ok so ive been having people tell me that the thumb nail test, thumb pad test are for setting the bevel and that the hair cutting test is for the polishing stage. does this mnean when i feel the razors bevel is where it should be with the thumb nail test (i know what to feel for) then i can just move on without having to do a hair cutting test. ill also be looking at the edge with a loup and i know what to look for with that
bevel setting question
- Thread starter Staggers and Jags
- Start date
You just hone until you feel the feedback from the stone feels right. At some point you will feel there is no change in feedback. Some stones are easier to read the feedback from then others. This is one reason I never liked the Naniwa Super Stones. They were more difficult to read the feedback from then some other stones.
At 6 to 8k you should be treetopping arm hair effortlessly.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
When in doubt, I do a (face) shave test with my bevel set. You soon will learn from the feel of the edge when the bevel is set, without the need for a shave test.
The nail test is a tried a true method when you know what you're looking for. Once it passes you can proceed to the next stone. Or if you're using it with a coticule then it's time to start the dilutions.
- Thread starter
- #5
also this may be a stupid question. but does the bevel have to cut hair to be able to move on to the next stone? if yes. does it have to be shaving very very well or just as soon as its cutting hair even a little bit move on?
If it can't cut arm hair after 1k, you don't have a bevel.
This.
rbscebu
Girls call me Makaluod
For me, if it won't face shave at least WTG (and preferably XTG) off a 1k, the bevel isn't set.
If it cuts hair, it cuts hair. Whether it is on your arm or face makes little difference, except if you use your arm you can quickly check without interrupting your honing session.
The fact that face hair is generally thicker (on most men) adds nothing to its ability to check whether the bevel is set or not.
In my world, the razor is a tool. I don't care about wasting steel, if it's that valuable I don't want it around anyhow. Bevel set is a binary choice, yes or no, on something I can't see with the naked eye. Gimme' a burr. Give me a tactile, binary signal, yes/no.
If the razor was previously shaved with that burr is not too many half strokes away. I like to keep track of the number of strokes as in, if I raise a burr with 35 half strokes on one side I'll certainly check for a similar burr on the other side after 35. If the burr is raised on the other side I proceed to count down the half strokes, say 4 sets of 30 half strokes each side, 4 sets of 20 etc. until 4set's of 5 then 1 set of 4,3,2, half strokes until we end up at full honing passes and an almost fool proof bevel. Not much if any guess work. I may scope the apex at this point. No corrosive grapes, tomatoes and I never trusted thumb nails. How do I know it's fool proof? I use it! YMMV, horses for courses etc.
Man, I struggled with the bevel thing for much longer than I should have starting out. At one point I believed I could pick up where I left off on the bevel setter and get that problem area on the next stone. Total user induced error.
If the razor was previously shaved with that burr is not too many half strokes away. I like to keep track of the number of strokes as in, if I raise a burr with 35 half strokes on one side I'll certainly check for a similar burr on the other side after 35. If the burr is raised on the other side I proceed to count down the half strokes, say 4 sets of 30 half strokes each side, 4 sets of 20 etc. until 4set's of 5 then 1 set of 4,3,2, half strokes until we end up at full honing passes and an almost fool proof bevel. Not much if any guess work. I may scope the apex at this point. No corrosive grapes, tomatoes and I never trusted thumb nails. How do I know it's fool proof? I use it! YMMV, horses for courses etc.
Man, I struggled with the bevel thing for much longer than I should have starting out. At one point I believed I could pick up where I left off on the bevel setter and get that problem area on the next stone. Total user induced error.
I love the thumbnail test. To find out what you are looking for, just take a shave ready razor to the 1k. You know the shave ready razor will have its bevel set, so do 25 or so laps to bring the edge down to a 1k edge. Then give it the thumbnail test to see how that edge feels. I always hope a bit more on the 1k after the test to repair any small damage.
I do the same test on just about anything I sharpen. For razors I rest my tumb on the spine and feel the edge with two or three dry fingers. After that I don't touch the edge. I might try to cut some arm hair.
If we assume setting a bevel is only needed to be done once. A foolproof method is to raise a burr on each side. Then lightly joint the edge, and do around 10 passes to bring the edge back. No tests are needed then. You are just creating two intersecting planes. The following stones are more then capable to handle the rest.
You will be wasting a few extra microns of steel, which makes no difference if you avoid the temptation to hone the razor like this every time.
If we assume setting a bevel is only needed to be done once. A foolproof method is to raise a burr on each side. Then lightly joint the edge, and do around 10 passes to bring the edge back. No tests are needed then. You are just creating two intersecting planes. The following stones are more then capable to handle the rest.
You will be wasting a few extra microns of steel, which makes no difference if you avoid the temptation to hone the razor like this every time.
Might want to invest in a loupe. I purchased one last week finally got to use it yesterday. I got it off the Bay a TOMLOV DM1S WiFI Digital Microscope 1000X1080 HD. It was a huge help! The razor I was honing, was a Thiers Issard Monneret purchased of the Bay as well. I thought I had bevel perfect. It would shave hair of a 1K. After inspecting the edge with the scope, I could see tiny nicks in the edge about 3/8 along toward the toe. Never would have been able to see them without the scope. Now would it have made a difference in the shave, who knows. Another cool thing is you are able to view your progression through your stones. But the shave this morning was outstanding.
- Thread starter
- #15
its funny you should say this cause i just had someone respond on face book something along the lines of "ive never read anywhere that the cutting of hair meant the bevel was set or not" at the bevel setting stage im beginning to believe it all
depends on how you test the bevel. the oens that use the arm hair test at bevel setting say it has to cut hair. the ones that use the thumb nail says it has to pass thumbnail and a few have said it has to pass the thumbnail test and it isnt important whether it will shave hair off the bevel as long as the tests are satisfied in the case of the discussion i was having about this" water test, thumb nail test and optical test" what i mean was AT 1k before moving on does it need to cut hair
don't forget the tomato skin cutters, and the "I feel it on the stone"
Other ways not identified?
Steve56
Ask me about shaving naked!
Yes sir, and you can see it with a 7-10x loupe.
Hone on your stone until it loses the drag it has initially and feels smooth. I always imagined this is the abrasive falling into its same cuts. All stones don't change much in feedback, but many you'll notice a loss in drag(might feel like you're hydroplaining on the stone). In my experience this is when I go up in grit. I don't have a loupe or scope so I can't really tell you what's happening but that's what it feels like to me.
I don't know about a loupe, but under my old magnifying glass I can see the edge is straight. And the bevel is usually fairly even. I can usually cut beard hair semi comfortably with a finished bevel set on a low grit stone(only synth I use regularly is a fine/ medium India and I think the fine side is a little under that) and can hht hairs with a "ping". I had to put some extra elbow grease on a cleaver job this weekend because it the edge was so jacked(pork bones).I sharpened it like an axe with a Pyrenees combo. It would grab arm hair ¼" up after a few mins of circles down and back on the saurat side. Not a real fine stone. I think they are rated at 1200 but you can't go by that.
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