am i backhoning? what am i doing here?

[kansascutthroat]

ok--had a jemico 4 side paddle strop for years. used to draw the razor on the stone (like stropping) then go to the leathers. worked great for years.
recently upgraded myself to spyderco hones and a couple hanging strops. now i admit, im the kinda guy that cant sharpen anything. i use the medium to get an edge going, the go to the fine, then ultra fine. the edge is great, shaves great, happy as hell. the problem--when i strop the edge falls off! i have even laid the strops flat and went slow cause i figure my angle is screwed up. keeps messing up the edge.
today, i took the fine spyderco, and just lightly stropped a few strokes like you would on leather and BOOM! my edge was back. ok, the dumb question--are you supposed to use a stone and draw away from the edge like that to touch up on occasion? it worked great but i am getting totally confused at what the hell i am doing wrong!!

 

[Kees]

Do you pull the hanging strop really taut? The ultrafine hone gives an ultrafine edge that is easily damaged by a hanging strop.

I hope you do not inadvertently lift the spine off the leather? That occasionally happens to me when I open the razor to a 135 degree angle.

 

[cityjim]

Sounds like your strop might be at fault . From your words the hones are working ok .

Do you warm the leather prior to stropping ? Rubbing your hand over it letting your skin oils get into the leather ? Do you keep the blade flat on the leather ? Pull the strop nice and tight ?

Do you live in a dry climate ? Have you ever treated the strop with a candle or maybe extra virgin olive oil , neats foot or baseball glove oil ? I usually take some EVOO and rub it into my palms . Getting it all nice and warm . Then pat the leather in this order , end middle end . Then between one end and the middle and then the remaining spot between middle and end pats . Then rub the EVOO into the leather and warm it up nicely . This spreads the oil and restores the draw .

Are you pushing your razor "edge first" on the strop ? The spine leads the direction of travel while stropping . Edge of course following . Had to ask .

On hones the edge normally leads . Actually on hones it doen't matter much . Look at how the Japanese use a forward and back motion when they sharpen . Works for them as they have some of the deadliest blades around . I actually do that when I use my Spyderco UF hone . Puts a killer polish on the edge .


cityjim

 

[mparker762]

Yes you're backhoning. You're better off mastering the edge-forward stroke, which is a bit harder to learn but is much less prone to burr production. It will still produce them but they tend to be much much smaller. The edge-following stroke makes it easier to achieve sharp edges, but it is also notorious for creating wire edges on a razor. Some stones are less prone to this than others. The Norton 4k/8k combination hone is notorious for creating wire edges, while the Japanese Nakayama waterstones will let you get away with it. A wire edge can be very sharp but is often quite weak, and can even break off into your skin while you're shaving, leaving you with something that looks like a 3-inch long paper cut until the wire starts rusting. You may have read that on the HHT you want the hair to topple over silently instead of pinging away from the blade - the reason for this is that the pinging action is one of the indicators that you have a wire or burr edge.

If you follow up the stone with pastes then these will tend to remove the wire, but if you're following up the stone with pastes then you don't need to get the razor very sharp with the stone anyway...

The immediate problem however is your stropping - the strop should *not* dull the edge unless your finishing hone is something like 0.1 micron diamond or 0.05 micron Linde "B" or plain newspaper. The hanging strop is faster than the paddle strop because they're usually wider and much longer so you don't need as many laps to get the job done; however they are much trickier to master. You've tried laying the strop down on a table and that didn't help, so sag doesn't seem to be your problem. What brand of strop are you using, and is it pasted with anything? What type of leather is on it, how is it treated, and are you using the linen side of the strop and is it treated with anything?

 

[kansascutthroat]

hi and thanks for the responses. i use an old case red imp strop treated with neatsfoot oil, it seems to have a nice draw to it (to me anyway), and i also have a jemico red russian/linen strop that i applied dovo red paste to.
i have not tried the russian laying flat yet, i was having really bad luck after pasting it and trying to use it hanging up.

 

[chess1]

kansascutthroat most of my life i have seen only back honing. My grandfather used straight entire his life (125 years) and i have seen what he is doing. when i come to this country and when i saw people are talking back honing and forward honing i thought this people are crazy.
My advise learn forward honing and you will not regret. you will get better smooth edges( i am sure back honing gets very sharp edge) then back honing.
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