Battle of the “Pocket Gun”

[novitiate]

Paraphrased anecdote on Taurus I read recently from a Brazilian: Taurus basically culls all "A" grade finish/function guns for the US market. That is only a part of their production total and "rejects" get sold in less critical markets at reduced price. I recall when they entered the US market (mid 1980s?) they did not have a good reputation but that rapidly improved. Can't recall reading anything bad on them for decades. If above true it sheds light on why.

Have to admit, these intrigue me (Taurus 85VTA) -

What was old is new again (H&R "Self-Cocker", early 1900s) -

 

[OkieStubble]

That is an interesting pistol indeed. Taurus has come along way with their quality since back in the day. I think, they are the only gun manufacturer who offers an unlimited lifetime warranty?

 

[novitiate]

That is an interesting pistol indeed. Taurus has come along way with their quality since back in the day. I think, they are the only gun manufacturer who offers an unlimited lifetime warranty?

It comes standard with a polycarbonate side plate. I'd be tempted to engine-turn the exposed side of the hammer -

 

[OkieStubble]

Yeah, that's unique alright.

 

[kw1861]

That is an interesting pistol indeed. Taurus has come along way with their quality since back in the day. I think, they are the only gun manufacturer who offers an unlimited lifetime warranty?

North American Arms Co offers an unlimited lifetime warranty, for the life of the gun. I broke the mainspring on mine, and they sent a new one free of charge. And I'm not the original owner! I've always been impressed with their mini revolvers.

 

[Acmemfg]

Smith & Wesson has a lifetime warranty. For all practical purposes, so does Ruger.

 

[OkieStubble]

Smith & Wesson has a lifetime warranty. For all practical purposes, so does Ruger.

A unlimited lifetime warranty?

 

[Acmemfg]

@OkieStubble...So it would seem.

"Smith & Wesson’s Lifetime Service Policy begins after the warranty period has expired. Smith & Wesson will repair, without charge, for the lifetime of the original owner, any Smith & Wesson handgun purchased on or after February 1, 1989, and any M&P15 series rifle, that is found to have a defect in material or workmanship. Eligibility for this Lifetime Service Policy requires returning the Product Registration Card within 30 days of purchase. The Lifetime Service Policy covers functional defects; it does not include the firearm’s finish, grips, magazines or sights. The Lifetime Service Policy is in addition to and not an extension of the Smith & Wesson Warranty. This warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may also have other rights that vary from State to State."

 

[OkieStubble]

Good to know.

 

[shoelessjoe]

...I recall when they entered the US market (mid 1980s?) they did not have a good reputation but that rapidly improved. Can't recall reading anything bad on them for decades.

Taurus has come along way with their quality since back in the day...

That 80’s reputation is still so prevalent, that reaction by ignorant throngs to mention of interest in or affections for anything Taurus is tantamount to wearing a MAGA cap while strolling Pearl Street Mall up in Boulder ... and UNjustifiably so

Hand over the extra $275-plus & I’ll opt for like S&W every time, but at their price point, today’s Taurus is an excellent, reliable firearm. A few years back, their matte black (tenifer) Model 85 +Ps could be found at well under $200 ... picked one up & as is the norm, installed Hogue grips & reduced Wolff springs. The only issue with this 85 was some roughness when rotating the cylinder, which was resolved by polishing the center pin.

It’s a fine, accurate revolver which is trusted every bit as much as anything else that gets carried by myself & the spouse.

 

[novitiate]

Model 85 +Ps could be found at well under $200 ...

This appeals to me...

 

[xiletero]

@OkieStubble...So it would seem.

"Smith & Wesson’s Lifetime Service Policy begins after the warranty period has expired. Smith & Wesson will repair, without charge, for the lifetime of the original owner, any Smith & Wesson handgun purchased on or after February 1, 1989, and any M&P15 series rifle, that is found to have a defect in material or workmanship. Eligibility for this Lifetime Service Policy requires returning the Product Registration Card within 30 days of purchase. The Lifetime Service Policy covers functional defects; it does not include the firearm’s finish, grips, magazines or sights. The Lifetime Service Policy is in addition to and not an extension of the Smith & Wesson Warranty. This warranty gives you specific legal rights. You may also have other rights that vary from State to State."

Interesting: I have always thought that registering with warranty cards....will eventually generate another list that the gun-grabbers might have access....especially now that they are suing the manufacturers.....

 

[HDSledge]

I would not recommend this one as it is persnickety about the ammo it will eat but.....1) It IS small. 2) It is 380. 3) It can be safely carried with a round in the chamber (DAO). It has been with me 24/7/365 for over 20 years and only seen the light of day at the range and cleaning.

Next to my pervious carry (.25 apc) going back more decades which I would NEVER carry chambered.

Another Seecamp .380 fan! I love mine but carry a 9 everyday which is not too much bigger. When out on my motorsickle I like the size of the Seecamp and it is great for concealed carry with nothing but a t-shirt. Tip on the ammo: Lehigh XD (Xtreme Defender) .380 doesn't bang your trigger finger to a pulp like others do and is actually a pleasure to shoot.

 

[jkingrph]

Primary vs Backup:

There‘s a great deal of talk that the average shooting lasts one to three rounds, and that something like 99% of all shootings are negated by the mere drawing of a weapon. That might be all well and good, but generally speaking, we carry handguns as insurance policies. I don’t know about you, but I prefer full coverage when I insure, hence in a handgun it stands to reason that I’d prefer greater ammo capacity and faster reloads.

Agree, Back about 1970-71 I was a young USAF officer headed home on leave from Ga to La when I was forced off the road over in eastern Ala. When I stepped out and leveled my big K 38 target revolver at the occupants of the other vehicle who were headed back my way they quickly changed their minds and left rather quickly, no shots fired . I was most probably carrying illegally back then with a loaded handgun under the seat crossing multiple states, but was not too worried about it. Nowdays I legally carry, and perfer pocket carry and use a little Sig P938, I recently got a slightly larger P365 which feels better in my hand but it is just not as easy to get out of a pocket as the slightly smaller 938, so will use it for IWB carry in cooler weather.

 

[HDSledge]

I would not recommend this one as it is persnickety about the ammo it will eat but.....1) It IS small. 2) It is 380. 3) It can be safely carried with a round in the chamber (DAO). It has been with me 24/7/365 for over 20 years and only seen the light of day at the range and cleaning.

Next to my pervious carry (.25 apc) going back more decades which I would NEVER carry chambered.

Hey not sure if you are into it but you can get a mirror polish on the Seecamp very easily.

I used Mothers Mag Polish.

 

[OkieStubble]

Interesting: I have always thought that registering with warranty cards....will eventually generate another list that the gun-grabbers might have access....especially now that they are suing the manufacturers.....

If you filled out ATF paperwork, I wouldn't worry about Manufacturer Warranty cards. Saying this, I have never filled out or mailed in a warranty card from anything I have purchased. Not from worry of Gov't tracking, but more from laziness or protection from marketing solicitations.

 

[Bhugo]

If you filled out ATF paperwork, I wouldn't worry about Manufacturer Warranty cards. Saying this, I have never filled out or mailed in a warranty card from anything I have purchased. Not from worry of Gov't tracking, but more from laziness or protection from marketing solicitations.

I fill them out online for Ruger. They send you a 25% off coupon for extra mags And what not if you do.

 

[OkieStubble]

I fill them out online for Ruger. They send you a 25% off coupon for extra mags And what not if you do.

Do they make information like your phone number a requirement online? Or just email, address?

 

[jar_]

Do they make information like your phone number a requirement online? Or just email, address?

No biggie if they did. My cell phone pretty much just sits at home.

 

[Columbo]

I think comparing the Glock 42 (G42) in .380 ACP and the S&W 442 in .38 Special is particularly relevant because they are not only identical in size and weight, the ammo they utilize performs practically identically as well. I have both of these handguns, albeit the 442 is relatively new to me compared to my G42. Here’s my take on these weapons.

View attachment 1072180


Primary vs Backup: There‘s a great deal of talk that the average shooting lasts one to three rounds, and that something like 99% of all shootings are negated by the mere drawing of a weapon. That might be all well and good, but generally speaking, we carry handguns as insurance policies. I don’t know about you, but I prefer full coverage when I insure, hence in a handgun it stands to reason that I’d prefer greater ammo capacity and faster reloads. The G42 clearly wins.

But neither of these guns, the G42 with 6+1 rounds, or the 442 with its 5, are what I’d call ideal primary guns. What they are is light and convenient! And that’s why they are sometimes all we have, especially in summer when clothing gets light. And in the summer, I’d say the G42 has the upper hand. Sure superhero's can load and shoot a revolver as fast as a semi, but for the rest of us, I’d say the G42 is a clear winner when it comes to getting rounds on target as fast as possible.

Of course it only takes one and when it comes to winter, being able to just throw the 442 in your pocket and fire though it, well now that’s a distinct advantage! If I could only have one... my Glock would get the call. Marginally. 7 really does seem like a ton more than 5 when you’re unloading quickly into a target.


Convenience: So like I alluded to before, these are guns you carry because everything else is too big. Or because you are recoil sensitive. Many argue saying guns are supposed to be comforting, not comfortable, but what a load. I’m not a cop or a mall ninja. I carry to protect me and mine. I carry 7 days a week, 365. I prefer small and light. I can and have packed a G26 for years, but it was never as convenient or nearly as comfortable as either of these guns. To the point of detriment. But this is really where the 442 shines!

The 442 is crazy convenient. I mean only one of these handguns is a real pocket gun in my opinion, and that’s the 442. Even with an Apex Tactical aftermarket trigger, there is no way the 442 is going to go off unless you’re actively pulling on the trigger. You can literally throw the gun in your pocket and go (not that I’m advocating it). No way you can do that without a holster if you have one in the chamber with the G42.

The ability to be able to put the gun in your hoodie’s pocket sans holster making it a one handed affaire just can’t be understated! When it comes to convenient, my vote goes hands down to the S&W 442.

View attachment 1072182
Only one of these handguns is “really“ a true pocket gun.


Which leads me to my final type of comparison between these two handguns - Piece of Mind. Or as some call it Reliability. I absolutely love my G42. I have a 43 as well. I have a lot of pistols. I think they are a better “fighting gun“ than revolvers, but if I was burying a million bucks and going to throw a handgun on top for later, it be the 442, not the Glock. I have no proof other than antidotal stories, but I’d be questioning if the mags would still push up the rounds after a decade of being loaded. Though I probably wouldn’t have to.

Moreover, I’ve had to change up all the springs in my G42. I shot the heck out of it, so thats what happens. It’ll happen eventually with the 442 too I’m guessing. But what sucks is, my carry ammo didn't feed reliably in the G42 afterword, and I had to find a new ammo... and now sit on hundreds in ammo I don’t know what to do with. That’ll never happen with a revolver.

Of course my G42 doesn’t shoot snake shot like my 442 does, and being I like shooting snake shot... so there is that too I guess.

View attachment 1072181


Conclusion: It’s really hard to compare two guns that are so closely “related.” I find the 442 way more sexy, but function is, as function does, and that makes the 42 a pretty awesome gun too. If I could only have one, I think I’d pick the G42. But as a hip or shoulder holstered gun. If I had to have a pocket gun - the 442 no question.

Between those two, the J-frame wins hands down with me. Mrs. Columbo carries a 642. It’s the perfect ‘belly gun’, and there is almost nothing that can go wrong with one when you need it. Don‘t let the caliber snobs scare you off of one for PD; a defensive .38 Special +P round can do a lot of damage at close range.

And you are right about the vast majority of PD encounters. They are not all scenes from Rambo, and rarely involve more than 4 rounds. Not that more isn’t better. But 5 is plenty, and infinitely better than none. All the additional complexity and maintenance of a semi action aren’t worth 2 extra rounds here IMO.

Mrs. Columbo’s only complaint with hers is that it is not a pleasant gun at the range. They are a bit snappy, and firing 20-25 practice rounds on one can leave a lady’s hand sore.