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Cracking the coticule code

B

bmiller3230

Whhhooooo Hooooo!!! I was FINALLY able to get a really good edge from my Select+ La Veinette from Ardennes.

I had to use slightly more pressure when going to pure water than I normally do, which surprised me since mine swarfs so easily (compared to my standard La Grise). And I didn't really get to pure water but a very lite slurry (the slurry stone is also La Veinette select plus)

Do you find you have to take a different approach to honing on different veins?

I'm really relieved since this is supposed to be one of the best veins and I thought I would have to relegate it to low and mid level work.
 
B

bmiller3230

More weirdness. The first razor above was a heavy Gold Dollar.

Second razor was a totally different experience. A Dovo Barbarossa, full hollow square point. I would dilute to a skim milk slurry, and get a respectable, Ok shaving edge--beyond that, I would lose the edge. So, I took that one back up to a skim mild slurry with slight torque on the edge, then completely rinsed the stone and blade and do very light, weight of the blade x strokes on just water, rinsing about every 10 strokes.

That produced an excellent edge. So, different approaches with different razors also with this stone. It does have a full range of usefulness, from low to mid-range to finish. It's just the approach for this one is not what is documented. Just have to figure it out for each razor. Luckily most of mine are Dovo Barbarossas, so I think I have found the approach that works for those
 
Wid

Wid

bmiller3230 said:
More weirdness. The first razor above was a heavy Gold Dollar.

Second razor was a totally different experience. A Dovo Barbarossa, full hollow square point. I would dilute to a skim milk slurry, and get a respectable, Ok shaving edge--beyond that, I would lose the edge. So, I took that one back up to a skim mild slurry with slight torque on the edge, then completely rinsed the stone and blade and do very light, weight of the blade x strokes on just water, rinsing about every 10 strokes.

That produced an excellent edge. So, different approaches with different razors also with this stone. It does have a full range of usefulness, from low to mid-range to finish. It's just the approach for this one is not what is documented. Just have to figure it out for each razor. Luckily most of mine are Dovo Barbarossas, so I think I have found the approach that works for those
Click to expand...

This is my approach on almost all razors. Once on just water I rinse the stone and razor every set of 30 x strokes. When I do my final 10 x strokes it is with a clean razor and stone.

This works with most veins for me.
 
E

Empire straights

bmiller3230 said:
More weirdness. The first razor above was a heavy Gold Dollar.

Second razor was a totally different experience. A Dovo Barbarossa, full hollow square point. I would dilute to a skim milk slurry, and get a respectable, Ok shaving edge--beyond that, I would lose the edge. So, I took that one back up to a skim mild slurry with slight torque on the edge, then completely rinsed the stone and blade and do very light, weight of the blade x strokes on just water, rinsing about every 10 strokes.

That produced an excellent edge. So, different approaches with different razors also with this stone. It does have a full range of usefulness, from low to mid-range to finish. It's just the approach for this one is not what is documented. Just have to figure it out for each razor. Luckily most of mine are Dovo Barbarossas, so I think I have found the approach that works for those
Click to expand...
Try using a watery lather on that full hollow and use a really light touch and I bet you'll be surprised at how keen the razor will be. I find hollow grind do better on coticules for me.
 
Gamma

Gamma

You can have 6 different La Viennette stones, and they can all be notably different.
Old La Viennette can be insanely different than the more recent examples.
Same can be true for any vein really.
Its not a vein to vein thing - more like a stone to stone thing.

Learn feedback, and the edges will come without having to think too much about it. I see a lot of Coticules, for the most part I don't even bother with the name-game anymore. I just start honing and figure it out as I go.
 
B

bmiller3230

yes, I can see the potential in this one where I could not before. I think I'm on track to put this one to good use
 
Eshebert

Eshebert

You just have to keep playing with it. My "aha!" moment was when I went from finishing under running water to jumping to my Les Lat with just a hint of slurry. Previously, I saw no use for my Les Lat, it was a terrible finisher, so hard I had to really put a lot of pressure to draw swarth. If I used it under water only as a finisher, I could stroke for days with no change in feel, swarth or loop. Previous to my revelation, I would slurry my LL with one of my other coticules. I don't have a LL slurry stone and didn't think about drawing a LL slurry with DMT.

The light went on when I came off my little vintage coticule (mystery layer), after Dilucot and running water to a slurred up the LL with DMT, on the 3rd lap with minimal pressure I saw swarth 🤯. I made laps until the razor stuck adding minimal water as needed. I then went to running water until it got sticky. That process maybe took 3 minutes on the LL. The edge was almost mirror finish under the loop, the shave I get off that method will rival my Black Ark, with a little less work and effort.

The more I play with my Coticules the more I find how versatile they are. Just last week I reset the bevel due to a chip on the Blue side of my old combo, flipped the stone and did a one stone Dilucot hone. It may have taken 45 min. I was at sea with no synthetics and had no other option. It worked and I learned a lot.

Do your own thing and find what works for your stones. Be sure to share on here, I love reading these success stories.
 
J

JPO

Eshebert said:
Previously, I saw no use for my Les Lat, it was a terrible finisher, so hard I had to really put a lot of pressure to draw swarth.
Click to expand...

If you use it after a coticule, there shouldn't be much swarf on the LL.
These stones can benefit from a little surface prep, like the Arkansas stones.
A LL hybrid slurry stone is nice to have. They also work well with just a little jnat slurry.
Too much slurry on these will most likely set the edge back.

I have not had good results using a dmt to raise slurry. It will speed up the stone significantly. However, I think the base stone is too slow to make up for the slurry dulling effect on the apex.

The end result is all that matters. So, if the shave was good, then you must have done something right.
 
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B

bmiller3230

Honed 2 more razors on the La Viennette. Full Dilucot and I'm blown away. I realized that using a La Grise for so long, which is very, very slow, taught me some bad habits. I tended to use way too much pressure in the bevel set and dilution stages, and spent way too long on both stages. I guess it works for that stone (plus using a fast slurry stone).

I went back and re-read the article describing the method and adjusted and got spectacular results. This one is really a one-stone (plus slurry stone) solution. Really pleased with the results
 
J

JPO

bmiller3230 said:
Honed 2 more razors on the La Viennette. Full Dilucot and I'm blown away. I realized that using a La Grise for so long, which is very, very slow, taught me some bad habits. I tended to use way too much pressure in the bevel set and dilution stages, and spent way too long on both stages. I guess it works for that stone (plus using a fast slurry stone).

I went back and re-read the article describing the method and adjusted and got spectacular results. This one is really a one-stone (plus slurry stone) solution. Really pleased with the results
Click to expand...
My first coticule was a La Grise. This was not an easy stone to use. These newly mined La Veinnette are really easy to use. You can get a shaving edge even if you finish on a light slurry.
If I combine it with a fast lpb slurry stone it is a really versatile stone.
I also like to use more then one slurry stone if I need to do more work.
 
B

bmiller3230

K

kayvee

I realize now I’ve been doing this all wrong with the coti. I did two things today. 1) I started with a known razor that I’ve honed before. 2) I followed Bart’s dilucot procedure carefully (small mods based on how I sensed the edge along the way). This turned out to be way faster than before.

I have a good feeling about this based on the HHT. Let’s see how the shave test tomorrow works.

This is one of my early razors. Bear (possibly made from Sheffield steel) razor with my unbelievably ugly scales. The razor is a $5 rescue from an antique shop out in San Francisco. It came with broken scale’s and this is my first effort. I’ll rescale it someday.

It had my earlier edge from Shapton 1.5k, Hayabusa 4k, Fuji 8k, surgical black finish. I blunted the edge on the coti before starting so I’d know the new edge is all new.

IMG_3982.jpeg
 
B

bmiller3230

JPO said:
My first coticule was a La Grise. This was not an easy stone to use. These newly mined La Veinnette are really easy to use. You can get a shaving edge even if you finish on a light slurry.
If I combine it with a fast lpb slurry stone it is a really versatile stone.
I also like to use more then one slurry stone if I need to do more work.
Click to expand...
I'd really like to understand when you use different slurry stones for the LV. The slurry stone I use with the LG is what I believe to be an LPB, based on the visuals and characteristics. Its almost big enough to be a small hone in its own right.

If I wet it and do a single light pair of x-strokes, the amount of swarf left is amazing. I've been using an LV slurry stone with the LV, but might give that one a go as well
 
E

Empire straights

bmiller3230 said:
I'd really like to understand when you use different slurry stones for the LV. The slurry stone I use with the LG is what I believe to be an LPB, based on the visuals and characteristics. Its almost big enough to be a small hone in its own right.

If I wet it and do a single light pair of x-strokes, the amount of swarf left is amazing. I've been using an LV slurry stone with the LV, but might give that one a go as well
Click to expand...
I've used a small lv slurry stone on lots of slower coticules and I had about the same experience, I've since matched it to a vintage lv that is almost identical to the smaller stone. I've used it on hard Arks to decent effect for what I was trying to accomplish... coticules absolutly benefit from matching the right slurry stone to the right base stones just like jnats. Coticules don't differ over the same amount of range jnats do but their usage and technique can mirror it pretty well if you have a good variety of slurry stones of different hardness/ fineness. Tam O'shanter stones can also have a similar thing going on. Some of the cheaper no pedigree coticule slurry stones I've bought that were very fine, soft and very very fast can run circles around some of those famed layers.
 
B

bmiller3230

Empire straights said:
I've used a small lv slurry stone on lots of slower coticules and I had about the same experience, I've since matched it to a vintage lv that is almost identical to the smaller stone. I've used it on hard Arks to decent effect for what I was trying to accomplish... coticules absolutly benefit from matching the right slurry stone to the right base stones just like jnats. Coticules don't differ over the same amount of range jnats do but their usage and technique can mirror it pretty well if you have a good variety of slurry stones of different hardness/ fineness. Tam O'shanter stones can also have a similar thing going on. Some of the cheaper no pedigree coticule slurry stones I've bought that were very fine, soft and very very fast can run circles around some of those famed layers.
Click to expand...
I'm a firm believer that if most of the slurry is coming from the slurry stone, it makes a world of difference. Its why I use that LPB slurry stone with the La Grise and not one of my La Grise slurry stones
 
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