Coticule-Select vs. Standard

[Acmemfg]

I have a chance to pick up a new La Grise in the standard grade. Currently rockin’
a Le Veinette select. I like it a lot and think the addition of another hone would not be a totally bad idea. Question: what (if any) significant functional differences are there between the two grades?

 

[JPO]

The difference between select and standard is as far as I know only cosmetic.
Select plus is typically a La Veinette, LPB or some other vein.
I have a La Grise select grade. This particular stone was a frustrating and difficult stone to work with.
Ardennes also have some select and standard grade La Gross Jaune that I would ask for before a La Grise.
That is just my experience based on a really limited sample size.

 

[sexy beast]

It's perceived looks from what I was told. Every stone should be judge on its own performance. I have a "select" Coti 8x3 in stone that took me 3 years to figure out. It was a newly mined stone for whatever that's worth. Now I can work the stone from bevel set to finish. It's really a great hone. I really have done a 180 on my opinion on Coticules. I also have an Old Rock Coti as well, about 100+plus years old. Light sand color, very hard with manganese lines running throughout the stone. Between the two, I like the edges equally as well off both stones. They look totally different as well.

 

[Wid]

The La Grise is my least favorite vein. You can do one stone honing but it’s not nearly as well suited as your Veinette imo. I’d take just about any vintage coticule over the La Grise.

 

[Christian1212]

I would say I'm somewhat in a similar position. I have a 5x2 finishing coticule that I love. I want a larger coticule for progression work, but not a fan of the la grise (based on what I have tried in the past). I'm looking for a 5x2.5 or 8x3 of a nice La Vienette atm. Accepted though that I will be on this hunt for awhile, might snag something from the mine though when more select plus stones are available.

 

[Frank Shaves]

I would focus less on grade and more on fineness. I would ask Rob about fineness and his opinion of applicability for honing razors. I recently bought a La Grosse Jaune from Rob that is quite fine and very good for finishing razors. The recent La Veinette stones have also been good.

 

[Gamma]

Select Coticules are less prone to having imperfections, comparatively they'll be a more uniform slab and you'll typically see less of that weird bondo filler. The terms have nothing to do with honing quality at all.

There are many variants of a type within any vein. Not every La Viennete is going to be the grand Dame of the honing ball and not every La Grise is an auto slurrying, apex inhibitor. At the same time there are some La Verte that are identical to a lot of those La Grise stones. I would not be surprised to find out those two veins run near each other at some point or another.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Every stone is unique. I would, however, say that when buying “new” stones from Ardennes-Coticule, pay attention to what other members are saying about recent acquisitions. I once went back and read this entire thread and there were definitely waves of particular veins that people liked.

 

[bmiller3230]

I have a lot of La Grise, and none of them auto slurry. And none are one stone solutions either. I wouldn't choose them for full dilucot.

But one I have is a "standard" grade and is really an excellent finisher because it has an excellent tell that indicates when a blade is finished. It starts getting "magnetic" or sticky under running water. Turn the water flow a little higher and it goes a way, but comes back as the edge gets better. A few good stroppings in between, and a few iterations and it produces an enviable edge.

The two that I have that are truly good for full dilucot and are really "one stone solutions" are my La Veinette Select Plus that I bought from Ardennes-Coticule that was sold as that grade and vein from them (and they selected for razors), and one that I bought from Etsy that was sold as "Select" and had the Ardennes stamp, but I'm not sure of the vein (though, it is not La Grise). Not sure what it is, but it's not blemish free like the La Veinette, and its narrower, but also really excellent.

I think, bottom line, a La Grise can be a really good finisher, but of all of mine, none approach a one-stone solution.

I think the difference in standard, select, and select plus might just be cosmetic, because a lot of people rave about coticules on here that have a lot of occlusions, and some coticules with occlusions (like manganese lines) seem to be desirable for their honing qualities

 

[Frank Shaves]

Not sure but it seems as if Rob charges Select Plus for veins other than La Grise - like La Grosse Jaune, La Petite Blanche and La Veinette.

 

[Wid]

Not sure but it seems as if Rob charges Select Plus for veins other than La Grise - like La Grosse Jaune, La Petite Blanche and La Veinette.

My La Petite Blanche and La Veinette were both sold as Select Plus.

 

[Christian1212]

My opinion based on what I have seen over the years. Performance of the select vs standard looks like they fall somewhat close together. If giving them a letter grade they both fall between C- to B+. Then select plus seems like they are normally better performers (not just better looking). If giving them a letter grade they would fall in that B+ to A range. They are naturals though, and always a chance that a stones performs outside their expected range.

 

[alex1921]

I have a chance to pick up a new La Grise in the standard grade. Currently rockin’
a Le Veinette select. I like it a lot and think the addition of another hone would not be a totally bad idea. Question: what (if any) significant functional differences are there between the two grades?

I would ask the guy that grades them.

 

[bmiller3230]

I'd like to clarify that you can certainly go from bevel set to finish on a good La Grise. That was the first vein I owned, and luckily I got one that could finish really well. But full dilucot was a real chore (though I ended up with really good edges--eventually).

Other veins are more dynamic and responsive to pressure, less pressure, etc.. and when you get to know them edges come easier

 

[helicopter]

... I would not be surprised to find out those two veins run near each other at some point or another.

The veins are only a few inches thick, with some thicker slate between them, all stacked within feet of rock.

May 2024 Trip to Ardennes-Coticule

Turns out that the stone that needs to be extracted to get to the Coticule layers, which is about 4% manganese oxide and I think 20% iron oxide has commercial value. The quarry sells this stone to the brick makers to color their bricks. If it weren't for this market, it would not make financial...

www.badgerandblade.com

 

[Gamma]

Yah, I'm aware of how many veins are 'layered' through a lot of the formation. The old Coticule.be site showed many examples. Maurice has sent me many photos of the operation also.
Some veins were/are closer together in some locations than others. My point was, that examples of Verte and Grise have, at times, been seemingly identical - trait/personality wise. Leads to me think it's possible that those examples were spawned from the exact same prolith and in places could be closer together than in others.
Les lat, for example, two different yellow Coticule layers separated in places by a thin hybrid layer, seem to have only subtly different personalities.

 

[Stapelfeld]

Every stone is unique. I would, however, say that when buying “new” stones from Ardennes-Coticule, pay attention to what other members are saying about recent acquisitions. I once went back and read this entire thread and there were definitely waves of particular veins that people liked.

I've recently bought 2 new la grise from AC and both are great! I've used them for full dilucote with great success. So maybe now is a good time 2 buy? Not sure, I think a lot depends on how they are used