2 Tablespoons per 4oz, or 6oz?

[jrowen]

Hi, guys.

I mentioned in another thread that I just got some french presses. So far, they make fantastic coffee. One is a Bodum Chambord, and the other is the Brazil. The directions that come with the Bodum FPs say to use one scoop (2 tablespoons) of grounds for every 4 oz of water. However, almost all of the usually coffee brewing methods I have seen call for 2 Tablespoons for every 6 oz of water.

I've been following the Bodum directions so far, 1 coffee scooper for every 4 oz, and its been pretty good. I tried it with 1/6oz, and it seemed a little weak. I even got my nerd on and marked measurement lines on the carafe with a sharpie, so I wouldn't have to waste time measuring out water since I don't usually make a full carafe.

So.... which do you use in your FP?

 

[brady]

I haven't used the french press in a while but I lean toward the 2/4 for myself and closer to 1/6 for company.

In the Chemex I shoot for ~40g/15oz.

 

[Jasonian]

It depends on the coffee.

The base line is 7g. per 6oz. (both by weight)

If the coffee requires it, I'll bump it up. I almost never use less.

 

[jrowen]

The base line is 7g. per 6oz. (both by weight)

So.... does this mean that most coffee averages 7g/2tbsp using a course grind setting (which is what the Bodum directions also call for, though I've seen sticky posts here calling for drip grind), and that's where the rule for a 2 tbsp coffee scoop comes from? EDIT: or... should I actually be measuring for the 7g?

 

[danek]

It depends on the coffee.

I completely agree. I prefer a little less for some coffees and a little more for others.

However, my rule of thumb is 2 heaping tbs per 6 oz of water. I measured it out one time, then have just eye-balled it ever since. I make enough for 3 cups at a time, so I have a pretty good idea want constitutes 6-8ish tbs of grounds in the grind bin, and 18-20ish oz of water in the FP.

 

[Jasonian]

I have a scale right next to the grinder. If the hopper is full, I'll dose it into a cappuccino cup the same as I would the portafilter for espresso.

I just stop to weigh it when I think I'm getting close.

If the hopper isn't full, then I'll pre-weigh the dose. Grind it. Clear the doser, throat, chute, etc, all into the cup. Weigh again.

Then I'll drop it into the FP, the pre-wetted chemex filter, the pre-wetted melitta filter, or whatever.

Then tare the brewer + coffee. I pour the water until the desired weight is reached. I start the timer at initial contact between water and coffee.

 

[jrowen]

So.... does this mean that most coffee averages 7g/2tbsp using a course grind setting (which is what the Bodum directions also call for, though I've seen sticky posts here calling for drip grind), and that's where the rule for a 2 tbsp coffee scoop comes from? EDIT: or... should I actually be measuring for the 7g?

So... I think I convinced myself that I can do away with the measuring by weight. Here goes the argument:

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Water weight vs. volume:
-----------------------------
1 gal water = 8.34 lbs
1 gal water = 128 fl. oz. (volume)
1 lbs = 16 avoirdupois (av.) oz. (weight)

128 fl. oz./gal * 1 gal/8.34 lbs * 1 lb/16 av. oz. = 0.96 fl.oz / av. oz of water.

In summary, 1 fluid ounce of water is 1.0425 ounces by weight. This is a 4.25% error, leaning towards too much water if measured by volume, meaning over-extraction and bitterness. So, for a 6 fl. oz measurement (by volume), you'd actually have ~.24 av. oz. too much water (by weight). In my opinion, this is within the statistical mean of my measurement accuracy early in the morning. But I can see where for large brew sizes, the error increases more and should be paid more attention if you brew by water weight.

Also, I can find no external references to measuring the water by weight. All references were in fl. oz.

-----------------------------
Bean weight vs. volume:
-----------------------------
So, I verified that the "coffee scoop" that came with the Bodum press is exactly 2 Tablespoons in volume. I also filled the scooper up with a variety of my coffees, all with different grind settings. I then empty them out a level scooper onto my kitchen scale (tared and everything) and measured the weight to be.... you guess it, 7 grams! Which is, ironically, exactly the weight molded into the plastic scooper (it tells you you're going to measure 7 grams). The resolution of my scale was 1 gram, so I don't know how "close" to 7 grams the measurements actually were. But, close enough for me given that I may be fudging the water measurement by a small amount also. One level scoop, 2 tablespoons, approximately 7 grams, every time.

-----------------------------
Coffee to Water Ratio
-----------------------------
I found an external reference here:

http://www.blackbearcoffee.com/Brewing%20Ratio%20Charts.htm

In the Connoisseur's Brewing Ratio table, they recommend 10.6 grams (2 tablesspoons?) per 6 fl. oz. of water. I only have a public school education, but I'm pretty sure if we do the math there:

10.6g/6fl.oz. = Xg/4fl.oz.
Xg = 10.6g*4fl.oz/6fl.oz. = 7.066g

Holy crap, they recommend 7grams/4fl.oz. too, just like the bodum press!

If they mean "heaping" tablespoons when they say 2 tablespoons is 10.6 grams in the table and it comes out to the same ratio, then I suggest that if you don't weigh your beans, that you use a level tablespoon measurement for every 4 fl. oz. of water instead of a heaping tablespoon measurement for every 6 fl. oz. of water since a level tablespoon is an actual, repeatable, measureable quantity and a "heaping" tablespoon is not.

Consequently, to check this theory, I measured out some "heaping" tablespoons, and I'll be damned if the scale didn't say 10 grams! This was the only way I could make their table make sense as I'm fairly certain from the previous section that 2 level tablespoons is in fact somewhere abouts 7 grams, not 10.6 grams.

If we check out the Standard Brewing Ratio table and do the same calculations:

10.6g/8fl.oz. = Xg/6fl.oz.
Xg = 10.6g*6fl.oz/8fl.oz = 7.95g ~= 8g

or...

10.6g/8fl.oz. = 7g/xfl.oz.
Xfl.oz. = 7g*8fl.oz/10.6fl.oz = 5.283 fl.oz.

So, they recommend 8g/6fl.oz, or 7g/5.283fl.oz..... not the same, but pretty close to 7g/6fl.oz. Actually, it's a little bit stronger brew than the standard 7g/6fl.oz., and they would say 7g/6fl.oz. is over-extracted comparatively.

-----------------------------
Conclusion
-----------------------------

So, which ratio do you prefer? I guess the real question is, are you a Connoisseur?

- Jason

 

[Jasonian]

I think the question is how many times have you done this, how many times have you experimented with the variables, and what conclusions have you come to on your own?

Citing other people's opinions doesn't really do much for anyone, unless they are really into opinion-collecting. (some would call it fact collecting, but the facts involved are really opinions)

How dense is the coffee being used? How dark was it roasted? How fresh is it?

And that's just the beginning. For dark roasted stale coffee, I'd lean towards 7g/4oz. too.

Measuring water by weight isn't really taught. There is more misinformation than legitimate information on the internet. Why should the topic of coffee be any different?

How to know for sure? Taste it for yourself. Change variables. Taste again. Etc..

I'm not trying to be argumentative, but trying to argue a third party's opinion as being anything more than that is just silly. They're not the ones who will be drinking your coffee. You are.

You asked for guidelines. They were given.

And to answer your question about whether the 2tbsp. per cup came from the notion of using 7g per cup: yes.

However, it is dependent on the coffee's density, which is dependent on so many other factors.

On the topic, what temperature should your water be? How much agitation should you use?

Where did the question of whether or not anyone else is a connoisseur come from, and why?

 

[jrowen]

Whoa..... sorry if I got you riled up, or somehow offended you. That definitely wasn't the intent. The original question I posed was "2 Tbsp per 6 oz. or 4 oz, which do you use?", which is totally an opinion. I did ask for opinions, and they were given (thank you!), which is exactly the kind of conversation I was looking for... what is working for most people. I'm new to the FP method and was curious because I had always heard the 2 Tbsp / 6 oz. rule, but the directions stated 1 "scoop" (2 Tbsp) per 4oz, which is contradictory.

I find your information to be really informative (thank you, BTW) and never even considered weight, or even that so many factors could influence your ratio, so I set off to see if the way I was breweing it (using volume instead of weight, since I dont' have a scale at work), would pose a serious threat to my enjoyment of the beverage at its fullest potential. I gave my opinion, and justification (which I intended to be discussed, please correct me if wander astray) that I thought I was reasonably safe in using a volume measure at work to approximate a good brew when good tools are not available.

I also did a quick cursory internet search to see if I could find any opinions regarding the subject of coffee-to-water ratios, especially since I had never considered weight. I listed a link to a site that included 2 ratio tables, one for "Connoisseur's" and one for "everybody else". I had some initial impressions:
1. Surprised that the Connoisseur's table that they listed matched the FP directions
2. Surprised that the "everybody else" table they list approximated the 7g/6oz rule.
3. why should there be a different table for Connoisseurs and everyone else... and how can they tell that the Connoisseurs actually prefer this ratio? Who decides who is and who isn't a Connoisseur?

The first two show that the ratios discussed so far, 7g/6oz and 7g/4oz, are opinions shared in other locations (yay!). So, the comment regarding Connoisseurs was made tounge-in-check because apparently everyone who likes their brew 7g/4oz according to EDIT: the linked website is a "Connoisseur". I thought I made that apparant with the "rolling eyes" smiley EDIT: and the italicized "Connoisseur", but I guess not.

Anyway, I'm sorry if you were offended. As I stated, that really wasn't my intent. I have really enjoyed and appreciated the discussion upto this point.

- Jason

 

[Jasonian]

I love how any tone can only be assumed. I'm sure I misunderstood the tone of your post. I apologize for that.

A lot of studies have been done on consumer preferences. A whole lot. However, most of those were done decades ago, and I'm not sure how many of them still stand.

C-grade coffee (on the shelf at your grocery store) suggests 1tbsp per 6fl. oz.

16oz. of water weighs 16oz at room temperature at sea level, by the way.

I know from experience that the volume does increase when the water is just off the boil. (at least, that's true for the water I use)

Anyway, yeah. It depends on the coffee.

 

[jrowen]

No worries. Sorry for any misunderstandings. I see a lot of benefit to weighing both the coffee and the water, and had never even considered that before, but it makes perfect sense. After considering weight from your earler post, it seems to me that in trying to be as repeatable as possible, that the mass (determined by weight) of the ingredients would be a truer indication of the quantity of raw material being used. I believe that you are also correct in asserting that no one "teaches" using weight/mass instead of volume. As I stated, I could find no external references to that method for water (though the link I used included weight measures for the coffee). I can only guess why, but maybe that's because the mass producer's can't know the altitude at which you will be making your brew, and sice 16 fl. oz. = 16 av. oz at sea level, they just write their instructions on the packaging in fl. oz. so as to remain as generic as possible for all of their consumers. Plus, maybe not everyone has a good scale, but most people have measuring cups.

C-grade coffee (on the shelf at your grocery store) suggests 1tbsp per 6fl. oz.

I had noticed that ratio as well, but didn't include it in the conversation yet, mostly because I was still confused about the ratio given in the instruction for the FP and didnt' want to muddy the water (pun intended? ), but was also curious about the 1 tbsp/6fl.oz. ratio that I've seen on many mass-produced coffees. This is why I find this topic so interesting. I've heard a million different "golden" ratios, from different people and vendors (on the packaging usually) and apparently your comment is on point - it depends on the coffee and the taste of the person drinking it.

With regards to my own situation at work, I'm pretty sure I could steep my dirty socks in hot water and come out with a better beverage than what they pass around for coffee here. Hence, the french press, since hot water at the correct temperature is readily available.

I had heard of 2 tbsp (apparantly 7 grams, more appropriately)/ 5-6oz. (never stating by weight or volume), but never as low as 4 oz. of water, so that's what piqued my curiousity regarding the FP directions. I kinda made the OP hoping someone with more knowledge than myself (that's pretty much everone) would post "the" ratio that all coffee enthusiasts use as the rule of "how to make the perfect coffe". Somthing like "oh, 7g/4oz. is rubbish, bodum doesn't know what they're talking about, 7g/6oz., now that's the cat's meow", but I guess there isn't any such thing and all the "directions/instructions" given by vendors such as Bodum really only represent what they believe to be the best ratio according to their own tastes. I appreciate the enlightenment on that fact and the clarity it will bring to my experience.

Thanks,

-Jason

 

[Jasonian]

7g/5-6oz. is the general range, on average. Coming from me, anyway.

If the coffee is stale, or if the green coffee is a bit on the old side before roasting, I'd bump the dose to compensate.

 

[jrowen]

Does anyone use a different drinking ratio than their brew ratio? That is, does anyone cut their brewed coffee with water to weaken it? If so, what ratio do you use for that?

 

[Torcams]

I haven't used the french press in a while but I lean toward the 2/4 for myself and closer to 1/6 for company.

In the Chemex I shoot for ~40g/15oz.

Really? Why so much? I just got a Chemex and brewed a pot in my drip machine and in the Chemex using the same ratios (2T/5 oz.) and the Chemex was notably richer. Do you stir the grounds during extraction?

 

[Mer]

Just did some weighing for the first time in my coffee drinking "career".

For my 18oz commuter mug I'd need 21g of coffee. (approx. from the reading above)

Luckily this works out to exactly one level 1/4 cup scoop of unground beans for me.

I had been using about 30+ % too much. Probably doesn't make too much of a difference but my trial cup is definitely a little smoother to me.

Thanks everyone for the info above!

Eric

 

[brady]

Really? Why so much? I just got a Chemex and brewed a pot in my drip machine and in the Chemex using the same ratios (2T/5 oz.) and the Chemex was notably richer. Do you stir the grounds during extraction?

Probably because there was a coffee shop near me that used that ratio when they brewed in a Chemex and I liked the results. I should do some experimenting to see how much less I can get away with and still get the taste I am after.

I don't stir. Just the initial bloom for 20-30 seconds and then pour the rest in.