Blade skip with the nice soaps

[Spatterdash]

I have an unusual problem.

My go to soaps tend to be Mama Bear. When I use her soaps, I get a thick lather easily, but more importantly I get a nice glide from the blade. My razor just skims along, no catching or skipping.

When I use high-end soaps, like Tabac, Pre de Provence or D.H. Harris, I can get a nice lather, but I find the blade doesn't really move the same. In fact, it skips a lot.

Is this a characteristic of glycerin soaps in general, or am I lathering the high-end stuff wrong?

With Mama Bear or Conk, I use a damp brush (not wet), lots of wet soap(I soak the soap before lathering), and maybe a half teaspoon of water.

I used the same technique for the others, but despite getting a decent lather, I get jumpy blade syndrome, which leads to weepers.
Do I need a lather that is more pasty, less foamy? Would that help?

 

[thebikingengineer]

I've found that with my triple-milled soaps I end up preferring a thinner and wetter lather than with melt-and-pours. The first time I shaved with it I was a little apprehensive, but the performance was superlative.

It's kind of hard to describe how I get to the final product but I can say that it is not the same.

 

[nav]

I find triple-milled generate a thicker and creamy lather, therefore they require more water in the mix compared to glycerin based soaps (which already have a much higher water content to begin with plus other clays etc).

Once the water to soap ratio is good, I find the shave better than glycerin based soaps for sure.

 

[Aaron622]

I find that for me glycerin soaps are all around better, so I'm not sure I would describe your situation as a "problem". Yes, hard soaps will produce a thicker, creamier lather, but for me that does not translate into a better shave.

 

[Evbo]

I find triple-milled generate a thicker and creamy lather, therefore they require more water in the mix compared to glycerin based soaps (which already have a much higher water content to begin with plus other clays etc).

Once the water to soap ratio is good, I find the shave better than glycerin based soaps for sure.

+1. Egg-zackly.

 

[thirdeye]

I find triple-milled generate a thicker and creamy lather, therefore they require more water in the mix compared to glycerin based soaps (which already have a much higher water content to begin with plus other clays etc).

Once the water to soap ratio is good, I find the shave better than glycerin based soaps for sure.

+1...Bingo.....Triple milled soaps require a little more effort and practice to get a good slick lather but once you figure it out there is no going back to that glycerin stuff...

Remember, they are high end for a reason, they are the best.

 

[Aaron622]

+1...Bingo.....Triple milled soaps require a little more effort and practice to get a good slick lather but once you figure it out there is no going back to that glycerin stuff...

I disagree. I think it's easier to lather hard soaps since they are more concentrated. I think people complain about "disappearing" lather with glycerin soaps because they haven't worked enough product into the brush. Anyway, I have used several of the soaps mentioned in the OP, and I completely agree that they simply aren't as slick as glycerin soaps. The real test for me is when I rinse between passes: with glycerin soaps, my skin is slick, with hard soaps, not so much.

Remember, they are high end for a reason, they are the best.

That depends on how you define "high end". I'd consider QED with it's wonderful scents (high quality, expensive essential oils) more high end than stinky Tabac (which isn't all that expensive to begin with).

 

[biomesh]

Glycerin soaps have inherent slip built into the soap due to the amount of glycerin. Triple milled soaps usually have some glycerin and other components that aid in slip, but require sufficient water for them to activate or to work properly. Make sure to load up the brush sufficiently and to hydrate the lather enough so provide enough slip.

You can also try the slip test with the lather between your index, middle finger and thumb. Place some lather on your fingers and rub them together. Is the lather substantial, but slippery? If it seems tacky or if your fingers don't seem to slip well enough, then you need to work on the water/soap ratio.

You can always build a lather with a glycerin soap to get a baseline of what you like then start with another soap and see what is needed to build a proper lather for you.

 

[kingfisher]

Why not add a couple of drops of glycerin to the bowl?

 

[Spatterdash]

Why not add a couple of drops of glycerin to the bowl?

That works, but honestly I wouldn't want to bother with a triple-milled if I had to add glycerin. The consumer in me says I shouldn't have to.

Thus far, the recommendation seems to be more water for the triple-milled soaps. A well-loaded brush seems standard for both types.

I'll see if this makes a difference.

It's funny. When I read about lather problems with Mitchell's wool fat, the advice seems to be less water. Face lathering on wet skin seems the way to go. Yet the suggestion for the others is more water to activate the ingredients and provide more lubrication.

I guess each soap is it's own animal (or vegetable, as the case may be).

 

[Cookie_Junkie]

A well-loaded brush seems standard for both types.

I'll see if this makes a difference.

Face lathering on wet skin seems the way to go.

I guess each soap is it's own animal (or vegetable, as the case may be).

Hello Spatterdash,

You seem to have pointed it out here...
Well, according to my very humble experience, it's true that Glyce-based and triple-milled soaps behave TOTALLY differently, although most of your lathering technique may remain the same. Here are just a few twist to do the trick and succeed with french/hard/tallow based/triple milled hard soap I wrote to help a fellow member facing problems with his L'Occitane Cade:

I let some hot water sit on top of the soap for at least 10 minutes while I shower and then tilt it upside down but not completely dry. I hit it with a rather dry-ish brush, that is well shaken and pressed a little.
Go for a few swirls till I get a proto lather on top of the cake (YES, it looks dry and creamy, with dwarven spikes) and the brush looks FULLY loaded.
Then I finish with a face lather, for at least 2 minutes. Another trick here is to keep your face wet. I mean WET, drippin’ over the sink. I actually put down the brush once it’s loaded and re-soak my face with hot water just before I lather. This water you’ll need to get absorbed by your brush and proto lather. But maybe it’s just me…

So, as you see, I would not advise TOO MUCH water for triple milled soaps, but rather try and aim for thick, creamy protolather and develop it on wet cheeks as you go. Don't be affraid to work it up a little longer.

-Let sit water on top of soap for a while
-Hit with a drier brush
-Fully, FULLY load the brush, yes MORE soap
-Face lather on a drippin’face


Now for that "high end" argument, to me this is all just snobbish BS, oh, no offense here, for I also indulge in such behaviors more than often, yet, in this case, these soaps are just two different animals to me. Don't compare apples to bananas, huh?
While I LOVE hard soaps (French and English) for their creamy lather, cushion and feeling as a general experience, I DO confess, there is a lot more to deal with in terms of scents in the Glyce dept, often perfumed with lots, LOTS of EO... Of course you'd argue some lack refinement here and the English ones are more.....subtle! You've got a point there, surely. But once again, they do not get used with the same thing in mind. Just wait till I get my hands on some of your American MB or QED soaps, many nice scents for sure!!!

Anyway, I really hope that could help. Keep us posted with your results, but most important, keep up with these hard soaps for they are worth it. Truely!

 

[Doc4]

Keep at it with the triple-milled ones ... you should get great results soon enough! Try lathering with the same soap for a few weeks, and your lather will slowly improve, as compared to jumping from soap to soap each morning.

 

[bokaba]

A more hydrated lather will certainly help

 

[Spatterdash]

You say that, Bokaba, and it makes sense.

But it seems to me that the lathers I do get from the triple-milled soaps are thick and dry and they cause blade skip.
However--
If I make them thinner, more watery, I still get blade skip.

It's as if there aren't enough lubricating ingredients in these soaps. Tabac is known for cushion, I understand that, but Pre de Provence causes the same?

I'm beginning to think that instead of building either a dryer or wetter lather, I need to face-lather with a loaded brush and go for a wet paste instead of trying to build mounds of foam. ...OR... Go the opposite direction, go heavy with the water and lather up just until it's white opaque.

As usual in life, it's looking like there are shades of gray for everything.

 

[biomesh]

Could this be a water hardness issue? Water is the main lubricating ingredient in lather. The soap/cream is used in conjunction with water to make a suspension used for shaving (i.e. lather). If the ratio or properties of the either product end up not working well with one another the lather will suffer.

Just because the lather is hydrated doesn't mean it needs to be thin. You just need to find the right combination of soap & water. The look and feel of the triple milled lather may not be the same as a cream or a glycerin soap since it has different properties.

Once you get the process down you can make great lather with almost any soap.

 

[Duncan Hill]

Are all the tallow soaps pretty similar in function? I have some AOS lemon soap and I'm having similar problems in getting a lubricating lather from it. I'm going to experiment some more with it after reading this thread. It seems that I might not be adding enough water.

 

[The Nid Hog]

I don't think that adding water with a triple-milled soap will necessarily make your lather thin or watery. I face lather, and when I add more water by dabbing my brush into the hot water in the sink, my lather momentarily gets runnier. However, I continue working the lather with circular motions of the brush until it thickens up again. By keeping at it like that I get the lather that I want--rich and cushiony, but also slippery. I can't say that I've had any problems in recent mind with the blade skipping.

 

[ScotchDave]

I'm just checking, but is you prep exactly the same for both types of soap?

 

[strat1117]

+1...Bingo.....Triple milled soaps require a little more effort and practice to get a good slick lather but once you figure it out there is no going back to that glycerin stuff...

Remember, they are high end for a reason, they are the best.

I agree. Once you figure out how to make a tallow or other hard milled soap work, at least in my experience, the lather you get gives you much more cushion and glide than the softer glycerin based soaps. It is like the differencee between homemade whipped heavy cream and Reddy Whip.

BTW, that doesn't mean you can't get a good shave with the glycerin soaps, you certainly can and many do. Whichever works for you is the best.

One thing I'm not sure anyone else mentioned, I find that certain brushes work better with certain soaps. It may be that your brush works great for you in the glycerin but that a slightly stiffer (or softer, depending upon exactly what your issue turns out to be) brush may work for you in the milled soaps. Just a thought.

Enjoy!

 

[thirdeye]

That depends on how you define "high end". I'd consider QED with it's wonderful scents (high quality, expensive essential oils) more high end than stinky Tabac (which isn't all that expensive to begin with).

True but then again I would not consider QED high end...