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Are there different grades of BBS?

It's all about enjoyment. You should shave with whatever method gives you the enjoyment level that you are satisfied with, be that, a clam shell, electric, carts, "safety" razors or straight razors.
The idea of "BBS" probably helps to sell lots of products that people don't really need.

"Hmm. I'm only getting a DFS+ at the moment. Maybe if I buy the Blood Letter 3000 and two hundred and fifty NOS blades I'll get the shave I really want..."
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
A BBS for me requires the cotton ball test. If you can rub the cotton ball everywhere on your face, in all directions, and not have it pull any fibers, then you have a bbs. Anything less is not bbs. This is a very difficult achievement for me, as I have a couple of spots on my neck that grow in swirls and have whiskers growing flat to the skin. But when the stars align I can do it. I just don’t strive for it. When it happens, it’s great. But I can get to a DFS+ mostly every shave.
Finally.... a use for all those pieces of cotton used to keep pills from knocking together during shipment....
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
Our sons are in their 40s now... so it's been a while since I felt a baby's bottom. I don't really think my face will ever feel that smooth.. regardless. That being said, I'm getting pretty smooth shaves with my AC Single Edge Claymore Evolution. And it's a joy to use.

I would love to feel confident enough to try a straight razor, but I'm not, no matter how many times people say I could learn. I did fine carpentry work over about 1/3 of my working years. I only relate that to say... I know my hands. They aren't what they used to be.
 
Sorry, typo, should be SR...
That being said, I started my wet shaving 'career' with a Supply Single Edge. Was it the system, was it the blades I don't know but it didn't work at all for me...
I then also got a RazoRock Hawk because inexperienced me bought a box of Feather ProGuards that I thought were compatible with the Supply and I wanted to use the blades. And although it gave me pretty smooth shaves, the aluminium construction felt too light to me. So now I still have a box of 14 Feather Pro Guards, waiting for a Feather AC DX shavette...

I'd never consider a real straight razor as the honing/stropping part would reduce the fun of it to <0. And I do not believe there is a local craftsman here in Bulawayo, Zimbabwe who could do it for me. (I always believed local rural people to have divine sharpening skills for knives (or machetes) but I was appalled. I keep my knives sharper by just looking at the edge...)
 
Thank you for this post, as I can relate. I just did a shave today that some parts would be considered BBS, while other parts DFS. This is because I am one of those folks who have difficult course thick wiry whiskers, and they grow out densely.

This means that even after doing a WTG, XTG, and ATG, enough to knick myself in places in the process, I still didn't achieve a BBS everywhere, and I don't think I ever will. Also, I might be running into a new issue where the blade is getting dull, its kind of hard for me to tell.

Since I am a new DE shaver, I don't have much experience, except for the first experiences that I am going through now. But my face can be a real pain to shave. Cause I don't just have to deal with my course hair, but I am also deal with tiny moles on my face that I keep knicking.

So for me, while I do prefer a BBS shave most certainly, I have to accept, that I just have one of those faces where its not easy to achieve that. I got to work hard to get a BBS, and I more often then not just end up cutting myself in the process. Todays shave is proof of that after doing all those passes.

So I agree, if its too much difficulty trying to get a BBS just stop. This is what I am going to have to train myself up on. Cause while I want a BBS, well, sometimes my face says no, so ya. It is what it is. Truth is, a DFS is already better then anything anybody got back in the 1940's with a DE razor.

Just as you said, the technology of DE razors back in the day were no where near as good as today, and folks didn't have all the options available to them that we have today. So most folks got less then a DFS back in the day, and what would that be anyway, whats less then a DFS, I don't know lol.

Maybe like your saying, making just one or two passes?

All I'm saying is that everyone should shave himself to the best of his abilities and as much as his face allows him to. This is a very heated topic, since some folks think that getting the best shaving results is all about having great technique and skill and if you fail then its your fault and not your face, skin ot the tools that you're using.

Like i said countless times already - theres no question that good technique and skill are very important, but so does the skin of your face and the whiskers you have, but like i said some folks don't agree on the last part and for them one must be a master jedi like Yoda if he wants to get perfect BBS shaves without even the slightest issues every time. Of couse those who have it easy will say such a thing and tell everyone who disagrees with them that its the persons fault not the tools his using, but that's not absolutely 100% always the case. No two humans are the same in a way of feeling things, doing things, thinking or having the exactly the same genes and bodies and those differences are the reason why we're having different opinions and results from doing the same things.
 
So it seems from my noob perspective that there can be a trade-off between level of skin irritation and smoothness of shave from multiple directional passes. I am very satisfied and enjoy my dfs, dfs+ shaves so that's what matters to me. I ordered but never used a five (5) blade cartridge razor back in January but it took so long to be delivered that I already had a couple of DE razors and were using them when the cart razor arrived. Never took it out of the box. I get the multi blade idea to get a close shave but would think the skin irritation level would go way up. Not even interested to try it. Happy to be here on B&B!
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
This is a very heated topic, since some folks think that getting the best shaving results is all about having great technique and skill and if you fail then its your fault and not your face, skin ot the tools that you're using.

I'm a very technique oriented person, but then I've had 30 years to get really good (Jedi good, to use your words) with one type of shaving tool, on one face. The first 20 years of which were using the same razor and blade type.

I don't particularly enjoy using different razors, not because they don't suit my face, but because they don't necessarily suit my methods, or I have to "compromise" my techniques to get back to the great shaves I was getting before.

In many ways, my skin is actually quite easy to shave, but the hair isn't. The skin is reasonably taught, with no heavy creases, or cleft chin, etc. However, the beard is frizzy, so frizzy it can seem like the grain (which kind of looks like a dropped jigsaw anyway) is subtly shifting from week to week. I'm also highly prone to ingrown hairs, and the roots are easily disturbed and rather susceptible to inflammation from tugging too.

So for me, technique is everything... so long as I'm sticking to the same base kit. Change the kit, and my competence plummets. It takes me ages to tune in to that new razor... and then takes me ages to settle back in with my primary razor again when I return. Far too many compromised shaves along the route. My neurological issues give me enough of a challenge as it is, without shifting the goalposts (and are another reason why technique is such a focal point for me)

But change one thing, and you change the whole equation. Everything else seems to have to change a little too, to compensate for the first change. the soaps, creams, brushes, razors I've settled on, are all compatible with my deeply ingrained methods. I could of course refine my techniques to suit new kit, but that's just making life harder than it needs to be, with no benefit at the end of it.

Maybe if I hadn't done a 20 year "apprenticeship" with the same razor, my mindset might be different. Likewise if my skin was more problematic, or my growth less problematic. However, my shaves revolve around the cards I have been dealt, in terms of skin, hair, bone structure, and neurological disorders, and so long as I don't confuse matters further with unnecessary change, I can get my very best shaves focussing purely on technique.

I'm not sure if all that correlates with your perspective, or conflicts with it.
 
I'm a very technique oriented person, but then I've had 30 years to get really good (Jedi good, to use your words) with one type of shaving tool, on one face. The first 20 years of which were using the same razor and blade type.

I don't particularly enjoy using different razors, not because they don't suit my face, but because they don't necessarily suit my methods, or I have to "compromise" my techniques to get back to the great shaves I was getting before.

In many ways, my skin is actually quite easy to shave, but the hair isn't. The skin is reasonably taught, with no heavy creases, or cleft chin, etc. However, the beard is frizzy, so frizzy it can seem like the grain (which kind of looks like a dropped jigsaw anyway) is subtly shifting from week to week. I'm also highly prone to ingrown hairs, and the roots are easily disturbed and rather susceptible to inflammation from tugging too.

So for me, technique is everything... so long as I'm sticking to the same base kit. Change the kit, and my competence plummets. It takes me ages to tune in to that new razor... and then takes me ages to settle back in with my primary razor again when I return. Far too many compromised shaves along the route. My neurological issues give me enough of a challenge as it is, without shifting the goalposts (and are another reason why technique is such a focal point for me)

But change one thing, and you change the whole equation. Everything else seems to have to change a little too, to compensate for the first change. the soaps, creams, brushes, razors I've settled on, are all compatible with my deeply ingrained methods. I could of course refine my techniques to suit new kit, but that's just making life harder than it needs to be, with no benefit at the end of it.

Maybe if I hadn't done a 20 year "apprenticeship" with the same razor, my mindset might be different. Likewise if my skin was more problematic, or my growth less problematic. However, my shaves revolve around the cards I have been dealt, in terms of skin, hair, bone structure, and neurological disorders, and so long as I don't confuse matters further with unnecessary change, I can get my very best shaves focussing purely on technique.

I'm not sure if all that correlates with your perspective, or conflicts with it.

That's true. Shaving with only one razor for many years will definetly improve your expirience a lot more than shaving with different razors all the time. There's a reason why we tend to like some razors and stay away from others. The same goes with the mild vs aggresive razors. Some of those who prefer mild razors think that their shaving skills are better, because for whatever reason they think that it takes skill to get closer shave with a mild and not super efficient razors while the aggressive and super efficient razors are way easier to use and therefore are used primarily by unskilled people.

I don't really know from where people come up with those theories and conclusions giving the fact that we're all different and we have only one face to experiment with. There's plenty of truths on this and other shaving forums and groups, but there's also lots of myths, legends, unproven stuff and as well as bs spread around that needs to be debunked once and for all.
 

AimlessWanderer

Remember to forget me!
There's plenty of truths on this and other shaving forums and groups, but there's also lots of myths, legends, unproven stuff and as well as bs spread around that needs to be debunked once and for all.

... but because we're all different, one person's bunkum is another's truth. Sometimes the "myths and legends", are just thing that work for others, and not for us.

My primary razor (Edwin Jagger) is a fairly mild, zinc alloy cast, and according to some, has blade rigidity issues. I could passionately "debunk" other people's opinions about fragility, corrosion, blade chatter, or efficiency to my hearts content, but that won't change anyone else's experiences with that razor family. :biggrin1:
 

thombrogan

Lounging On The Isle Of Tugsley.
Some of those who prefer mild razors think that their shaving skills are better, because for whatever reason they think that it takes skill to get closer shave with a mild and not super efficient razors while the aggressive and super efficient razors are way easier to use and therefore are used primarily by unskilled people.

To the credit of that belief, that’s exactly why I use aggressive-ish razors like the Fatip Grande, GEM Micromatic Open Comb, and RazoRock Hawk V3OC. When I use a Yaqi Mellon or 2013-R41, the below jawline stubble consistently gets missed and I feel like my whiskers are tougher than most people when other razors don’t give me that perception so I assume I’m doing it wrong.
 
... but because we're all different, one person's bunkum is another's truth. Sometimes the "myths and legends", are just thing that work for others, and not for us.

My primary razor (Edwin Jagger) is a fairly mild, zinc alloy cast, and according to some, has blade rigidity issues. I could passionately "debunk" other people's opinions about fragility, corrosion, blade chatter, or efficiency to my hearts content, but that won't change anyone else's experiences with that razor family. :biggrin1:

Exactly, we're all different, but just because something works better for me and I can do something with an absolute ease compared to many others that doesn't automatically means that i'm super skilled like Neo from the Matrix and that my truth is absolute and if someone disagrees with me, then it's his fault. Which is exactly what some folks emply when they talk about shaving skills in general. Like I said many times, I have no issues with different opinions or points of view, but I don't like when someone copy pastes slaps the good ol story about the worker blaming his tools for his incompetence every time such debates take place.

I'm by no means the mr. Miyagi of wet shaving, but i've been shaving only with DE and recently with SE razors for the past 7 years now and i'm pretty sure that at the very least my technique and skill are on a decent level. Let's not forget that we're talking about shaving here and not some magical and mystical arts given to us by some extradementional race or something.
 
To the credit of that belief, that’s exactly why I use aggressive-ish razors like the Fatip Grande, GEM Micromatic Open Comb, and RazoRock Hawk V3OC. When I use a Yaqi Mellon or 2013-R41, the below jawline stubble consistently gets missed and I feel like my whiskers are tougher than most people when other razors don’t give me that perception so I assume I’m doing it wrong.

Exactly. Even on Youtube, you can see plenty of people who barely have any stubble on their faces and they talk about different razors, blades and what not with the confidence that they are some kinds of shave gurus and experts who have super hard and dense beards like the pirate Black Beard does.

I consider my beard to be very dense and coarse, but it's nothing in comparison to my brother's beard, which is even more dense and after a week of not shaving, I can barely see the skin of his face and I often call him Black Beard :D. He doesn't shave with DE razors though and only uses electric shavers and cartridges.
 

Phoenixkh

I shaved a fortune
Exactly. Even on Youtube, you can see plenty of people who barely have any stubble on their faces and they talk about different razors, blades and what not with the confidence that they are some kinds of shave gurus and experts who have super hard and dense beards like the pirate Black Beard does.

I consider my beard to be very dense and coarse, but it's nothing in comparison to my brother's beard, which is even more dense and after a week of not shaving, I can barely see the skin of his face and I often call him Black Beard :D. He doesn't shave with DE razors though and only uses electric shavers and cartridges.
I esp. love the YouTubers with facial hair so fine, a cat could like it off. Watching them shave is hilarious though I've never made it all the way through one of their videos.
 
... but because we're all different, one person's bunkum is another's truth. Sometimes the "myths and legends", are just thing that work for others, and not for us.

My primary razor (Edwin Jagger) is a fairly mild, zinc alloy cast, and according to some, has blade rigidity issues. I could passionately "debunk" other people's opinions about fragility, corrosion, blade chatter, or efficiency to my hearts content, but that won't change anyone else's experiences with that razor family. :biggrin1:
Your experience illustrates the irrelevance of product reviews, other than for entertainment.
 
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