Damn Comfortable Shave

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

My Monday shave was good.

The Boker Damascus Magnetic Steel blade seemed a tad harsh, but I realized it was from my skin being sensitive from yesterday's lousy shave with a not sharp blade.

My kit included GD Preshave, GD serum, and PAA Beach splash.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Somerled]

Thats polishing the edge. I do the same when sharpening a knife. My finishing takes place with very light pressure on a wet stone. My last 100 strokes per side are often done with less pressure than the weight of the knife itself. 100 strokes, flip the blade and 100 strokes. Back to the starting side and 99 strokes, flip and 99 strokes. Continuing that process until I'm down to one stroke per side. My edges are done at that point and if I used a strop thats the only thing I'd work them on after that and the blades wouldnt see a stone again until the edge needed resetting.

This is something thats been on my mind lately. Theres much talk of honing on stones and what not and much less talk of stropping. Maybe it works differently on a blade meant for shaving, but wouldnt stropping polish the edge more, while giving it a finer edge at the same time, make for a more polished, smoother and sharper edge?

Working on a stone sets the edge and bevel angle but the best edge, I would think, would come from working on a stop to polish that edge as much as possible. Thats the process as I understand it to sharpening anything. Start coarse to work the steel faster progressing to finer and finer stones or materials until the edge is where you want it. Maintain it on that finishing piece until the edge deteriorates enough it needs to go back on a stone.

I see stropping as important as using stones but maybe I'm thinking about it the wrong way.

Thanks for that Mike, polishing the edge is probably a good description. You can get a mirror finish on the bevel using synthetic stones and finishing on diamond pasted balsa. With coticules, and other types of stone, you get a very fine haze on the bevel.
I do strop my razors, before and after use normaly. But never as part of my honing routine.
I probably should include a stropping session in there somewhere, i'ts just laziness that I'm leaving it out.

I stumbled on the "polishing" method when honing my Henckels for the first time.

It had been honed by the vendor using tape on the spine and with Naniwa pro stones. I decided to hone it on my coticule without tape.

Took a while to get the bevel reset using only the coticule, not that I was in any hurry over this.
Interestingly, using my tiny microscope, I could see the progression on the bevel as I honed. The haze was slowly creeping towards the edge the more time I spent on it, until it eventually reached the edge itself. Really wished I'd taken pictures with my usb microscope.
Once I was happy with it I stropped and shaved, but the edge wasn't so good though. So I tried the "polishing" routine, and that did the trick. Very sharp and very smooth.

Now I do this with all my razors. It's good for practicing my honing and doesn't do much harm to the razors in terms of removing steel. As long as I keep the stone wet and using a very light touch, the blade just glides across.
No need for oil, just water.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

No need for oil, just water.

Nice. It would be interesting to see pictures of the progression of the process as you described. Doug, are you talking about polishing on the coticule and saying that process removes the typical coticule haziness? If so, it's the first time I've heard anyone mention being able to achieve that result.

Do you find honing the SS much different from carbon steel?



Link to the work I did today on this 136. Just trying to polish it up a bit more like you gentlemen are discussing.

I strop my razors after honing. I also strop them both before shaving with them and immediately after every shave.

Recently I ordered an inexpensive USB microscope so perhaps I can take photographs of the process as I hone. Mostly I'm hoping the scope will guide me a bit in my efforts to achieve consistent edge nirvana. I was introduced to it by a member who started a thread on this particular device, and then did a bunch of homework to make sure it was the scope I wanted to buy (without spending a fortune). I think it will be a helpful addition. We'll see soon enough.



The reviews say the little stand which comes with the scope works better than you'd expect, but I decided to order a more robust aluminum stand (pictured above). I hate wobbly stuff when that stuff should be solidly fixed in place and the stand wasn't too expensive. I discovered the sky's the limit when it comes to both USB microscopes and the stands to hold them. Not at all sure anything more than what I ordered would be worth owning for my purposes with edges.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Esox]

Mike, I'm sure stropping is even more important than honing. However, razors have to be much sharper and much more refined on stones than knives. A knife honed until the bevel is set is essentially ready for polishing. A razor honed until the bevel is set would probably shave you but you would hate the shave. Unless the bevel is set getting a sharp edge is hopeless, but setting the bevel does not do it in terms of a comfortable shave. The edge must be refined by finer hones.

We're on the same page Jim. I understand the edge needs to be more refined and maybe I assumed the entire process used on a new to you razor was the same process as you use to maintain your edge. I gather thats not the case unless the bevel needs to be reset from stropping, long term.

One thing that may speed up any honing is to vary the stroke and direction of the blade on the stone. When I start a knife thats in really poor shape I use my coarse stone and work the blade in tight circles with considerable pressure. Then I lighten the pressure and work it in a straight line. That difference of direction works the steel a lot quicker. Maybe you already do this.

Took a while to get the bevel reset using only the coticule, not that I was in any hurry over this.
Interestingly, using my tiny microscope, I could see the progression on the bevel as I honed. The haze was slowly creeping towards the edge the more time I spent on it, until it eventually reached the edge itself. Really wished I'd taken pictures with my usb microscope.
Once I was happy with it I stropped and shaved, but the edge wasn't so good though. So I tried the "polishing" routine, and that did the trick. Very sharp and very smooth.

I know exactly what you mean by 'haze' Doug. Thats sort of why I asked. You're essentially using the stone to polish the edge instead of the strop. Basically, you're doing it the hard way in my mind haha, but I understand the satisfaction of using a stone so I get it. Thats not lazy! lol

I would look at it like this. After I'd polished the edge on the stone I'd then take it to the strop and polish, or refine, that edge even more. The stone will leave microscopic scratches on the edge. So will the strop, but they'll be finer.

I've outlined above another reason I'm not stepping near this straight razor rabbit hole. The blade would never be finished lol. It could always be sharper or smoother. I may not drink from the OCD bottle often, but when I do...

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Hey, no fair keeping this to yourself, Mike. Pass that jug around, sir!

We're on the same page Jim. I understand the edge needs to be more refined and maybe I assumed the entire process used on a new to you razor was the same process as you use to maintain your edge. I gather thats not the case unless the bevel needs to be reset from stropping, long term.

One thing that may speed up any honing is to vary the stroke and direction of the blade on the stone. When I start a knife thats in really poor shape I use my coarse stone and work the blade in tight circles with considerable pressure. Then I lighten the pressure and work it in a straight line. That difference of direction works the steel a lot quicker. Maybe you already do this.

Yes, lots of directions. Circles. Ellipses. Half strokes. Etc. Some pressure. Etc. Especially early on in bevel setting.

On a new to me razor, whether it's a beater from eBay, or a NOS from eBay, or whatever razor it is, the first thing I do is check the edge with a loupe (at least a loupe). If I can see any chips or nicks or anything like that I need to reset the bevel and grind out the chip on the Chosera 1K.

If I'm reasonably convinced the edge is chip free and the bevel is set then I can go directly to the soft side of the Double Convex Ark. Other guys might go up through a synthetic progression (maybe 1K, 3K, 5K, 8K, 12K, and even 16K or 20K or 30K). Instead I'd go from the soft side of the DCA to the finishing side of the DCA. That's it for me.

Well, it's it for me unless I decide to use pasted strops.

Others would use diamond on balsa or CBN on balsa (maybe).

There's lot of ways to go about it. I have explored only several of them - not jnats, not Thuringians, not The Method (film), and not the UK stones - which means I've used only synthetics, and Arks, and the Zulu Grey, and the coticules.

If I chip the edge (on the sink or such) I'm starting over, but other than that touching up the edge is just running it on the finishing side of the DCA usually.

Speaking of honing and such, Mike...

Back off now before it's too late.

Or, someone might send you a dull razor to play with.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Twelvefret]

I've outlined above another reason I'm not stepping near this straight razor rabbit hole. The blade would never be finished lol. It could always be sharper or smoother. I may not drink from the OCD bottle often, but when I do...
View attachment 995437

Well, you'd been surprised to find its pretty easy to get it sharper and smoother sooner than later. And, its not expensive. That said, I would invest in a folding Feather SS with Pro Guard blades to start because its a wonderful tool and secondly because it teaches you a lot about technique that you will need for straights.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Well, you'd been surprised to find its pretty easy to get it sharper and smoother sooner than later. And, its not expensive. That said, I would invest in a folding Feather SS with Pro Guard blades to start because its a wonderful tool and secondly because it teaches you a lot about technique that you will need for straights.

Sometimes I agree with this advice, but Mike can already shave with a hunting knife and probably an axe.

Spoiler: And...

I've heard rumors of a chain saw, but I don't believe them.

Plus, he's used a SR before.

 

[Twelvefret]

Sometimes I agree with this advice, but Mike can already shave with a hunting knife and probably an axe.

Spoiler: And...

I've heard rumors of a chain saw, but I don't believe them.

Plus, he's used a SR before.

But did he shave well...lol!!

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Tuesday's shave was good.

• Torrey 136.
• Grooming Dept Barbershop.
• Grooming Dept Preshave.
• Grooming Dept Serum.
• Zenith Horse.
• Cremo Moisturizer.
• Splash.

Nice stuff. Nice shave.

Can't say the extra honing I did yesterday added anything to the edge, but the edge is very good.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

But did he shave well...lol!!

Well, I wasn't there. Ask the bear.

 

[Twelvefret]

Well, I wasn't there. Ask the bear.

Yes, just as I suspect....

 

[Somerled]

Nice. It would be interesting to see pictures of the progression of the process as you described. Doug, are you talking about polishing on the coticule and saying that process removes the typical coticule haziness? If so, it's the first time I've heard anyone mention being able to achieve that result.

No, I'm not saying it removes the haze. The more I polish it the more it becomes uniform across the bevel. Sorta like a brushed steel effect.

Do you find honing the SS much different from carbon steel?

Not really, it took longer than I thought it would to make a new bevel (over the existing one) with my coticule. But not greatly so.

I keep an eye on your exploits over in the Straight Razors forum Jim.
So, I'm aware that you've finaly decided to buy a usb microscope. I'm really interested in the stand though, because I've been thinking about getting one for mine. I'll look forward to reading your review on it.

I've also been reading about your interest in pasted balsa. I no longer use mine, because (like pasted strops) it removes the finish that the stone or coticule makes.
I would imagine that it would do even worse to an edge from the DCA. As I understand it, the DCA makes a slightly convex bevel. Pastes, diamond or otherwise, would surely change the profile of that bevel.
You should try it though, and make up your own mind.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

No, I'm not saying it removes the haze. The more I polish it the more it becomes uniform across the bevel. Sorta like a brushed steel effect.

Not really, it took longer than I thought it would to make a new bevel (over the existing one) with my coticule. But not greatly so.

I keep an eye on your exploits over in the Straight Razors forum Jim.
So, I'm aware that you've finaly decided to buy a usb microscope. I'm really interested in the stand though, because I've been thinking about getting one for mine. I'll look forward to reading your review on it.

I've also been reading about your interest in pasted balsa. I no longer use mine, because (like pasted strops) it removes the finish that the stone or coticule makes.
I would imagine that it would do even worse to an edge from the DCA. As I understand it, the DCA makes a slightly convex bevel. Pastes, diamond or otherwise, would surely change the profile of that bevel.
You should try it though, and make up your own mind.

I believe I've read somewhere that Jarrod said you can use pastes to maintain his edges. Since his edges are all off the DCA I think he means pastes don't hurt his DCA edges. Of course I may have misunderstood what I read.

Here's a link to one of his comments about the matter. How do you read it?

I'll review the stand that came with the scope and the aftermarket stand I ordered. To me, the stand is very important (as it is for everybody I think).

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Somerled]

I believe I've read somewhere that Jarrod said you can use pastes to maintain his edges. Since his edges are all off the DCA I think he means pastes don't hurt his DCA edges. Of course I may have misunderstood what I read.

Here's a link to one of his comments about the matter. How do you read it?

I'll review the stand that came with the scope and the aftermarket stand I ordered. To me, the stand is very important (as it is for everybody I think).

Happy shaves,

Jim

I find it hard to believe that it won't. But Jarrod seems to think otherwise, and he's the expert.
Even with a usb microscope it's going to be difficult too see the convex bevel for what it is. But if the bevel gets a hazy effect from the DCA then it should be possible to see that getting polished to a mirror finish by the pastes. It should polish it evenly across the whole bevel.

Interesting experiment for you to try Jim.

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

I find it hard to believe that it won't. But Jarrod seems to think otherwise, and he's the expert.
Even with a usb microscope it's going to be difficult too see the convex bevel for what it is. But if the bevel gets a hazy effect from the DCA then it should be possible to see that getting polished to a mirror finish by the pastes. It should polish it evenly across the whole bevel.

Interesting experiment for you to try Jim.

I've used pasted strops on at least one DCA honed razor to my advantage. The edge improved (for sure) off the pasted strops. Now I was using only CrOx and Dovo Red and Dovo Black. Not diamond. Not CBN. But, Jarrod dose say "diamond," so there is that.

I'm hoping the USB scope will help me sort some of this out, Doug, but I'm not expecting visual miracles for $35 (or any amount of money).

Being a purist is not my objective, but I also don't want to ruin nice edges with anything (pastes to sink edges).

The nicest edge I've used so far was off a jnat progression followed by diamond and CBN. I have no other jnat edge experience that I know of. I have no way of ascertaining what the diamond and CBN did or didn't do to the jnat edge, but I know the edge was sharp and also smooth and comfortable + it shaved me very well indeed.

Will we get this all sorted out one day? I somehow doubt any final resolution is on my horizon, but if my edges are good that's good enough for me.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Twelvefret]

how would stropping with lasts be any different than stropping with linen or leather regarding finish.

Picked this balsa up at Hobby Lobby today for $5

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

View attachment 995602 View attachment 995602 how would stropping with lasts be any different than stropping with linen or leather regarding finish.

Picked this balsa up at Hobby Lobby today for $5

I assume the photo is of a "last" but I'm ignorant about that term. Good question. I hope to find out.

 

[Cal]

I assume the photo is of a "last" but I'm ignorant about that term. Good question. I hope to find out.

Interesting.

Last link.

 

[Twelvefret]

I assume the photo is of a "last" but I'm ignorant about that term. Good question. I hope to find out.

Good grief, I am so sorry and embarrassed. I meant pastes.