you in spending money on items sane men would laugh at! (I hope you don't mind me completing the sentence for you.)
Keep up the good work David!
Damn Comfortable Shave
- Thread starter Chan Eil Whiskers
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Keep up the good work David!
you in spending money on items sane men would laugh at! (I hope you don't mind me completing the sentence for you.)
Keep up the good work David!
Thank you, @Cal
I give all credit, though, to the BOSC Training Center, where I've been privileged to study the world famous BOSC "Enablers -R- Us" training curriculum.
I don't know about you two but I don't need enablers -- I can blow my budget out of the water on my own just fine
That's a really interesting question. I'm curious how the relationship between exposure and blade gap changes on a TTO like the pearl flexi. As the number on the dial increases, blade gap obviously increases, but does blade exposure? Surely someone has posted these measurements for vintage Gillette TTO like a slim or a fatboy. Has anyone ever seen this posted?
I believe the exposure does indeed increase. I think @Esox might know where the chart is.
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Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
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- #9,967
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Thursday's shave was good.
First impressions (kinda sorta first): Good.
Happy shaves,
Jim
New razor Wizamet SI (flipped) Oumo mistura knot |
First impressions (kinda sorta first): Good.
My wife just said I smell good which is a very unusual comment from her so it must be important in the grand scheme of things. |
Happy shaves,
Jim
Only good?
I dont know if theres a chart or any actual measurements even, unless you mean this post:
It is the angle. The view through the camera needs to be straight down the edge of the blade in relation to the edge of the cap and SB/OC.
I havent seen picture of a Wolfman taken with the proper angle, but I suspect the blade exposure is neutral to slightly positive. Much the same as the NEW SC that has .023" blade gap.
1.25mm gap equates to .049". Adding three shims would increase that by around .012" giving a total of .061" blade gap.
I dont have a proper set of feeler gauges but I do have a dime. A Canadian dime is .049" thick and fits tightly under the blade edge of my Slim on 9. From that I'd guess a Slim on 9 is equal in blade gap to the Wolfman 1.25mm but with barely neutral blade exposure.
Increasing blade gap also increases blade exposure so I would assume a Wolfman with .061" gap to have positive blade exposure.
You can have generous positive blade exposure and still experience a very smooth shave with little to no feeling of the blade. The more the blade is supported, the less blade you feel because its more stable. This is the difference between your R41 and Fatip. Both have close to the exact same blade exposure, but the Fatip feels far smoother and safer in use because the blade is more stable.
Increase the gap on a Fatip OC, which has only a tiny amount of blade gap but decidedly positive blade exposure,
and you'll also increase exposure and effectiveness even more. A byproduct of that would be compromising stability of the edge. You'd need to adjust your technique to get the same feel.
Increasing blade gap increases the angle the edge is presented to the skin. The larger the blade gap the steeper the angle of edge to skin as the skin fills and flows through that gap. Gap in a razors design essentially adds a mechanical advantage.
Some really appreciate gap in a razors design. I understand and also appreciate it, it works. My skin however wont tolerate much blade gap. If I need more than 3 passes with my NEW SC and it's modest gap I'll have light irritation. If I use my Slim on 9, where I prefer to use it, after 3 full passes I'll have moderate irritation. As gap increases so does the speed my irritation grows along with the level of irritation I get because, in essence, with blade gap the skin is forced or pinched into filling that gap and in turn, forced against the blades edge.
My Slim on #1.
On #4.
On #9.
Obviously, as the blade tray rises, the blade rises with it. Increasing blade gap makes a razor more effective but, theres more to it than that, for me at least.
As blade gap increases, so does the amount of skin traveling through that gap. As gap increases, the angle of edge to skin also increases. Essentially your shaving with a steeper angle with larger blade gaps. As pressure increases with that steeper angle, so can irritation because the blades edge is scraping the skin more than only cutting the hairs. This is precisely why, when I use razors with even the modest .023" gap of a New SC, my irritation accumulates through the three passes. I have none the first pass, mild irritation the second pass, and gap and pressure applied depending, moderate to severe irritation my third pass. Yet, with razors that offer little gap, my Grande and Old Types, I can shave through 5 full passes, all done ATG even, with no irritation whatsoever.
Also, the bigger the gap the larger the bite if skin becomes pinched in that gap. Now lets add a less rigid design into the mix that may allow an unsupported blade to flex and increase pressure to make the blade flex from the large amount of skin passing through the gap acting as a lever against the blades edge. You can imagine the outcome when the spring pressure is removed from the blades edge. Now shave ATG while imaging problems faced by a new user of DE razors and the mainstream "beginner" razors which I personally see more as expert razors because you need to be an expert to use them without drawing blood. Its akin to Skeet shooting with a .410.
________________________________
Just for the sake of curiosity, I roughly measured the gaps in my Bullet Tip and MMOC. Feeler gauges would be more accurate but its close enough for an idea.
Bullet Tip left, MMOC right.
The blade gaps on both roughly measured .025", and yet, because of the thicker, more rigid and more stable blade, neither gives me any irritation at all, no matter the number or direction of passes or strokes.
While I had the calipers out I also measured the GEM PTFE blade and it is .0090" thick.
Another highly useful aspect of the GEM razors are the blade tabs.
As you tighten the knob, the cap not only forces the blade against the blade bumps on the blade tray and the base but also into the blade stops which I think greatly minimizes blade vibrations as I'm shaving.
As I've said all along, you dont need a yawning chasm of blade gap to make a razor effective, you need generous exposure of a well supported blade.
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- #9,970
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Even with a Timeless Titanium 95 OC I don't want to be too over the moon too soon.
The baseplate was used once with the Timeless Bronze cap and Bronze handle, and it's now been used once with my new Ti cap and handle. Both shaves were initially good.
Then hysteresis kicked in.
Thus some of my shaves, maybe all of them, are better an hour after I shave than they seemed right after the shave. You know what I mean I'm sure.
Then, there's the question of how close was the shave as measured by how long does it last?
Also, does the razor cause neck itching or any delayed undesirable discomfort?
Then - and this is important to me - is this razor one that works for me as a Daily Driver?
Frankly, I have a number of new razors with unanswered questions like these.
I'm going to have to use just one exclusively for a few weeks to get anywhere with my Science $ Curiosity issues and concerns, and yours.
So, all I have are contenders (and a FOCS). That one razor is way beyond a contender as I know it suffices superbly as a Daily Driver, but is there anything both its equal and more efficient and without disqualifying characteristic like pain and blood?
At present, the Karve SB D is looking mighty promising, but, again, there's that lack of sufficient trials issue.
I hope that makes sense to you and explains things.
Happy shaves,
Jim
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Ron R
I survived a lathey foreman
Nice pictures until you got to the Gem MMOC.
So many variables that define which razors are, and which razors are not, appropriate as a daily driver.
Beard type, beard growth rate, beard growth patterns, beard thickness, etc.?
Skin type, skin rugged/sensitive, wrinkles, pliancy, nooks and crannies, etc.?
Comfort Level vs. Efficiency?
Experience level?
Chore vs. Enjoyment?
Probably a bunch more.
Of course, all of this, and more, will be weighted differently by each shaver.
YMMV
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- #9,973
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
⬆ Yes! ⬆
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- #9,974
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Nicely done, Mike.
That doesn't mean I entirely understand it. Certainly parts of it make perfect sense to me, but some is beyond me. I'm not saying what you have written doesn't make sense. It's more that there are clearly - at least clearly to my befuddled mind which clearly sees a hazy mist - some aspects of razor design and function which are obscure, perhaps only to me.
Some things seem to be very very clear. Rigidity for one. Clamp that sucker!
I particularly enjoyed your discussion of the relationship between increasing gap and an increasing propensity to increasing irritation with increasing numbers of passes (or strokes I suppose).
It's entirely clear to me that I don't know anything much. I wish I could formulate some decent questions or observations.
Happy shaves,
Jim
I can't speak to the various angles (pardon the pun) but I have noticed I generally get my best shaves from razors that hold the blade very rigidly.
What's that Arthur C. Clarke quote I love? Oh yes, "When technology becomes sufficiently advanced it is indistinguishable from magic".
What's that Arthur C. Clarke quote I love? Oh yes, "When technology becomes sufficiently advanced it is indistinguishable from magic".
Those pictures of the adjustable at 1,4, and 9 are terrific. You can definitely see that the blade exposure is increasing proportionally to the gap. It looks like negative blade exposure on setting 1, neutral (~0mm) at 4, and positive blade exposure at setting 9. That's what I imagined was happening, but seeing is believing.
This makes a great deal of sense to me. It's also a pretty strong argument in favor of open comb razors, which is where this combination of small gap/high exposure most frequently occurs. It's a pity, because I prefer the "face feel" of safety bar razors. I've resisted the siren song of the FOCS for this reason.
I've been hemming and hawing between getting a Game Changer .84-P or trying out extra-wide Kai blades. My instinct has been that I don't actually want more blade gap, I want more blade exposure. Adding a Kai to a GC .68-P increases exposure by .05mm, which coincidentally is the exact increase in blade exposure offered by the GC .84-P vs the GC .68-P.
I think you've settled this argument for me. I'm going to spend the $2.50 on Kai to see what that does for my trusty GC .68.
Sorry for the digression Jim, I think it's this new book I've been reading...
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Here you go Nick, this is my GC68-P, clearly showing negative exposure.
Below is my GC84-P, showing the blade exposure as neutral. After using my GC84-P during my 2020 Fixed Four, my GC68-P has collected dust.
Just in case you were wondering, below is my GC-OC84, neutral exposure and also a wonderful razor.
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- #9,978
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Just fumbling about I came across an interesting post on one of the Karve threads. I'm copying it here because it illustrates to a degree what perplexes me.
As he says, a razor with enormous gap seemed incredibly smooth to him, and had no bite. Now, I realize I'm not aware of exactly what the blade exposure on the Wolfman 1.45 might be, so maybe that's the issue here, but I kinda doubt it.
Not that I really know anything about the Wolfman razors. All I know is some of this stuff seems to me to be counterintuitive in the sense that some razors go against what we seem to see as the consensus. By that I mean, we seem to agree pretty much that it's all about, or mostly about, rigidity, blade exposure, and blade gap. Some of us say various things about angles and how the blade is bent in an arch or how the blade is flat, but I see little to no consensus about those things (except sometimes as to how they impact rigidity).
I'm not saying you or someone doesn't understand razor design, but I sure don't.
This isn't a spoiler or even a caveat, but the point of view that Gillette nailed it with the Old
Type is very hard to refute. It's not exactly what Mike @Esox is saying but very close I think. But, then there is the Wolfman 1.45 as described here, and the Karve G, and the Lupo 95 (the two of those I've used seem counterintuitive in their results but certainly have rigid blades which isn't, in my view, counterintuitive to anything).
Happy shaves,
Jim
As he says, a razor with enormous gap seemed incredibly smooth to him, and had no bite. Now, I realize I'm not aware of exactly what the blade exposure on the Wolfman 1.45 might be, so maybe that's the issue here, but I kinda doubt it.
Not that I really know anything about the Wolfman razors. All I know is some of this stuff seems to me to be counterintuitive in the sense that some razors go against what we seem to see as the consensus. By that I mean, we seem to agree pretty much that it's all about, or mostly about, rigidity, blade exposure, and blade gap. Some of us say various things about angles and how the blade is bent in an arch or how the blade is flat, but I see little to no consensus about those things (except sometimes as to how they impact rigidity).
I'm not saying you or someone doesn't understand razor design, but I sure don't.
This isn't a spoiler or even a caveat, but the point of view that Gillette nailed it with the Old
Type is very hard to refute. It's not exactly what Mike @Esox is saying but very close I think. But, then there is the Wolfman 1.45 as described here, and the Karve G, and the Lupo 95 (the two of those I've used seem counterintuitive in their results but certainly have rigid blades which isn't, in my view, counterintuitive to anything).
Happy shaves,
Jim
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Thank you, @Cal
I give all credit, though, to the BOSC Training Center, where I've been privileged to study the world famous BOSC "Enablers -R- Us" training curriculum.
It's funny how I decided a few years ago that I know what I like in razors and brushes and I have tried many and own more than enough and I don't need to try anything else. BUT when something interesting comes along or a particular item is talked about with interest, I still can't resist buying one to try.
I should just stay away from this forum but I'm hooked on B&B. I need my daily fix.
We're a happy bunch of sad people. 
