Canvas Treated or Not?

[Honedright]

Do vintage wax treated canvas (linen, silk, etc) strops perform any differently than raw untreated canvas strops, or vintage that have been soaked and washed removing all manufacturer applied treatment? This in combination with the use of a vintage, or even non- vintage, leather strop.

What is your experience?

 

[Honedright]

I’m considering strops that were chalked. So, is it necessary add paste to a washed canvas to get similar results as from a vintage, unwashed?

 

[Honedright]

My real question is: when a vintage canvas strop is washed to completely remove all dirt, and the manufacturer finish is removed, as well as potentially changing the texture of the strop’s surface, has the “baby” been thrown out with the bath water?

 

[silverlifter]

You could also ask another question. Why don't current strop makers, like Naomi-san or Tony Miller bother with wax or chalk treatments on their linen strops?

 

[Honedright]

So, how do those strops perform compared to a vintage Dubl Duck cordovan with waxed linen strop for instance?

And, once that same Dubl Duck waxed strop is soaked in woolite and water for several days, will it still perform the same?

That’s what I’m wondering.

 

[Honedright]

I’m using the Dubl Duck cordovan shell with waxed strop as my gold standard as it’s the finest strop in my collection. Some of my vintage Russian strops are very good as well. But all of them are in used original condition. No soaking in water.

I don’t have any of Tony’s strops, and am not ready to shell out $400+ for a Kanayama (unless I can be convinced that they are more than worth the money).

 

[Wombat ESQ]

You could also ask another question. Why don't current strop makers, like Naomi-san or Tony Miller bother with wax or chalk treatments on their linen strops?

Because today the 'average' man obsessed with stuff has 347 stones and 42 strops and 1100 razors? [lil overboard but u get the pitcher]

and some poor old dude workin down't mine shaft in 1900 had one razor one strop and one stone

Do vintage wax treated canvas (linen, silk, etc) strops perform any differently than raw untreated canvas strops, or vintage that have been soaked and washed removing all manufacturer applied treatment? This in combination with the use of a vintage, or even non- vintage, leather strop.

What is your experience?

I use an old meat cleaver razor and a busted eye witness razor as utility knives, I strop them on shoe suede leather with ace stropping compound from circa BCE the year when noah parked the ark. One sliced me finger clean and straight, to the bone.
I've used denim, me tracky dacks pants leg with/without dirt, fussy I am not!
I don't own any canvas strops all mine are 2 sided leather. but I would say if you soak the dirt out it a different issue to putting them in the washing machine on hot wash cycle.

 

[silverlifter]

So, how do those strops perform compared to a vintage Dubl Duck cordovan with waxed linen strop for instance?

I don't have a vintage strop in original condition to compare it to, but my Tony Miller is a great strop, and my Nakayama is a notch or two above that. I don't see how waxing either would improve the strop.

 

[Honedright]

Another thought in response: you are comparing major manufacturers such as Pearlduck (Dubl Duck) and The E. Morris Manufacturing Company (Certifyd) who operated during the early to mid twentieth century when the use of strops was still common in barber shops, to Tony Miller strops which are produced long after the heyday of professional straight razor shaves in barber shops, and, probably mostly used by hobbyists. Kanayama strops may have been used in barber shops, but today, again, probably mostly used by hobbyists. It’s possible that both Miller and Kanayama strops are comparatively the exceptions to what barbers would have chosen to use back then. I’d guess that had Tony Miller been producing strops in the 1940’s his strops would be more similar to the larger manufacturers of that time.

 

[Honedright]

I don't have a vintage strop in original condition to compare it to, but my Tony Miller is a great strop, and my Nakayama is a notch or two above that. I don't see how waxing either would improve the strop.

And I don’t have the others to compare to my vintage. I’m hoping someone with both can chime in.

 

[silverlifter]

This is purely conjecture of course, but my sense is that most professional barbers' strops would have been much like their hones; functional, but hardly to a standard we would expect today.

 

[Honedright]

This is purely conjecture of course, but my sense is that most professional barbers' strops would have been much like their hones; functional, but hardly to a standard we would expect today.

But we have good examples of those strops still around. Some in NOS condition, and some in used but very good condition. Why do you think our expectations today would be any more than those who shaved customers for a living? If your customers aren’t happy with your product or service you probably won’t remain in business for long. I think a professional would expect and use the very best tools available. And if they were the best then, why wouldn’t they be just as good now? Have whiskers changed?

 

[silverlifter]

Why do you think our expectations today would be any more than those who shaved customers for a living?

Because our standards of comfort have increased significantly over the last half century. I doubt shaves would have been exempt from that trend.

 

[Honedright]

Consider this: one dollar in 1940 in today’s economy would be worth approximately twenty-one dollars. Let’s say that a shave at one of the fancy metropolitan hotel barbershops cost a dollar. If you were a customer and the razor pulled, you were nicked, and the shave wasn’t smooth and close, would you go back to that barber after spending essentially twenty-one bucks? Probably not. I think people 83 years ago expected just as much from professionals as we do today, maybe even more so.

 

[Honedright]

And I think I’ll disagree with you about the standards of comfort. I don’t think anyone, at any time, liked being too hot, or cold, or hungry. Rather than the standards changing, I think it’s the means of achieving comfort that have changed. Also the availability.

 

[duke762]

My real question is: when a vintage canvas strop is washed to completely remove all dirt, and the manufacturer finish is removed, as well as potentially changing the texture of the strop’s surface, has the “baby” been thrown out with the bath water?

I've fussed over a few. I say fussed because I detest the white, powdery stuff. It feels slimy when wet and I couldn't see these working as strops again, unless I totally removed it. I've always wondered exactly what it is. My theory is corn starch? Flour? I sure hope it's not white lead.

That being said, I also don't want a stained fabric component so I go over board on soaking in Woolite, Oxy-clean, and bleach. Out of the last 6 that I've done, I've had 3 big successes, 1 possible (a little tattered), and 2 total fails that were so stained that I soaked them in way too much bleach and they literally fell apart in my hands.

My third best success is as limp as a noodle after cleaning.(possibly more than once) My 2 best successes are lovely and still retain some stiffness and look like new. Hold on, ....stiffness? Couldd that mean I didn't get all of the slime out? Lately, I've been enjoying Tony Miller's fabric component. I've learned not to fear the zoop sound of fabric, and I have seen what it can do. I am now a believer in fabric usage.

Yes, it will change the texture but no babies will be thrown out. You may be surprised at what you find and function will be improved. You really don't know what other bits of dirt and such are in-bedded in it either. Clean it up and see what you've got!

 

[Darth Scandalous]

In my experience, real linen, made from flax fibers, stands apart from other fabrics for stropping. It works very well as is. I can't come up with a compelling reason to wax it, except maybe if the weave isn't robust enough for it to hold its shape. Even then, I would look for other solutions.

If I was looking for a substrate for abrasive pastes I'd use poly-webbing. I still have one with chrome ox somewhere. Although if I actually was going to use pastes I'd probably set up a paddle strop.

Cordovan is very nice, of course. I don't think it's the be-all-end-all stropping leather, but it has a unique look and feel. But many leathers will get the job done, really comes down to preference. I think veg tanned horsehide is my favorite at the moment. I'd like to try kangaroo.

 

[Honedright]

The prevailing reason in my mind that linen strops were waxed is that the waxed linen provides an almost glassy stropping surface with just enough of the linen fiber exposed to provide whatever effect it has on the blade.

 

[Wombat ESQ]

Have whiskers changed?

The short and sweet answer is ...

Yes!

The really in-depth and bovine baffling answer is ....

errrrrrr, yes!