About to throw in towel. Any books on honing?

[Gamma]

"I have very limited honing experience."

then get some.

Put the steel on the stone and hone it.
I have never needed 50 laps on a 12k.
But I have done many hundreds on a 10x3" Ark. Diminishing returns applies at some point.

Thing is - edge condition determines the work load. Can't say with authority what to expect since every edge is going to be different. Generally speaking, a 'touch up' is a fast exercise.

Wet 12k stone, lap stone, chamfer edges, prove flatness, do 10 laps with minimal pressure; see if that that improved things.

Or stay online talking about doing it for another week or two or 3. Eventually the edge needs to be honed though.

 

[Honedright]

If you’re still interested, find a copy of “The Art and Science of Barbering” by L. Sherman Trusty. Everything is covered, including how to hone, types of hones, and how to care for hones… and much more: strops, stropping, shaving brushes, and other barber tools, etc… probably more information than you would want on barbering, hair cutting, etc. But the sections on honing, stropping and shaving contain everything you really need to get started. The only thing you need to add is practice, practice, practice.

 

[alx gilmore]

Update on About to Throw in the Towel, any books on the subject?

I have written a book with a couple three chapters on honing razors along with photos. There are also chapters on knife shapening. I can send you a copy or you can buy it on Amazon as "Japanese Sharpening Stone Heaven, Narutaki Awasedo".
About 200 pages.

Alx

 

[cajunrph]

Welp I did the 10 on the Niniwa. We shall see how it shaves. Then I stopped it 10 laps on my pasted board strop and 60 on the leather strop. I’ll shave tomorrow with it. It’s quick enough for 10 laps to do that after work during the week.

 

[Gamma]

If you are trying to learn how to hone, it can be useful to just hone on the 12 and test that edge.
That way you can see/feel exactly what the stone and the honing actually did. Maybe learn to improve the result with subsequent touchups, learning the stone's assets and liabilities along the way.
Following the touch up with a finer abrasive masks the honing effort.
A well honed edge finished on a 12k Nani should return a shaving edge. If it doesn't, an abrasive compound might enhance sharpness and get it to shave but that's the equivalent of polishing a turd. When learning to hone, the idea is to refine, not mask, or find a workaround.
Your 12k touchup might have done the trick on it's own. going to a finer paste after the edge is in good shape is fine, but knowing how the food tastes before adding MSG is very helpful.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

It’s not following a recipe. Look straight down on the edge and remove all doubt. It literally takes seconds.

You do as many laps as it takes to bring the bevels to meeting chip free, as it takes.

Yes, you can make a micro chipped edge shave with paste, but it will likely be a weak edge. Better to hone the edge to a fully meeting straight edge, then polish that edge with paste.

 

[cajunrph]

The edge was very comfortable today. It was better than before. Before the shave this morning, I did 10 laps on the pasted strop, 10 on the Cotten weave strop and my normal 60 on the leather one. I’ll see how far this touch up takes me. I may do a few laps tonight when I get back home. Maybe. Thanks for the advice. Those 10 laps seemed to improve the edge.

 

[cajunrph]

Your 12k touchup might have done the trick on it's own. going to a finer paste after the edge is in good shape is fine, but knowing how the food tastes before adding MSG is very helpful

After I did all the touch ups I did think I’d have no idea what step was the key. I’ll shave off the edge for a bit then touch it up just with the 12K stone and see where I’m at then.

 

[Jayboz]

Thanks @Honedright. I was able to find an inexpensive copy on ebay due to its condition. Hopefully those pages aren’t missing.

Ive abandoned trying anymore, but itll be interesting to read how it is described/the process. I think there were at least 7 editions, so more than a few copies sold.

Thank @alx gilmore. It should be coming as a Christmas gift.

 

[Herrenberg]

If you’re still interested, find a copy of “The Art and Science of Barbering” by L. Sherman Trusty. Everything is covered, including how to hone, types of hones, and how to care for hones… and much more: strops, stropping, shaving brushes, and other barber tools, etc… probably more information than you would want on barbering, hair cutting, etc. But the sections on honing, stropping and shaving contain everything you really need to get started. The only thing you need to add is practice, practice, practice.

This is available online. It's got some weird thing where you have to "reborrow" it every hour, but at least there's a way to read it.

the Art And Science of Barbering : Sherman Trusty ,M.A. : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

archive.org

 

[alex1921]

I love books, specially old books, but honestly if one wants to learn how to hone razors there is so much good info on the various forums that makes the old books pretty obsolete.

 

[Jayboz]

This is available online. It's got some weird thing where you have to "reborrow" it every hour, but at least there's a way to read it.

I saw that site but the reborrow thing seemed odd and didnt feel like signing up for another online account. Hard copy inbound so i can read at my leisure.

 

[Jayboz]

I love books, specially old books, but honestly if one wants to learn how to hone razors there is so much good info on the various forums that makes the old books pretty obsolete.

Yea, ive def learned stuff from the forums, but no matter what the subject, it tends to get contradictory and one ends up having to decide what seems the best option. Or try them all. Prob less with a book authored by one person.

I dont plan on trying anything in the book, just interested to see what it says. I think a few people mentioned it, but i believe in-person would hands down be the best way. Lot less trial and error and if something is drastically wrong, it can be corrected before bad habits set in. Similar to golf or fly-fishing.

 

[Honedright]

Thanks @Honedright. I was able to find an inexpensive copy on ebay due to its condition. Hopefully those pages aren’t missing.

Ive abandoned trying anymore, but itll be interesting to read how it is described/the process. I think there were at least 7 editions, so more than a few copies sold.

Thank @alx gilmore. It should be coming as a Christmas gift.

You are welcome! When I started using a straight razor there were no online forums, and barbers who still gave shaves with real straight razors, and used hones and strops, were mostly unwilling to teach. My only option was to use old barber books that I found in the library. All these years later I can now say that the information from those books is solid and just as applicable today as it was when the books were written. Much of the information seems simplistic, maybe outdated. There’s a tendency to expect something more, like some secret method. I found that there’s really no secret, the instructions are what they are. They are simple. But they require much practice to master. That’s the only secret, if there is one. It can be learned on your own, but it does help tremendously to have hands on instruction. That is the advantage that barber school students had. The book plus an in person instructor. Take it from me, it can be done…if you really want it. I’ve sliced my face, sliced too many strops and my fingers, chipped razor blades on the sink faucet, given up…started again. Suffered most of the acquisition disorders (and still suffer from them), and spent waaay too much money… It’s an obsession to be sure. Kind of crazy when it’s so easy to just grab a disposable razor and a can o’goo and just get it done. But I guess you have to be just a little crazy to persue this art. But it can be a lot of fun, and, maybe just as important, you are helping to keep alive an ancient tradition that, without us, would most likely disappear in a heartbeat.

 

[Honedright]

BTW, if you have any questions about anything shaving related that you read in the Trusty book, don’t hesitate to ask me. I’ll do my best to clarify.

 

[alex1921]

Yea, ive def learned stuff from the forums, but no matter what the subject, it tends to get contradictory and one ends up having to decide what seems the best option. Or try them all. Prob less with a book authored by one person.

I dont plan on trying anything in the book, just interested to see what it says. I think a few people mentioned it, but i believe in-person would hands down be the best way. Lot less trial and error and if something is drastically wrong, it can be corrected before bad habits set in. Similar to golf or fly-fishing.

Good points. I guess a better way to say it is. Find one or two people and just follow their advice instead of being pulled into 100 different directions.
With the hands on in person learning. Absolutely. Early on I was lucky hat the the forum had a list of mentors and one was located just few miles from me. It was very helpful.

 

[Jayboz]

BTW, if you have any questions about anything shaving related that you read in the Trusty book, don’t hesitate to ask me. I’ll do my best to clarify.

Excellent, thanks for offering.

 

[Kats1]

I'm just starting this SR honing journey and I'm slowly starting to see the light. One thing I'm realizing is that you cannot do this "paint by numbers". My best results so far are by trusting the feeling off the stone. I can tell my technique is getting better after every honing session as well. These guys are right (sadly) who are saying, "you gotta keep practicing". I don't know how many times we have to learn this lesson in life ha!

 

[Frank Shaves]

^
Correct. With practice you will learn fundamentals, learn how to solve common problems, build muscle memory and intuition, and figure out what works for you.

 

[Steve56]

One thing I'm realizing is that you cannot do this "paint by numbers".

Exactly, there’s a little ‘art’ to it, but not very different from riding a bike or playing a musical instrument, You can’t learn to play a piano only by advice. You have to practice.