8000 Grit: Kitayama, Naniwa, King
- Thread starter TstebinsB
- Start date
I own a Naniwa Superstone 8.000 grit, in the 10mm Version,
I also own a SS 10.000 and had a Suehiro 8.000 white magnesia,
so I can tell what I think about the SS 8k, I guess.
It is a very brightly colored stone, that kinda makes your eyes hurt when compared to the beauty of natural stones.
But hell is that a nice hone.
It feels like butter. When touched it actually "out-feels" every other hone I own,
including the Shapton 16k.
Unfortunately it is not as fine grained as 16k
When honed on it you can feel the butterness beneath your razor.
It gives nice draw/feedback and will polish the blade to extreme proportions in no time.
Sometimes I use it right after my belgian blue wich produces a hazy finish.
The finish disappears after 2-3 Strokes and turns into a no-scratch-surface.
Compared to the Suehiro Gold 8k, that is quite similar to the Naniwa Junpaku 8k, it has a nicer feel and will give similar edges. It is my opinion that this stone is a true 8.000 polisher that is nice to work on.
My favourite Stone when it comes to look and feel,
but not the finest one, for me. I prefer jumping on to SS 10k or Shapton 16k.
These won´t improve the Finish much, even under 40x magnification,
but will let the blade pass HHT.
I never got real HHT off the 8k, but a cutting motion HHT
I did not try Kitayama and Gold 8k, though
I also own a SS 10.000 and had a Suehiro 8.000 white magnesia,
so I can tell what I think about the SS 8k, I guess.
It is a very brightly colored stone, that kinda makes your eyes hurt when compared to the beauty of natural stones.
But hell is that a nice hone.
It feels like butter. When touched it actually "out-feels" every other hone I own,
including the Shapton 16k.
Unfortunately it is not as fine grained as 16k
When honed on it you can feel the butterness beneath your razor.
It gives nice draw/feedback and will polish the blade to extreme proportions in no time.
Sometimes I use it right after my belgian blue wich produces a hazy finish.
The finish disappears after 2-3 Strokes and turns into a no-scratch-surface.
Compared to the Suehiro Gold 8k, that is quite similar to the Naniwa Junpaku 8k, it has a nicer feel and will give similar edges. It is my opinion that this stone is a true 8.000 polisher that is nice to work on.
My favourite Stone when it comes to look and feel,
but not the finest one, for me. I prefer jumping on to SS 10k or Shapton 16k.
These won´t improve the Finish much, even under 40x magnification,
but will let the blade pass HHT.
I never got real HHT off the 8k, but a cutting motion HHT
I did not try Kitayama and Gold 8k, though
I have been told that 8000 is the highest truly measurable grit in the Japanese synthetic stone. This means that some manufacturers 8000 grit hone will perform above that grit rating. The Kityama is one of them.
Naniwa however now have 8000, 10.000 and 12000 grit hones.
I have compared a Naniwa Chosera 10,000 grit with a Naniwa Superstone 10,000 grit. They are totally different. Its like comparing a cow hide strop with a horse hide strop. The Chosera is silky smooth, efficient and effective. The Superstone is certainly a good hone don't get me wrong, but IMHO it isn't in the same class as the Chosera. The Superstone is heavy going by comparison and not as satisfying to use. It would be churlish to say the performance of the Superstone is in any way poor, it isn't but most of the 8K synthetics do a good job. The Chosera however does the job just so easily and so well, it is a very special hone.
I think you should consider adding the Chosera 8K to your list if you want to look at the real contenders.
Recently, I tried a hone in Germany that is labelled as 8k but hones way beyond its label. Its the nicest synthetic hone I have used on razors. It is this one:
http://www.dick.biz:80/dick/product/711020/detail.jsf
You should add it to your list. The staff at Dick rate it very highly and so do I. It is better than the Naniwa 10K for example. I love the feel of the hone. It puts a super sharp mirror finish. It feels more like the Naniwa than the Chosera. It has become my hone of choice before moving onto a natural finishing hone. It is great value for money and if you buy one, you will feel like the cat that got the cream
Naniwa however now have 8000, 10.000 and 12000 grit hones.
I have compared a Naniwa Chosera 10,000 grit with a Naniwa Superstone 10,000 grit. They are totally different. Its like comparing a cow hide strop with a horse hide strop. The Chosera is silky smooth, efficient and effective. The Superstone is certainly a good hone don't get me wrong, but IMHO it isn't in the same class as the Chosera. The Superstone is heavy going by comparison and not as satisfying to use. It would be churlish to say the performance of the Superstone is in any way poor, it isn't but most of the 8K synthetics do a good job. The Chosera however does the job just so easily and so well, it is a very special hone.
I think you should consider adding the Chosera 8K to your list if you want to look at the real contenders.
Recently, I tried a hone in Germany that is labelled as 8k but hones way beyond its label. Its the nicest synthetic hone I have used on razors. It is this one:
http://www.dick.biz:80/dick/product/711020/detail.jsf
You should add it to your list. The staff at Dick rate it very highly and so do I. It is better than the Naniwa 10K for example. I love the feel of the hone. It puts a super sharp mirror finish. It feels more like the Naniwa than the Chosera. It has become my hone of choice before moving onto a natural finishing hone. It is great value for money and if you buy one, you will feel like the cat that got the cream
Everyone always talks about grit and cutting speed as if they are the only criteria worth mentioning. They're important, of course, but I think the feel or feedback of the stone is the most important consideration. This isn't nearly as important for sharpening razors as it is for knives, but it's a factor nonetheless. Some stones are very hard (eg: Ebi 8K white, Shaptons) while others are very soft and easily gouged (Naniwa 10K SS).
I enjoy using the Kitayama for knives- it smooth as butter and a very easy and enjoyable stone to use, although I don't think it's fine enough for razors. There is some confusion as to its grit. It's made from crushed natural stone that ranges from 8-12K grit, so it should properly be called an 8K since that's the coarsest particle size that will touch the blade. It's big, hefty, and has a solid wood base. Korin recently lowered their prices on this and the King-
http://korin.com/Shop/Fine-Shiage
The Naniwa 10K SS is famous for leaving a great finish. It's soft and wears quickly, but it will still last a very long time for home use. Their cho-ceras are top of the line, but very pricey stones. I've had three Kings (1K, 1K Hyper, and 6K) and they all seem they same except for grit. They're fairly soft and slow cutting, and perfect stones for beginners. You wouldn't want to start with a stone that will alter your bevel with a few incorrect swipes. Since you've been around the block quite a bit, I'd put them near the bottom of your list. Have you considered the Shapton GlassStones?
I enjoy using the Kitayama for knives- it smooth as butter and a very easy and enjoyable stone to use, although I don't think it's fine enough for razors. There is some confusion as to its grit. It's made from crushed natural stone that ranges from 8-12K grit, so it should properly be called an 8K since that's the coarsest particle size that will touch the blade. It's big, hefty, and has a solid wood base. Korin recently lowered their prices on this and the King-
http://korin.com/Shop/Fine-Shiage
The Naniwa 10K SS is famous for leaving a great finish. It's soft and wears quickly, but it will still last a very long time for home use. Their cho-ceras are top of the line, but very pricey stones. I've had three Kings (1K, 1K Hyper, and 6K) and they all seem they same except for grit. They're fairly soft and slow cutting, and perfect stones for beginners. You wouldn't want to start with a stone that will alter your bevel with a few incorrect swipes. Since you've been around the block quite a bit, I'd put them near the bottom of your list. Have you considered the Shapton GlassStones?
King hones? Meh. They do an adequate job. Naniwas are another story. I love 'em. Yes, they are soft and slow. But they leave a wonderful edge with a bright, mirror finish.
My favorite 8K hone thus far is the Takenoko sold by Japan Woodworker. It is harder than the Naniwas, cuts pretty quickly and also leaves a great polish. One word of warning...don't drop it when wet. It doesn't like that.
My favorite 8K hone thus far is the Takenoko sold by Japan Woodworker. It is harder than the Naniwas, cuts pretty quickly and also leaves a great polish. One word of warning...don't drop it when wet. It doesn't like that.
- Thread starter
- #7
The Chocera is out of my price range for an 8K stone.
I'd give the Akatsuki some consideration but it's hard to procure.Recently, I tried a hone in Germany that is labelled as 8k but hones way beyond its label. Its the nicest synthetic hone I have used on razors. It is this one:
http://www.dick.biz:80/dick/product/711020/detail.jsf
You should add it to your list. The staff at Dick rate it very highly and so do I. It is better than the Naniwa 10K for example. I love the feel of the hone. It puts a super sharp mirror finish. It feels more like the Naniwa than the Chosera. It has become my hone of choice before moving onto a natural finishing hone. It is great value for money and if you buy one, you will feel like the cat that got the cream
I'm a little confused. You don't think the Kitayama is good for razors even though it's rated at #8000+?
I can get the three brands mentioned above from sources in Japan for cheaper than I can get them here. I'm also getting a #1000 grit stone and a #4000 grit stone so I'd like to save on the total cost.
I spoke to a shop owner in Japan who deals with swords and knives. He recommended the King Gold G-1 stone.
If you go that route, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it. I have the 1K/6K combo hone (as seen in the Reviews section). It really doesn't do anything at all for me. I'd sell it, but don't want to inflict its' mediocrity on another member.
- Thread starter
- #9
What's wrong with it? I might be interested. I could add the Naniwa SS 10K and make them a trio.
I love that stone (I can use it all day), but I'm not sure 8K is enough for a razor without further help. It seems that no matter how well I set the bevel and sharpen and polish, it's never enough. I usually go to a 12K after the Kitayama, and they still need work on a pasted strop.
Not a whole lot of feedback, wears quicker than it cuts (I've had to lap it in the middle of honing a razor), smells funny. On top of all that, a Blue Mountain Aoto effectively replaced it.
- Thread starter
- #13
OK. That's a no-go.
Sorry but I'd have to pass. It sounds like a great stone but I can't justify the costs.I will sell my Naniwa Chosera 10K if you can give me a reasonable price.
Say $200 including postage by air. Its a great hone and its seen little use.
Hear is a picture of it sitting next to a Naniwa 800/5000 combo.
Send me a PM if you are interested.
- Thread starter
- #14
Not really.
The photo I put above shows the Naniwa 800/5000 superstone combi.
This is equivalent to any other makers 1000/6000 hone.
I use the 800 grit to set the V and it works perfectly. I'm sure the 1000 grit will also do the job, but to be honest, I would buy an 800 grit in the Naniwa superstone range having used the 800 above.
800, 5000, 10000/12000 that would be my recommended progression in the superstone range. They are very quick hones to use compared to natural hones You would also need a synthetic nagura stone to clean the hones after use and some 1000 grit wet and dry to give the hones an occasional lapping.
The photo I put above shows the Naniwa 800/5000 superstone combi.
This is equivalent to any other makers 1000/6000 hone.
I use the 800 grit to set the V and it works perfectly. I'm sure the 1000 grit will also do the job, but to be honest, I would buy an 800 grit in the Naniwa superstone range having used the 800 above.
800, 5000, 10000/12000 that would be my recommended progression in the superstone range. They are very quick hones to use compared to natural hones You would also need a synthetic nagura stone to clean the hones after use and some 1000 grit wet and dry to give the hones an occasional lapping.
- Thread starter
- #16
Hones are like shaving soap, we all like different brands.
The 800/5000 combination hone is great for the occasional user. A professional would ware the hone out quite quickly and would be better buying the separate stand alone hones. If he wants to save time, the Chocera hones are more efficient and faster to use. (to the professional, time equals money)
Again at the 8k level, the Naniwa 8K will do a great job for sure. The 12K will do an even better job but it cost more. So it depends how much you want to spend.
Just so you know all the options, Naniwa also do a 3000/8000 combination hone.
So for a very reasonable price, you could go Naniwa 800,3000,5000,8000 followed by A Japanese finishing hone. The edge will be as good as you can get.
You can see all the hones here:
http://www.fine-tools.com/naniwa-stones.html
But you need to decide what you want the hones for. If its for occasional use, the two combination hones will be in my opinion just perfect. You will need a synthetic Nagura as well. Its not for creating a slurry, it cleans the hones when they get dirty. If you want a slurry, a natural nagura is a great choice and makes the hones more flexible.
If you intend to use the hones heavily, you would be better buying the individual hones rather than the combination hones.
I hope this is helping and not confusing you.
Only you know what you want the hones for.
The 800/5000 combination hone is great for the occasional user. A professional would ware the hone out quite quickly and would be better buying the separate stand alone hones. If he wants to save time, the Chocera hones are more efficient and faster to use. (to the professional, time equals money)
Again at the 8k level, the Naniwa 8K will do a great job for sure. The 12K will do an even better job but it cost more. So it depends how much you want to spend.
Just so you know all the options, Naniwa also do a 3000/8000 combination hone.
So for a very reasonable price, you could go Naniwa 800,3000,5000,8000 followed by A Japanese finishing hone. The edge will be as good as you can get.
You can see all the hones here:
http://www.fine-tools.com/naniwa-stones.html
But you need to decide what you want the hones for. If its for occasional use, the two combination hones will be in my opinion just perfect. You will need a synthetic Nagura as well. Its not for creating a slurry, it cleans the hones when they get dirty. If you want a slurry, a natural nagura is a great choice and makes the hones more flexible.
If you intend to use the hones heavily, you would be better buying the individual hones rather than the combination hones.
I hope this is helping and not confusing you.
Only you know what you want the hones for.
- Thread starter
- #19
I've never been a fan. They're too mercurial.
Thanks for the help. Martin told me that if I wanted a complete set, the 800/5000 and the 3000/8000 were the way to go. I'm thinking the 1000, 5000, 8000, and 12000 single-grit stones. I'm no professional but I do have a very large razor collection. If my Japanese hones make the 12000 redundant, then I'll take it out.
- Thread starter
- #20
