Em's Place Stuff

[www.emsplace.com]

Hey all...

Lately I have been receiving several business queries related to the B&B forum. So I decided to stop by and found this thread about Em's Place. What started out as a thread about our products quickly turned into a debate about international shipments. I am not surprised really...

I want to clear up the perspective: We have been in the wet shaving business almost ten years, longer than the latest interest in this area was highlighted. For a niche merchant, international orders leave you completely vulnerable. If an international customer disputes or otherwise says the charge to their credit card was not authorized, and then if as a merchant you cannot prove you sent the order to the same address as the credit card billing, you are SOL... That is Shi_ out of luck - and the funds will be taken away from your business account.

This is why as a customer you need to enter the billing address as on the credit card. If a merchant can make sure the order is shipped to the same address they can have some protection in event of dispute. If the order is shipped to a different address then the billing address, then as a merchant you have to decide if you trust this alternative ship to address, and therefore look at other factors before deciding to ship an order. After all, no merchant wants to ship goods and not get paid, or they will be out of business real fast.

The problem is there is no Address Verification on international (outside the US) credit card orders if you are a US merchant. Therefore, some companies require the international customer to fax a credit card statement with billing address, drivers license and other documentation before shipping. As a small business we don't have the man power to go this route currently.

Young or new merchants will learn about this soon enough - or have deep pockets to suffer any losses. It is too bad that the scammers and bad apples of the world have to spoil it for the rest. But as a niche business we could not continue to take this financial hit. Large companies that can operate in the negative may be able to do so, but we are not able to. This also doesn't factor in additional shipping costs, exchange rates in the event of problems, extended time for parcels in customs and lost business thereof, and other constraints I will not elaborate on.

Personally I feel really bad. I have had some ask why don’t you make exceptions to members of one forum or another. Since we have repeat customers from all of the well known forums I can think of, how can I make an exception for one forum, without making an exception for another - or alienating our existing customers. Therefore, why have a policy.

Yes on one hand it is all about the customer. But in reality, as a merchant sometimes you cannot be all things to all people. I am on the look-out for better and more safe ways to do international business. And hope that we can change our policy in the future. In the meantime, I just hope international readers will understand it is not a discriminatory policy based on geography. I hope things will get better for small businesses in the future in regard to international shipments.

Thank you for your understanding and reading of this information.
Em
Em's Place, Vendor

 

[Scotto]

Em,

Good to see you posting, and thanks for the clarification on your policy.

 

[Kyle]

Em,
Thank you for the explanation, and very well said. You would think that, of all people, the credit card companies would fight to fix this glitch in a hurry.

 

[Austin]

Em, welcome to this forum. Your business has a sterling reputation amongst wetshavers here and shavemyface. Please feel free to post often.

 

[Xert]

A very interesting and helpful post Em, thank you. Would it be possible to use a service like PayPal or accept international orders paid via money order?

 

[NMMB]

...The problem is there is no Address Verification on international (outside the US) credit card orders if you are a US merchant. Therefore, some companies require the international customer to fax a credit card statement with billing address, drivers license and other documentation before shipping. As a small business we don't have the man power to go this route currently.
Personally I feel really bad. I have had some ask why don’t you make exceptions to members of one forum or another. Since we have repeat customers from all of the well known forums I can think of, how can I make an exception for one forum, without making an exception for another - or alienating our existing customers. Therefore, why have a policy...

Em,

I think that you may be mistaken here. At least with regards to Canada. I believe that you could quite easily verify addresses from Visa and MasterCard as I think (from my moderately-limited retail experience) that these companies are the same in both Canada and the US. Perhaps if you were to contact the Canadian office of Visa and/or MasterCard they could explain how you as an American e-tailer may proceed with address verification for a Canadian cardholder. If the address verification was not a problem then the only issue for you would be filling out an additional form prior to posting the items (while us Canucks would have to deal with Customs, taxes, etc).

 

[vox_rox]

Em,

I think that you may be mistaken here. At least with regards to Canada. I believe that you could quite easily verify addresses from Visa and MasterCard as I think (from my moderately-limited retail experience) that these companies are the same in both Canada and the US.

Actually, that's not exactly true, and I understand exactly what Em is stating. I am an employee of a major Canadian sporting goods retail company. One of the comapnies under the umbrella do E-commerce and run into problems all the time with International orders.

Credit Card companies are the most beauractatic and dense organizations to penetrate, and the 49th parallel creates a seemingly inpenetrable wall for these people. What should be common sense and an easy sharing of information in turned into a nightmare, and there is absloutely NO CO-OPERATION between the US and Canadian branches of these credit card companies.

Appalling really. Nafta has become an acronym the politicians use to placate the masses when the topic of cross-border trade comes up. But it is, in reality, a bromide rather than a panacea, and consumers and small businesses - such as Em's Place - are the only ones who suffer in the end.

Unfortunately for Canadians, there are many more retailers in the Continental US than in Canada, so we have to pick and choose where we get out supplies from. It's a real mine field, and it's also limits our choices.

So, why don't the rules change within the North American Continent if NAFTA is in place? There's no answer, because there's no political will to change it, particularly since the Canadian government likes it the way it is as they can extort even more money from Canadians as the goods flow in over the border.

Yup, internaitonal shipping is a tough nut, and one not likely to be cracked in my lifetime.

What a shame.

Thanks for your $0.02 (US) Em, it's nice to see you participating.

Peace,

Pierre

 

[NMMB]

It appears that I stand corrected. When I worked retail many (all?) of my support calls were placed to the US. However, I will take your word on it... I don't mind being wrong from time to time and hey, now I know.

 

[stropmegently]

Just to close out this topic, in a way. I am a Canadian living in the USA. I have been here for 6 years now. When I moved here I entered the country and could not get credit, buy a car or anything as I did not have any credit history. I had ample history in Canada but nothing here and it seemed that no one was willing to look north of the 49th. I was leasing a GM car, through GMAC Canada. I asked if I was able to transfer the lease to GMAC USA and was told a resounding NO! Even 2 branches of the same leasing/credit corporation from an auto perspective could not communicate with each other.

I know it is odd when you hear so much of the purported cooperation between the 2 countries with free trade and all. Especially when you consider that Emily's stuff is really "Made in the USA" and should be a free trade item!

Darren

 

[stropmegently]

What I could do for my fellow Canadians is buy the stuff for you from Ems Place and you then I could ship it to you and you could buy me Canadian beer and ship that to me!!!

Kidding, but wow, do I miss Canadian beer, especially Granville Island Brewery from Vancouver!

Darren

 

[Jim]

While I do understand the frustration of someone wanting an item and being told sorry, I can point out the problems/challenges as a seller that I have had.When I ship a sale via USPS I use a USPS priority mail box, I click print and slap the label on the box. The postman takes that package away for me the next day.I know what the postage should be will be and can let my buyer know this in advance.When I have had buyers from outside the USA place orders with me I would always get screwed on the postage.What is published in the USPS website for ''overseas''shipping seems to have no equal in the brick and mortar storefront.SOME of the employees seem to take great delight in letting me know how wrong I am, I have printed USPS web pages out to show them and they laugh, we don't do it that way here,thats on line! Customs forms requirements are variable for weight, value, class of service and destination. I cannot print and slap on a label is the bottom line. I live in the NYC area going to the post office is at least a 1 hour ordeal that I am not willing to do 3 X's a week, I do not have the volume for FedEx or UPS so thats not an option. So whats that mean? NO OUTSIDE THE USA SALES FOR ME SORRY.

Sorry was I ranting?
Jim

 

[Scotto]

Just curious - what business are you in, Jim? (if you don't mind me asking)

 

[Queen of Blades]

I concur with what Jim said.

I sold a Swatch watch on Ebay, to a guy in Italy. I quoted him a shipping price (from USPS online) of $20. He paid it. I took the item to the PO, to be sure I had all my ducks in a row. I actually paid something like $2.00 to ship the item. Then I went through the process of refunding him the difference.

Now I don't ship outside the US. Too much hassle with the PO.

JoAnna

 

[guenron]

Jim,
Not only were you not ranting, but bringing a bit of reality back into the equation. Nothing confrontational about BS being buried by experience. I was going to relate some of the tales of the new Canadian Highwaymen, aka customs agents, protecting their countrymen from boxes of colognes and aftershaves deemed (by them and their interpretation of some esoterica) to be terrorist weapons.
I have ordered colognes and aftershaves from the Great White North (Lothantique, et al.) and had absolutely no problem. I could not understand what all the hugger-mugger was about until I had numerous stories of shipments disappearing into the customs agents hands never again to see the light of day retold to me by Canadian friends and acquaintances.
Hell of a way to make a living is all I can say.

 

[Jim]

Just curious - what business are you in, Jim? (if you don't mind me asking)

PM sent...