Spot on imo. Of course we want something that we like to last forever but in the end nothing does including me. There is nothing wrong with spending some extra for a lasting tool but some people speak as if a Zamak razor will crumble into nothing after a couple of uses; it won't. Chances are it will outlive you.
Chrome plated Zamak
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Spot on imo. Of course we want something that we like to last forever but in the end nothing does including me. There is nothing wrong with spending some extra for a lasting tool but some people speak as if a Zamak razor will crumble into nothing after a couple of uses; it won't. Chances are it will outlive you.
I totally disagree. Chances are zamak razors won't outlive you. I had one from a well known manufacturer that lasted about a year. There are myriad stories in this forum of similar premature failures.
But I'm not really knocking zamak razors. I know that at times they can last a decade or more. And they can represent a good value in terms $$ spent. I just prefer buying and using something I KNOW will last my lifetime and beyond. To me that is stainless or brass. IMHO anyway.
But I'm not really knocking zamak razors. I know that at times they can last a decade or more. And they can represent a good value in terms $$ spent. I just prefer buying and using something I KNOW will last my lifetime and beyond. To me that is stainless or brass. IMHO anyway.
Are you comparing chromium-molybdenum steel ( one of the most durable steels) to Zinc alloys like Zamak & pot metal?
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M
member 119848
Another consideration that gives zamak some value:
chrome-plated material provides a smoother surface than unplated (and polished) brass or stainless steel.
chrome-plated material provides a smoother surface than unplated (and polished) brass or stainless steel.
I had a Gillette Sterling razor. It is a Tech clone made & marketed by Gillette in Asia.
Zamak cap & base plate, aluminium & plastic handle.
Without dropping, just being in my bathroom, it turned greenish at the edges & plating eroded.
M
member 119848
I heard similar stories from users of Merkur razors. The weak point on zamak razors lies in the threads.
When the zamak razors are well done, not only the plating is thck, but the threads are made of brass.
Every time I see a discussion on Zamak and it not lasting I remember a razor I used for quite some time and how it although was about as cheaply made a razor as they come and at the time it was talked about was considered a very aggressive and cheap razor, I enjoyed great shaves from it. It also lasted MUCH longer then I expected and is still around. Anyone remember these babies, the "Yuma" razor from Best Shave in Turkey for about $1.50. If anything would be considered "Pot Metal" it was the Yuma. I got great shaves from it for probably 3 years even though I had other nice vintage razors laying around but loved the shaves I got from it even though it didn't look great and was cheaply made. a few had issues with threads as time went by but I never had any problems and gave it NO extra care or concern. Never cleaned it between shaves. Never removed the blade until a replacement was needed. Never did more then rinse and put on shelf when done shaving with it. Point being this thing was pot metal with NO coating of chrome or anything else and lasted and continues if I wanted but have moved to other razors. Your Zamak and Chromed razors are going to be fine with care and as stated if an issue arises just buy a cheap replacement one before or after your incident.
The increasing availability of moderately priced stainless razors is reducing or eliminating the price advantage of Zamak razors. If the prices are close, I think most would opt for stainless.
IME, Muhle is right about chrome plating, it is very hard and durable, not to mention shiny and good-looking. In my experience of many decades, the bottom line is, anything that is properly chrome plated will last for a lifetime if it is kept indoors, dry and in a not too humid environment. Even unplated zamak can last a long time under those conditions, though it will quickly lose its shine, of course. But even the best chrome-plated zamak razor will probably not last long if if is kept in the shower and not completely dried off after each use. Moisture eventually penetrates the chrome and the zamak beneath pits and corrodes.
One more thing: At the risk of stating the obvious, even the best stainless steel eventually rusts and fails if it is not kept absolutely dry. Those of use who remember chrome-plated steel auto bumpers know the characteristic clouding and finally pitting, though they lasted amazingly long considering they were always outside, didn't they?
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When I first started in this biz I figured I'd probably settle on a couple of razors and that would be it. Here I am years later and I have so many different razors made from brass, stainless steel and zamak that I'll never impart enough wear on any of them to truly test their longevity potential, including the "dreaded" chrome plated zamak designs (of which there are many I really like).
I think another point about zamak is there are different grades of it with some being more durable than others. I think the zamak Gillette used on some of its tech razors in the 70s is good quality and you rarely hear of failures there. The problem being there are no standards for grading zamak as there is for stainless.
Quality stainless rusts and fails? It really doesn't. It can tarnish and stain but 300 series stainless almost never fails even in continuously wet environments.
I have a cheap fendrihan stainless razor that lives in my shower. It has been there for at least a couple of years. I only use it occasionally when I am pressed for time and shave in the shower. ZERO rust on this razor. I doubt it ever fails even in this continuously wet and moist environment. You can say the same for stainless sinks, grill parts, etc. They are extremely durable and almost never fail. Brass isn't as hard but it is also extremely corrosion resistant. I have a couple of solid brass locks on my backyard shed that have lived outside exposed to the elements for 20 years. No corrosion. No failure. The brass has darkened is the only change. That's after 2 pot metal locks failed after less than a year shortly after I built the shed. Lesson learned for me.
Quality stainless rusts and fails? It really doesn't. It can tarnish and stain but 300 series stainless almost never fails even in continuously wet environments.
I have a cheap fendrihan stainless razor that lives in my shower. It has been there for at least a couple of years. I only use it occasionally when I am pressed for time and shave in the shower. ZERO rust on this razor. I doubt it ever fails even in this continuously wet and moist environment. You can say the same for stainless sinks, grill parts, etc. They are extremely durable and almost never fail. Brass isn't as hard but it is also extremely corrosion resistant. I have a couple of solid brass locks on my backyard shed that have lived outside exposed to the elements for 20 years. No corrosion. No failure. The brass has darkened is the only change. That's after 2 pot metal locks failed after less than a year shortly after I built the shed. Lesson learned for me.
OK. First, as you surely know, there is no such thing as "tarnishing" or "staining" as distinct from rusting when it comes to iron or steel. It's all one thing, oxidation or rust, except for the degree of damage or visual appearance. And all steel rusts, including 300 series stainless (apparently with the possible exception of an alloy called H1: How to Get Rust Off Your Knife Blade | Knife Depot Blog)
In particular, all steel will eventually rust in a continuously wet environment.
Here is a cleaver I inherited from my grandparents, "Cutlery by Hoffritz chromium plated". The rust on the blade is easy to see, at least in person, and has progressed to the point of compromising the blade:
In the absence of acidic chlorides or fluorides, 300 series (18/8 & 18/10) stainless is virtually rust proof. Never keep stainless in extended contact with a combination of common salt & acids for example vinegar or lemon juice.
It will stain, however, esp. if heated. It's corrosion resistance comes from a film of chromium oxide on the surface.
Theoretically speaking, this is largely correct.
H1 steel has a corrosion resistance less than that of 18/10, no matter what blurb may have been put out by the manufacturer. It is a 17/4 precipitation hardening grade with a little manganese & silicon. Nickel content is kept on the higher side too. It is the most corrosion resistant hardenable stainless, not the most corrosion resistant stainless. The prize for most corrosion resistant stainless steel must go to low carbon high chromium high nickel stainless grades which have a little moly.
That looks like chrome plated steel. It may or may not have a body of stainless steel. Most knives are made of 420 stainless, which is prone to pitting.
I'm sorry if I'm getting overly technical, but this stuff earns me my daily bread.
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Stainless will still oxidize and break down when exposed to moisture. Remember, its stain-less, not stainproof. Personally, I say use what you want and be happy. If thinking that your $200 all-stainless razor will last you a lifetime makes you happy, go for it. I'll keep my Weishis and Bailis that can be had for cheap and if one of them breaks or gets lost, I dont care because Im only out $6-$15. At the end of the day, its just shaving.
Erm, no.
Chrome alloy steel is a very good wrought tubing with excellent mechanical strength and properties. It's used in industry where normal carbon steel is not up to the task.
Zamack is a low strength zinc alloy casting which is good for making shapes but very poor mechanically.
You can't wrought/forge/work a cast metal. The grain structure is not suitable. It will just fracture. At best, Cast metal is good in compression (hence it' not a good material for threading and brass being ductile is often used on zamack heafs).
A bike made of cast metal/zamack would not get you round the first corner!
Head>Nail.
Which is why all of this discussion regarding the mechanical and chemical properties of metals is irrelevant. You are not going to get a better shaving surface than chrome. It's why gillette used it so much. (Never understood the value of gold plating razors outside of looks. It' not a good metal for the rigours of shaving)
Stainless is a terrible material for razors. It's hard to machine and polish to a level good enough for Shaving and its dreadful when used for threads as it is prone to cold welding. You need a good grade of stainless as well ( think high chrome/moly/nickel)so that it doesn't tarnish or pit.
Personally, I loved this post even if my inner voice seems to be the judging panel from "Forged In Fire".
Yes, you obviously know more than a thing or two about steel, and I'm not teaching you anything new, I know that. But I've lived a long time at this point. I've had 18/8 and 18/10 implements in constant use in my kitchen for 30+ years. And I still have a high-end, handmade CroMo bicycle frame from the 1980s that is a vintage collectible at this point. Sigh. These things are great examples of the amazing strength and durability of steel. But you will have trouble convincing me they don't need to be kept reasonably clean and dry, or that any steel I am likely to see is absolutely impervious to oxidation. These items all show signs of it despite my best maintenance efforts.
As you say, my grandmother's butcher knife is probably 420 steel or something similar, which I can readily believe is more prone to rust, but it is heavily chrome-plated, and had she treated it with constant TLC, it would still have its mirror-like shine after 50 or 60 years. But once it began to rust, all the steel wool in the world wasn't going to remove the stains, though she obviously tried hard judging from the scratches.
I used to make stainless steel kitchenware, serving utensils & cutlery.
I'm the third generation to do so.
I agree with you. I'm trying to say that no stainless steels are imperious to corrosion & pitting.
Acidic chlorides are found in every home. Even with 316, its not advisable to use it for salted tomato juice at boiling temperatures for over 12 hours, or it will corrode. I think I may have explained myself too technically.
It's difficult to keep 420 free of pitting in the long term.
Once pitting starts & the galvanic cells have been formed, there isn't all that much you can do.
Other than cutting or grinding out the affected parts, that is.
I have spoons made by my dad from 410, which show deep pitting.
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Yes I do know that. My point is it's very rare and almost non existent for 300 series to rust ( or stain or tarnish ) to the point of failure. Is that cleaver 300 series stainless? I would bet not. 400 stainless is a totally different in regards to durabilty.
in normal usage you just won't see a brass or stainless razor fail. Has it EVER been reported on here? Even the 50 to 100 year vintage brass gillettes with almost all their plating gone almost never fail due to corrosion or rust through (dropping is another matter). Yet there are multiple multiple people on this forum that have had a corrosion failure with a modern zamak razor. And I'm one of them.
Everyone always says as long as the plating is intact the zamak razor is fine. Absolutely true. But think about vintage gillettes that are 50 or more years old. Almost all of them have significant plating loss. Yet they are fine. Would a modern zamak survive that plating loss? I think most people know the answer to that.
There are some GREAT modern zamak razors out there. But with heavy use its doubtful they are going to survive 50 or more years. For people that are fine with that they are great tools and a great value.
