Are there different grades of BBS?

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

BBS is just as controversial as pretty much anything else related to shaving. Some folks barely have any whiskers on their face and for them 2 pass shave is more than enough to achieve a BBS while others have to do a lot more than that and even then their faces still have a permanent black dots which they can't remove no matter how much they try.

My definiton of BBS is that when i'm done shaving, my face feels around 95% extremely smooth and the 5% is barely noticable mostly in some parts on my neck, chin and moustache. Since I have only one face equiped with one type of skin and whiskers, I can only imagine what others might consider as BBS, but if they feel like they have achieved one, then that's that matters.

There are other definitions like DFS (damn fine shave) and CCS (close, comfortable shave) and lots of folks are happy with them and they don't give a damn about BBS. Keep in mind that people back in the day when DE razors were popular and pretty much everyone was using one, the 3-4-10 pass shaves as well as BBS, DFS, CCS and many other things never existed back then and I bet most folks back then were doing one pass shaves with maybe a little bit of touch up and that's it.

Some folks are even rubbing cotton on their faces as a test if they've achieved a BBS or not. I'm not judging anyone and I really don't care what others are doing. If whatever they are doing it working, then good for them.

Thank you for this post, as I can relate. I just did a shave today that some parts would be considered BBS, while other parts DFS. This is because I am one of those folks who have difficult course thick wiry whiskers, and they grow out densely.

This means that even after doing a WTG, XTG, and ATG, enough to knick myself in places in the process, I still didn't achieve a BBS everywhere, and I don't think I ever will. Also, I might be running into a new issue where the blade is getting dull, its kind of hard for me to tell.

Since I am a new DE shaver, I don't have much experience, except for the first experiences that I am going through now. But my face can be a real pain to shave. Cause I don't just have to deal with my course hair, but I am also deal with tiny moles on my face that I keep knicking.

So for me, while I do prefer a BBS shave most certainly, I have to accept, that I just have one of those faces where its not easy to achieve that. I got to work hard to get a BBS, and I more often then not just end up cutting myself in the process. Todays shave is proof of that after doing all those passes.

So I agree, if its too much difficulty trying to get a BBS just stop. This is what I am going to have to train myself up on. Cause while I want a BBS, well, sometimes my face says no, so ya. It is what it is. Truth is, a DFS is already better then anything anybody got back in the 1940's with a DE razor.

Just as you said, the technology of DE razors back in the day were no where near as good as today, and folks didn't have all the options available to them that we have today. So most folks got less then a DFS back in the day, and what would that be anyway, whats less then a DFS, I don't know lol.

Maybe like your saying, making just one or two passes?

 

[JanVanDerVoort]

I doubt if many who claim a BBS shave result actually get that 100% over their whole face.

I would like to believe so too. Your definition of BBS, BBS–, DFS+, DFS should be schoolbook material on this forum!
By now, my idea of what I could expect from a straight/razor is more realistic: you mainly (or manly?) do it for the fun of it, not for better results.

 

[JanVanDerVoort]

View attachment 1428429

The Citroen DS, dolphin smooth...
(I understand that the French pronounciation of DS, sounds like déesse (goddess))

 

[JanVanDerVoort]

I can get BBS where no whiskers are felt by my fingers rubbing in any direction. It lasts about an hour+ with a DE. It might last as much as 3 or 4 hours when shaving with a straight razor. Is there a difference?

Could the 'mythical' (?) difference between DE and SR be the result of the skin stretching you do with an SR? I barely do skin stretching with my DE...

 

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

do it for the fun of it, not for better results.

And this I am having to remind myself. My OCD wants nothing but perfection. I have to fight the urge to do that, and just have fun.

 

[JanVanDerVoort]

I can only get a BBS under my jawline and chin with an aggressive DE razor (Ikon Tek, Merkur Futur wide open, etc.).

Tell me about the under-the-jawline area! There's no skill involved in getting a smooth shave on the cheeks.
This is also the reason I believe only the Fatip Open Comb or Mühle R41 give me the result I want. On top of that I noticed that instead of looking up to stretch the under the jawline skin, I get a better result looking down and 'bulging' the skin and than shave with very very little pressure ATG. And why would it be that only an inconspicious Willy's blade can give me the desired result without any hint of nicks or razor burn?

 

[JanVanDerVoort]

And this I am having to remind myself. My OCD wants nothing but perfection. I have to fight the urge to do that, and just have fun.

Now I only need to be able to convince my wife, about the kind of fun I'd like to have ;-)
I was checking the Bundubeard (South Africa) the other day and they have a Feather AC DX for ZAR2,990/US$199 (Pearl) or ZAR3,290/US$219 (Teak). So my wife walks in and tells me in a saying voice 'We're not going to do that, are we?'

 

[Star_Wahl_Clipper_Treker]

Now I only need to be able to convince my wife, about the kind of fun I'd like to have ;-)
I was checking the Bundubeard (South Africa) the other day and they have a Feather AC DX for ZAR2,990/US$199 (Pearl) or ZAR3,290/US$219 (Teak). So my wife walks in and tells me in a saying voice 'We're not going to do that, are we?'

And tell her in response. Ohhhhh yes we are! And your coming with me on the journey. LOL!

 

[Jack Goossen]

From most safety razors it is impossible to get what I consider a BBS shave.

It would take a safety razor with generous blade gap and positive blade exposure so that - just like with a straight razor - the edge of the blade is in direct contact with the skin.

Most safety razors have a slightly negative blade exposure, the blade is therefore not in direct contact with the skin and they cannot provide the kind of shave that I define as BBS.
There are some however (e.g. Tatararazors Masamune Nodachi, or Tatararazors Muramasa at one of the higher settings) that do have a positive blade exposure and they can provide outstanding results that closely match a straight razor shave.

What one considers BBS largely depends on one’s personal experience and is therefore highly subjective.
What I would have considered a BBS in my early shaving days (not sure whether that term then existed) I might barely call a DFS nowadays.

Fingertip and fingernail can provide a good tactile and aural feedback when lightly scratching the skin.
If I feel and hear the resistance of stubble, it just cannot be a BBS shave in my book.

But others may read from entirely different books, which is fine by me…


B.

Get a vintage bakelite.
But know how to use them little freaks.
BBS guaranteed if you do.
Or else....

 

[GaryTha]

I have two shave ratings: Bloody Shave (BS) and No Blood Shave (No BS). I think blood on the collar as a result of striving for a B BS looks worse than a few stray whiskers.

 

[Jack Goossen]

Tell me about the under-the-jawline area! There's no skill involved in getting a smooth shave on the cheeks.
This is also the reason I believe only the Fatip Open Comb or Mühle R41 give me the result I want. On top of that I noticed that instead of looking up to stretch the under the jawline skin, I get a better result looking down and 'bulging' the skin and than shave with very very little pressure ATG. And why would it be that only an inconspicious Willy's blade can give me the desired result without any hint of nicks or razor burn?

Your name sounds Dutch or Flemmish. If so: you could borrow one of my bakelite freaks. Let's see if you'll think the same after using it. Or the Yaqi Aggamemnon
One factor you cannot discard: use a top notch soap, like A & E. You might ask @RayClem about what soap would be the best match for you. I for one learned a great deal from him. He's a fine example of how supportive members at B&B are.

 

[BradWorld]

A BBS for me requires the cotton ball test. If you can rub the cotton ball everywhere on your face, in all directions, and not have it pull any fibers, then you have a bbs. Anything less is not bbs. This is a very difficult achievement for me, as I have a couple of spots on my neck that grow in swirls and have whiskers growing flat to the skin. But when the stars align I can do it. I just don’t strive for it. When it happens, it’s great. But I can get to a DFS+ mostly every shave.

 

[rbscebu]

I would like to believe so too. Your definition of BBS, BBS–, DFS+, DFS should be schoolbook material on this forum!
By now, my idea of what I could expect from a straight/razor is more realistic: you mainly (or manly?) do it for the fun of it, not for better results.

Most SR shavers do get better results. It depends on what you mean by better results.

I believe that SR shaving does cut your whiskers closer to the skin than many "safety" razors do. This is evident by say a DFS (roughness only felt ATG) result lasts longer before it starts to become a CCS (roughness felt in all directions except WTG, or a CCS becoming a SAS (roughness felt in all directions but whiskers not visible unless closely looking).

It is now 12 hours since my morning DFS+ shave. Feeling my face now, I am just starting to feel some faint roughness XTG.

A SR shave is also better because with a good technique, you get less (or no) skin irritation. I put this down to having better control at the blade/skin interface.

If I want a BBS- result I can get it with a SR. However, such a result gives me basically nothing the shave 24 hours later. Less SR shaving enjoyment. I expect that the same BBS- result from a "safety" razor would give me something to shave 24 hours later.

 

[JanVanDerVoort]

And tell her in response. Ohhhhh yes we are! And your coming with me on the journey. LOL!

I'm a Belgian citizen living in Zimbabwe, married to a Zimbabwean woman. The British rule (remember Rhodesia...) have made people maybe more 'western' than in neighbouring countries. However, there's still a remnant left of the old culture involving sangomas (witch doctors), muti (spells) and black magic. And although I believe jack sh** of it, when straight razors are involved I'm not going to take any chances ;-)

 

[Jack Goossen]

A BBS for me requires the cotton ball test. If you can rub the cotton ball everywhere on your face, in all directions, and not have it pull any fibers, then you have a bbs. Anything less is not bbs. This is a very difficult achievement for me, as I have a couple of spots on my neck that grow in swirls and have whiskers growing flat to the skin. But when the stars align I can do it. I just don’t strive for it. When it happens, it’s great. But I can get to a DFS+ mostly every shave.

When I acquired a better technique (after shaving for a month with same kit) I was able to get closer shaves. Having said that: I am focussed on my head shaves. It seems much easier to achieve BBS on my skull. My beard rarely gets full BBS, but I don't put much effort in getting there anyway. There usually is some miniscule stubble left, but I mind not. This is probably related to my old man's loose skin under the chin?

 

[JanVanDerVoort]

A BBS for me requires the cotton ball test.

Besides tobacco, cotton is a major export product for Zimbabwe bringing in much needed forex in the country. I'm not going to jeopardize it. I'll use metal wool balls instead to try this out!

 

[JanVanDerVoort]

Your name sounds Dutch or Flemmish. If so: you could borrow one of my bakelite freaks. Let's see if you'll think the same after using it. Or the Yaqi Aggamemnon
One factor you cannot discard: use a top notch soap, like A & E. You might ask @RayClem about what soap would be the best match for you. I for one learned a great deal from him. He's a fine example of how supportive members at B&B are.

My name is very Flemish, but I live on the other side of the globe now, Zimbabwe. My name is often mistaken for an Afrikaner boer, which I'm not too happy with ;-) That's why I need a close shave, to differentiate between an old-worlder and an Afrikaner ;-)
I do have some soaps that I believe are the best around: Martin de Candre, Tabac, Master Soap Creations, RazoRock SMN...
I learned for SE shaves it's good to make the lather just a tad wetter.

 

[AimlessWanderer]

If I run my fingers lightly over my skin in all directions, and feel no stubble whatsoever, that's baby smooth in my book. Not a level I strive for at every shave. I'm generally happy to tolerate the slightest hint of stubble when stroked against the grain, particularly on the neck.

Nearly all my shaves are done with double edged razors, as that is my preferred system. I can get just as good a shave with a straight, although it will take more time, and I won't enjoy the shave as much. Straight razors do not give me a better shave than I can achieve with a double edge razor. Occasionally it's fun to use a straight just for the novelty factor, but other than that, it offers me no benefit.

With both razor types, I can overstretch my skin, and prat around seeking a longer period of being entirely stubble free, but that just means shearing the hairs further below the surface, and my frizzy beard would simply punish me with ingrown hairs. I know the limits of closeness that my skin will tolerate, and can get there in comfort with my preferred razors and blades .

 

[rbscebu]

....
I learned for SE shaves it's good to make the lather just a tad wetter.

Do you mean SE (single edge) "safety" razor or SR (straight razor)?

 

[rbscebu]

If I run my fingers lightly over my skin in all directions, and feel no stubble whatsoever, that's baby smooth in my book. Not a level I strive for at every shave. I'm generally happy to tolerate the slightest hint of stubble when stroked against the grain, particularly on the neck.

Nearly all my shaves are done with double edged razors, as that is my preferred system. I can get just as good a shave with a straight, although it will take more time, and I won't enjoy the shave as much. Straight razors do not give me a better shave than I can achieve with a double edge razor. Occasionally it's fun to use a straight just for the novelty factor, but other than that, it offers me no benefit.

With both razor types, I can overstretch my skin, and prat around seeking a longer period of being entirely stubble free, but that just means shearing the hairs further below the surface, and my frizzy beard would simply punish me with ingrown hairs. I know the limits of closeness that my skin will tolerate, and can get there in comfort with my preferred razors and blades .

It's all about enjoyment. You should shave with whatever method gives you the enjoyment level that you are satisfied with, be that, a clam shell, electric, carts, "safety" razors or straight razors.