once again the oldies surprise me

[jar_]

I recently pulled a few of my old Sigs out of the safes and let them get a short range day. So far it's been three, a P220 45acp, P239 and P226 in 9mm. Only two short range trips and just a few rounds each time but so far a uniform result. I need to build a bigger sample size and add in the P230 and P229 before reaching even a tentative conclusion but so far it's surprising and encouraging.


I've been fighting a left bias in Point of Impact for some time and it's been pretty consistent regardless of distance or handgun or ammo or sight pattern or new gun or old gun or striker or hammer or DA or DA/SA. Until now the only real exception has been with some of my old Western Marshall SAA clones and even there the majority of rounds were left of POI but just a smaller grouping but my other revolvers also showed the larger left bias. It's hasn't been a major issue but all the patterns have seemed to fall slightly left of Point of Aim. With the three Sigs so far, even though it's been probably two decades since I last shot them have given me a pretty uniform distribution pattern. Granted I have not be concentrating on bullseye accuracy, all the sessions have been at SD distances and looking for SD patterns so anything in the 9 or 10 ring of a B-27 would satisfactory. It's sure nice though to see patterns balanced right and left for a change. The sights on the three so far are two 'Dot the I' and one Three Dot Night Sights so it doesn't seem that the sight pattern is the issue.


Trigger finger placement is the normal culprit but I didn't feel or notice any difference between the Sigs and any of the others and there has been so great a variety among those others that it should preclude a consistently different finger placement or control.


So the search will continue and I'm still betting on the answer being the shooter rather than what is shot.

 

[Kentos]

Man I wish I could dig in my safe a pull out some gems like that.

 

[jar_]

Man I wish I could dig in my safe a pull out some gems like that.

They are old and tired like me but still enjoy getting out and about.

And the two targets: the first was a total of 20 rounds, 11 with the P226 and 9 with the P239. I was testing a new 10 round magazine for the P226; I like having a 10 round option available since I did get caught back when the last 10 round nationwide rules went into effect. It worked, fed, fired, ejected and locked open after the last round.

 

[Kentos]

They are all nice, but that 220 is an ageless beauty.

 

[Climb14er]

I had the same three Sigs for a very long time. P220 .45ACP with a Virgil Tripp chroming on the slide, light grey. P239 in .357 Sig that I carried for many years. And finally a P226 Navy 9mm, perhaps one of the greatest pistols I ever shot. Since I was even more used to the single action trigger on a 1911, I made the decision to sell all three, for very good money and transition to a Glock 19. Now I carry a Sig P365 and could not be more content. The older Sigs are truly magnificent pistols.

 

[jar_]

I had the same three Sigs for a very long time. P220 .45ACP with a Virgil Tripp chroming on the slide, light grey. P239 in .357 Sig that I carried for many years. And finally a P226 Navy 9mm, perhaps one of the greatest pistols I ever shot. Since I was even more used to the single action trigger on a 1911, I made the decision to sell all three, for very good money and transition to a Glock 19. Now I carry a Sig P365 and could not be more content. The older Sigs are truly magnificent pistols.

I made the mistake of letting most of my Sigs go back in the mid 90s. I had a P225, P226 and the first SigPro SP2009. At the time I remember trading the P226 and P225 to the owner of Dan Wesson for a Pointman/Patriot semi custom. Don't remember what happened to the SP2009. Anyway, almost immediately I realized my mistake and so replaced the P226, added a P229 and P239 and since the DW turned out to be a nightmare a P220. Through it all I kept the P230 though.

The first group:

I also had a couple Sig P290RS, one in 380 and one 9mm but never really got comfortable with them so they went to Forever Homes.

 

[OkieStubble]

So the search will continue and I'm still betting on the answer being the shooter rather than what is shot.

The answer is always the shooter. Why? Because it’s the shooter’s who come in all shapes and sizes. Some have big hands and small hands, some have short fingers and longer fingers.

In my experience, the shooter’s with average to bigger hands and also have longer fingers, tend to have no troubles at all with the leverage and strength it takes to adequately pull the heavy trigger and hammer back in a double action pistol like a Sig.

But people with smaller hands and fingers where the wider grip and reach makes the length of pull which fills up their smaller hand, takes away the necessary leverage and their shorter trigger finger will not have the adequate strength to fire the first heavy DA shot accurately.

Don’t get me wrong, the DA first shot can still be fired, they just have trouble firing it as accurately as they want.

And depending on the amount of rounds being fired on range day, the more DA shots that are fired, the more fatigued the shooting hand and finger gets on those with smaller hands or fingers.

However, to say; it’s not the pistol isn’t quite accurate either, because in my experience, if you put the right pistol in the hands of those shooters to begin with, they can shoot just as well as any other shooter with a DA hammer fired pistol.

I know plenty of people just in this forum who love the Sig line of hammer fired pistols, but also confess that they dislike the grip angle and feel of the striker fired Glock and can’t shoot the Glock well.

And those are guys who can shoot the Sig very well and vice versa.

I shoot most brands and type of pistols just fine because it’s what we all do here. I shoot DA Sig’s just fine. And while I have an average sized hand and palms, my fingers are shorter, fat stubby things. Makes my hands look like ham hocks. .

After a half dozen DA pulls on a DA pistol, I can clearly notice the fatigue setting into my shorter trigger finger because of the over extended reach and increased leverage and strength it takes to overcome the extended reach and pull from trigger to backstrap and the accuracy on my first DA shots begin to suffer because of this. Since I always train for reality, that first DA shot placement is very important to me and an errant, inaccurate first shot is totally unacceptable to me personally, no matter If I can 4 leaf clover the remaining 14 shots in single action.

So In my case, It’s not the shooter, it’s the type of pistol in my hand when I’m shooting.

I’m sure it’s the same for the guy who just can’t get that Glock to point where he wants it to point because he’s used to shooting Sig’s.

 

[jar_]

The answer is always the shooter. Why? Because it’s the shooter’s who come in all shapes and sizes. Some have big hands and small hands, some have short fingers and longer fingers.

In my experience, the shooter’s with average to bigger hands and also have longer fingers, tend to have no troubles at all with the leverage and strength it takes to adequately pull the heavy trigger and hammer back in a double action pistol like a Sig.

But people with smaller hands and fingers where the wider grip and reach makes the length of pull which fills up their smaller hand, takes away the necessary leverage and their shorter trigger finger will not have the adequate strength to fire the first heavy DA shot accurately.

Don’t get me wrong, the DA first shot can still be fired, they just have trouble firing it as accurately as they want.

And depending on the amount of rounds being fired on range day, the more DA shots that are fired, the more fatigued the shooting hand and finger gets on those with smaller hands or fingers.

However, to say; it’s not the pistol isn’t quite accurate either, because in my experience, if you put the right pistol in the hands of those shooters to begin with, they can shoot just as well as any other shooter with a DA hammer fired pistol.

I know plenty of people just in this forum who love the Sig line of hammer fired pistols, but also confess that they dislike the grip angle and feel of the striker fired Glock and can’t shoot the Glock well.

And those are guys who can shoot the Sig very well and vice versa.

I shoot most brands and type of pistols just fine because it’s what we all do here. I shoot DA Sig’s just fine. And while I have an average sized hand and palms, my fingers are shorter, fat stubby things. Makes my hands look like ham hocks. .

After a half dozen DA pulls on a DA pistol, I can clearly notice the fatigue setting into my shorter trigger finger because of the over extended reach and increased leverage and strength it takes to overcome the extended reach and pull from trigger to backstrap and the accuracy on my first DA shots begin to suffer because of this. Since I always train for reality, that first DA shot placement is very important to me and an errant, inaccurate first shot is totally unacceptable to me personally, no matter If I can 4 leaf clover the remaining 14 shots in single action.

So In my case, It’s not the shooter, it’s the type of pistol in my hand when I’m shooting.

I’m sure it’s the same for the guy who just can’t get that Glock to point where he wants it to point because he’s used to shooting Sig’s.

The constant factor in my struggles with left bias has been that it was consistent across hammer versus striker, SA versus DAO versus DA/SA, lighter versus heavier, larger versus smaller, across the same gun with various sized back straps, pistol vs revolver; consistent until the Sigs came out of storage.

SW99 Large, then medium then small backstrap:

SA, DA/SA, DAO:

Light weight Striker vs heavy Hammer:

And then the Sigs:

The change was dramatic and sudden and repeated five days apart and with three different pistols in two different calibers.

 

[jar_]

Family portrait.

 

[Acmemfg]

Always had good luck with Sig Sauer. Sure wish I had my old West German P225.

 

[jar_]

View attachment 1791279View attachment 1791280View attachment 1791281
Always had good luck with Sig Sauer. Sure wish I had my old West German P225.

The P225 was one of the two Sig I could never shoot well; the other was the P290RS where the trigger resonance & vibrations simply hurt with every shot in both 380 and 9mm.

The one I'd like to find would be the first SigPro, the SP2009.

 

[Lockback]

They are all nice, but that 220 is an ageless beauty.

I had two of them Back In The Day.
Wish I still had 'em.

 

[Acmemfg]

I once read the SIG P220 was regarded as the "most battle worthy" sidearm out there. I can easily see why.
Years back I picked mine up from an East Tennessee dealer who advised it was a police trade in from (he thought) South Carolina. It looked nearly brand new. Was set up with Tritium night sights and a factory Short Reset Trigger. 3 magazines and hard case. Think it was about $550.00. Couple legit holsters (R. Grizzle top, Sam Andrews middle) and a set of Hogue Pau Fero grips and we are good to go.
......one of my better acquisitions

 

[Kentos]

Darn, I got over the AD for a p220 a while ago, this thread isn’t helping lol.

 

[jar_]

Latest update on the Left Bias tests.

Got to the range today after Customs & Border Patrol finished and tried three more pistols; all hammer fired. I had the Walther PK380, the P230 and the P229. The two Sigs were a delight and all shots relatively centered. By that I mean I was equally right and left inept. The PK380 though was definitely left bias and in trying different trigger positions I ended up pulling several shots WAY right.

And I found the original magazines for my P220; two old 7 round zipper backs. Happy Dance but no idea why they were in with the herd of P230 magazines.