Suprisingly good Coffee at Starbucks?

[David in Boston]

Now you need to find a Starbucks location with a Clover machine. IMO, that is as good as Starbucks can get.

When I have a cigar I order my coffee via the Clover machine.

The top three choices are Italian, French and Gold Coast.

Also have the good folks at Starbucks make you a Clover coffee half Espresso and one half of the mentioned blends.

It is oh so good.

 

[liolo]

Based on my experience of Starbuck's in Montreal, they are to coffee what McDonald is to hamburger. You get the caffeine, but that's about it. I never tried anything else than their regular coffee though. If i'm up for a 5$ coffee, I won't even consider Starbuck's as an option. For the exact same reason I would not consider McDonald an option when I'm up for a tartar steak

 

[Fortitudo Dei]

I enjoy a good coffee though don't consider myself a coffee snob. However I have to say that the espresso at Starbucks rates as some the worst I've ever had.

Starbucks has been a financial train-wreck both here (NZ) and Australia. It is a good example of where a large corporation didn't understand the already existing coffee culture with their business model failing to translate across markets. Starbucks' original success in the United States was in part because it introduced a modified (i.e. for the want of a better word, "Americanized") version of European coffee culture into a market that didn't have this tradition. However New Zealand and Australia already had a fantastically strong existing coffee culture which Starbucks couldn’t compete against. There are still several branches of Starbucks in my city (though several have closed) but a quick glance through the window will reveal that they are generally frequented by either (a) tourists or (b) teenagers buying some cholesterol-laden concoction involving coffee, sugar, ice-cream, fresh cream & chocolate sprinkles...

 

[fsatsil]

I am pretty picky about my coffee and to me, the coffee and espresso at Starbucks is pretty undrinkable. I will admit that a few times a year I get a craving for one of those caramel frappaccino things, but I'm not really sure there is any coffee in those they are more like a milk shake.

 

[mkornecki]

... with their business model failing to translate across markets. Starbucks' original success in the United States was in part because it introduced a modified (i.e. for the want of a better word, "Americanized") version of European coffee culture into a market that didn't have this tradition. ...

The US has always had a strong coffee culture as well. Let's not pretend that coffee was recently introduced to the US.

I'd like to see some historical regarding the chronology of the advent of the coffee culture in Australia and NZ versus the US.

Moving away from the ambiguous term "coffee culture" towards a more quantifiable criteria, the first coffeehouse in the US opened up a scant 20 years after the first one in Europe, in the late 1600s. I'm not sure when they opend up in Australia or NZ ...

 

[StillShaving]

My sense is there was a lag or drop off in coffee "culture" at least 30-40 years ago in the U.S. and probably much earlier than that. I over generalizing, but at that time a good percentage of the eldest generation liked to drink perked coffee. The implication being that the coffee percolator would have killed coffee in the sense that it became more of a utilitarian drink, where it became more uniform in taste, but that was what people expected. Automatic drip machines like Mr. Coffee replaced the percolator in most homes, but at that time there were very few coffee houses across the country. Press pots, vacuum pots, espresso machines were rare in most people's homes. The main question asked when you wanted coffee back then was did you want 1 lump of sugar or 2? And how much cream?

 

[mattface]

My sense is there was a lag or drop off in coffee "culture" at least 30-40 years ago in the U.S. and probably much earlier than that. I over generalizing, but at that time a good percentage of the eldest generation liked to drink perked coffee. The implication being that the coffee percolator would have killed coffee in the sense that it became more of a utilitarian drink, where it became more uniform in taste, but that was what people expected. Automatic drip machines like Mr. Coffee replaced the percolator in most homes, but at that time there were very few coffee houses across the country. Press pots, vacuum pots, espresso machines were rare in most people's homes. The main question asked when you wanted coffee back then was did you want 1 lump of sugar or 2? And how much cream?

The pump driven espresso machine that we think of as providing fine quality espresso based beverages was not even invented until 1948. Prior to that espresso was made with steam driven makers it was a fast utilitarian drink, but not at all what coffee connoisseurs these days think of as espresso.

As for Starbucks. they are the Duncan donuts of the cafe culture, except that duncan donuts makes better coffee than they do. I'm particularly annoyed at their insistence of giving faux names to things that already have perfectly good english names. It's pretentious, and does nothing to reinforce their Seattle roots. I've had coffee in Seattle, and tyeare not particularly Seattle, and they are definitely not Italian. Don't even get me started on what they call a macchiatto. A macchiatto is not a big sweet frothy milky drink. It's espresso with a touch of milk. Market dominance does not give them the right to reinvent the coffee vernacular.

There is plenty of good coffee in the US, but there are also plenty of big chains that do what big chains do, and dumb down their product into mass produced mediocrity. If you tend to shop at chains your expectations will generally be low, and a lot of americans tend to shop at chains.

 

[mkornecki]

Starbucks popularity in the US is driven primarily by convenience and the ability to get in and out quickly.

 

[franz]

A macchiato is not a big sweet frothy milky drink. It's espresso with a touch of milk.

Good man.

 

[mkornecki]

My sense is there was a lag or drop off in coffee "culture" at least 30-40 years ago in the U.S. and probably much earlier than that. ...

I guess I don't know how you are defining coffee culture.

Is it people sitting at a diner and enjoying a few cups with friends? Folks putting a kettle over a campfire? A couple having another couple over and brewing a pot to go with desert?

Or is the term soley reserved for those posh refined individuals who sneer at the poor uneducated masses?

I find the latter demographic the most amusing, especially since it has been proven time after time that unless they are paid professionals, the "refined" and "cultured" cannot tell the difference in their prodcut of choice when a double blind study is conducted.

 

[JPDyson]

One could argue that the idea that the culture is "better" simply means that people care about the excellence of coffee in a way they didn't before. The culture is representative of what makes it up, so in a sense that includes casual drinkers and aficionados - but perhaps the point is that there's more interest and innovation in the area of coffee than there used to be.

I'd doubt that people who casually consume coffee to wake up in the morning without giving much thought to quality would count themselves among a coffee culture of any kind. Just like folks who use cartridges and canned goo wouldn't lay claim to any shaving culture. So, perhaps the "culture" is a reference to those who are concerned with coffee, and not just everybody who drinks it.

I bet there were some great conversations had over terrible, percolator coffee in the 70's - and I'm not for a second trying to discredit that - but that's probably not what one would call "coffee culture".

I don't know if I said what I meant to say, but I think I said something.

 

[BTJR99]

Wow I really like Starbucks, but I don't know any better cause I have not found any other options. I always get their Bold and I drink it black with one splenda. For home I tend to get Komodo and use a drip coffee maker. If anyone has any suggestions for somewhere to get a good cup of coffee near belleville NJ, I love to know.

 

[babafats]

You make a lot of sense, Josh. Coffee as a commodity, as a widely used and legally sanctioned stimulant, is part of a wider culture for sure. Sometimes, you just want a cup of coffee for that kick-start in the morning (or afternoon, or after dinner...). On the other hand, you can try to make the best tasting cup of coffee, using fresh-ground beans, in a pour-over, etc., if you're really into it. You can try differently sourced beans and different brewing methods. Much like with beer: beer consumption is a huge part of American culture (not to mention other), but the craft brewing movement is specifically a 'beer culture.' It's a group of like-minded individuals trying to make the best version of something they love.

In my experience, the people working on "artisan" products, like coffee, craft beer, etc., aren't trying to be snobbish. They really just put a lot of care into what their doing out of a love for it, and usually want to share that passion with others as widely as possible.

It's got nothing to do with "posh" vs. "uneducated". Neither is objectively better than the other. Some people prefer one, some prefer the other. There's no right or wrong here. Likening it to our mutually agreed upon love of good shaving: there's nothing wrong with using modern equipment, we just like doing it differently.

 

[letsdisinfect]

Don't even get me started on what they call a macchiatto. A macchiatto is not a big sweet frothy milky drink. It's espresso with a touch of milk. Market dominance does not give them the right to reinvent the coffee vernacular.

While I agree the Caramel Macchiatto is not the classic macciatto, at Starbucks you CAN order an Espresso Macchiatto...

...However, most baristas aren't trained well enough to know what you actually mean - It may take talking to a manager to actually get what you ask for. BUT you can actually get one!

Personally, I don't mind going into the Starbucks I used to work at on my way to my teaching job and order an Americano from the only former coworker of mine who cares about making good coffee.

 

[mattface]

I guess I don't know how you are defining coffee culture.

Is it people sitting at a diner and enjoying a few cups with friends? Folks putting a kettle over a campfire? A couple having another couple over and brewing a pot to go with desert?

Or is the term soley reserved for those posh refined individuals who sneer at the poor uneducated masses?

I find the latter demographic the most amusing, especially since it has been proven time after time that unless they are paid professionals, the "refined" and "cultured" cannot tell the difference in their prodcut of choice when a double blind study is conducted.

So are you saying coffee snobs are no more likely to be able to tell the difference between Starbucks and their favorite locally roasted fresh roasted coffee in a double blind test than razor snobs are to be able to tell the difference between Dorko ST-300s and their own favorite blades? Or, I don't know, say Williams and their favorite soap?

 

[StillShaving]

My reference to the growth in coffee culture as compared to 30-40 years ago was about the increasing number of people who discovered they really enjoy coffee and try to find a better cup and thus enjoy trying new origins, roasts, and ways of preparation. In that regard I do think Starbucks did a lot to raise awareness and gave many people their first experience of coffee outside the fairly generic coffee and peculator or auto drip machines used in most homes. IMO they expanded the overall market and created space for some independent shops which in turn elevated the experience another notch. As much as a certifiable coffee snob might disdain Starbucks, I think some homage is deserved.

 

[JPDyson]

Yeah, it's hard to deny them at least a tip of the hat for essentially dominating a market.

 

[BladeDE40]

Based on my experience of Starbuck's in Montreal, they are to coffee what McDonald is to hamburger. You get the caffeine, but that's about it. I never tried anything else than their regular coffee though. If i'm up for a 5$ coffee, I won't even consider Starbuck's as an option. For the exact same reason I would not consider McDonald an option when I'm up for a tartar steak

Interestingly...I find McDONALD'S regular coffee to be far better than Starbucks.

 

[Jasonian]

Interestingly...I find McDONALD'S regular coffee to be far better than Starbucks.

These days, they're roughly in the same league if you want to talk green coffee quality. McDonald's outsources their coffee regionally these days.

 

[Jasonian]

...It's a group of like-minded individuals trying to make the best version of something they love.

In my experience, the people working on "artisan" products, like coffee, craft beer, etc., aren't trying to be snobbish. They really just put a lot of care into what their doing out of a love for it, and usually want to share that passion with others as widely as possible.

It's got nothing to do with "posh" vs. "uneducated".
...

Thank you!