the Gibbs, yet in terms of shave, everyone seems to like the older razor more. I guess that some of the crucial details were missed when attempting to "copy" or modify the design of the original.

I don't mean to sound like I am opposed to modern razors, of course. I am just satisfied with what I have and it happens that most of my preferred razors are highly popular and somewhat affordable, 34c, New LC, Progress, Fatip Gentile. I guess I am a vanilla type of shaver...

As far as the weight is concerned, it is strange that most companies do not attempt to create lighter, hollow handles aiming at 80gr or less, like Edwin Jagger did with the 3one6, instead of the typical 100gr. With heavier razors, I find that not only do I have to mind not adding any pressure, but actually counterbalance some of the weight in order to get a comfortable shave. At the same time, the tendency is to introduce razors in the mid-aggressive to aggressive part of the spectrum.

An interesting example is the case of Tatara. The original Masamune, made of 303 steel if I remember correctly, had some interesting design features but it was found to be too mild and remained below the radar until the more aggressive Nodachi razor was introduced. Now, the original version seems to be gaining a lot of popularity, even more than the Nodachi! Is it hype? I guess that the odd, unique handle, the customizability (since all parts are interchangable), but also exclussivity contribute to that.

I get what you are saying. I wonder why a Feather stainless is so expensive when my Rockwell 6S is made from 316L, and does a great job for only $90. (I got a discount for being a new customer)

The Feather is an outlier, because the company is well known in the wet shaving community, the razor was introduced in the market way earlier than most modern stainless steel razors and it also used marine-grade (316L?) steel. Could it be that people still buy it and the company sees no reason to change their pricing policy?

 

[samhain666]

Rolex is a classic status quo symbol.
There are Casios that cost far less,yet they are far more accurate ,impact & water resistant,etc.

I use my razors only to shave my face & neck with them.They are nothing more or less than tools.
Certainly they are not items of worship ...

You can't wear Casio while wearing Armani suit

 

[KW Driver]

You can't wear Casio while wearing Armani suit

you can, but...

and now you've broadened the scope of discussion.

 

[KrstGor]

Interesting discussion!!

I would formulate this a bit differently. For me there is cost. Cost is the price you pay for the razor. This is determined by the market: supply and demand. Simple!

Then, there is value. Value is more difficult. Each user can determine value for himself. For some, an inexpensive item that does its job is the answer. Others enjoy an item based on the quality of the workmanship, how it feels in the hand or how difficult it is to acquire. What is good value for me, may be a poor investment for someone else.

Just my $0.02!

I second this.

Value is in the eye of the beholder. Always.

I have some pretty expensive razors, a Koraat, a Feather AS-D2, a Feather Artist Club SS, Muhle R41/R89...

Are there in the big wild world some other great razors that cost a fraction of it?

Honestly IDK.

Possibly? Possibly yes, but more likely no.

Would I care to experiment to find out. DEFINITELLY NO.

Buy once, cry once.

Each to his own and YMMV and the usual other B/S that comes along...