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Suprisingly good Coffee at Starbucks?

So are you saying coffee snobs are no more likely to be able to tell the difference between Starbucks and their favorite locally roasted fresh roasted coffee...

I think that most people who loudly proclaim "I hate starbucks", do so because it is the oh-so trendy thing to say. I've had good cups of coffee at starbucks and I've had terrible cups at fine establishments.

In my opinion, those who say that Starbucks is terrible, have no idea what a truly terrible cup of coffee is... We're talking about a physics dept. machine that hasn't been cleaned in 40 years with the pot left warming for over 14 hours.


in a double blind test than razor snobs are to be able to tell the difference between Dorko ST-300s and their own favorite blades? Or, I don't know, say Williams and their favorite soap?

Regarding the Williams, I think the test would have to be truly "blind", as, in my limited experience, Williams certainly looks a bit different when lathered compared to PdP.

As for the Dorcos, I haven't got to them yet in my sampler, but if popular opinion has merit, they would be more along the lines of the physics brew I mentioned above.
 
Well, Starbucks is actually bad specialty coffee, but I agree - it's a step up from scraping the bottom of a can of Chock full o Nuts and brewing it through a communal Mr Coffee that's never been cleaned. So it's all relative.

But what I find interesting is that the unwashed masses who drink Folgers and brew it weak offer the exact same complaint about Starbucks as do the coffee snobs: "It tastes burnt."
 
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The US has always had a strong coffee culture as well. Let's not pretend that coffee was recently introduced to the US.

I'd like to see some historical regarding the chronology of the advent of the coffee culture in Australia and NZ versus the US.

Moving away from the ambiguous term "coffee culture" towards a more quantifiable criteria, the first coffeehouse in the US opened up a scant 20 years after the first one in Europe, in the late 1600s. I'm not sure when they opend up in Australia or NZ ...



Whoa now, there's a big jump from "people drink a lot of coffee" to "coffee culture". The US didn't have any significant tradition of sitting in coffee houses for hours at a time until the late 60s - even that was localized in the big cities, whereas Europeans have been doing this for centuries.

Americans had diners and bars, Europeans had coffee houses.
 
Whoa now, there's a big jump from "people drink a lot of coffee" to "coffee culture". The US didn't have any significant tradition of sitting in coffee houses for hours at a time until the late 60s - even that was localized in the big cities, whereas Europeans have been doing this for centuries.
Please provide some evidence for these claims, or at the least, for the latter.

Americans had diners and bars, Europeans had coffee houses.

Ahh those refined Europeans, so much more couth than those unwashed Americans!

I smell a myth.
 
Please provide some evidence for these claims, or at the least, for the latter.



Ahh those refined Europeans, so much more couth than those unwashed Americans!

I smell a myth.

One of the points here is not so much about refinement or lack thereof but about where and how people spend their leisure/social time. America is not like the TV show "Friends" where everybody gets together at the coffeeshop to socialize. In Italy, chatting at the cafe/bar over an espresso in the afternoon or an aperitivo in the early evening is part of the culture.

I also think that coffee has historically been more of a utilitarian drink in the US. The quintessential American coffee drinking (in my mind) happens in breakrooms and greasy spoon diners.
 
Please provide some evidence for these claims, or at the least, for the latter.



Ahh those refined Europeans, so much more couth than those unwashed Americans!

I smell a myth.

The tradition of the coffeehouse begins in the Middle East, particularly Ottoman Anatolia. The first recorded coffeehouse was founded in Istanbul in 1555, but they must have existed earlier, as imams banned coffeehouses in Mecca earlier in the 16th century. In these cultures, the coffeehouse was a rough equivalent of the English pub. As alcohol is forbidden in Islamic culture, coffeehouses (often doubling as hookah bars) became social gathering spots, and in some places were seen as hotbeds of political radicalism (hence intermittent bans).

In the 16th century, with increasing trade between European countries and the Ottoman Empire, the first coffeehouses began to appear in Europe. The first recorded European coffeehouse was established in Vienna in 1652, within decades they had spread rapidly. Charles II of England attempted to ban coffeehouses, seeing them as gathering places for radicals and rebellious people. The prevalence of coffee, its addictive properties, and even its association with social deviance was satirized in Bach's "Coffee Cantata" (BWV 211), composed between 1732 and 1734.

I know less of the history of coffeehouses in the United States, but it doesn't seem that they were prevalent until the past few decades.

Again, it's not about 'refinement' or 'couthness,' it's just a difference in culture, that's all.
 
The tradition of the coffeehouse begins in the Middle East, particularly Ottoman Anatolia. The first recorded coffeehouse was founded in Istanbul in 1555, but they must have existed earlier, as imams banned coffeehouses in Mecca earlier in the 16th century. In these cultures, the coffeehouse was a rough equivalent of the English pub. As alcohol is forbidden in Islamic culture, coffeehouses (often doubling as hookah bars) became social gathering spots, and in some places were seen as hotbeds of political radicalism (hence intermittent bans).

In the 16th century, with increasing trade between European countries and the Ottoman Empire, the first coffeehouses began to appear in Europe. The first recorded European coffeehouse was established in Vienna in 1652, within decades they had spread rapidly. Charles II of England attempted to ban coffeehouses, seeing them as gathering places for radicals and rebellious people. The prevalence of coffee, its addictive properties, and even its association with social deviance was satirized in Bach's "Coffee Cantata" (BWV 211), composed between 1732 and 1734.

I know less of the history of coffeehouses in the United States, but it doesn't seem that they were prevalent until the past few decades.

Again, it's not about 'refinement' or 'couthness,' it's just a difference in culture, that's all.

Coffee as the hot drink of choice in the U.S. actually traces it's roots to colonial times when tarrifs on tea made the traditional english drink of choice prohibitively expensive. It also became a patriotic thing for the same reason, and although American coffee culture may not have quite mirrored Vienna or Italy, it has in fact remained not just a drink of choice, but something identified as "American" for our nations entire history. The Espresso bar style cafe is a relatively new phenomena in the U.S., but it could be argued that the preparation method itself is relatively new, but American's have been enjoying good coffee and experimenting with different preparation methods since before we were a nation. Yes a lot of bad coffee has been passed of on U.S. customers over the years by the likes of Gas Stations and fast food restaurants, and now with Starbucks we have a new kind of chain to bring the latest preparation method down to the lowest common denominator of mediocrity. Bottom Line: Starbucks is fast food espresso. If they did anything for americans in relation to coffee it's the same thing that Pizza hut did for Pizza, McDonalds did for Hamburgers, and Duncan Donuts did for fried dough. they made it cheap (don't let the price fool you) and ubiquitous.
 
In Rome go to Tazza d'Oro Cafe next to the Pantheon. Arguably the best coffee in the world. After drinking this coffee for a few months the thought of drinking Starbucks coffee makes me ill. (You can order on-line)

Also no true Italian would be caught dead walking down the street drinking coffee, it's consumed in the cafe. And paper cups for any coffee drinks, are you kidding me?! No way.

Also, drinking latte's or capacino's after 10AM is another no no-or a sure sign your an "Americano"

Mid-day around 3PM there are lines everywhere for that expresso, nothing else.
 
In Rome go to Tazza d'Oro Cafe next to the Pantheon. Arguably the best coffee in the world. After drinking this coffee for a few months the thought of drinking Starbucks coffee makes me ill. (You can order on-line)

Also no true Italian would be caught dead walking down the street drinking coffee, it's consumed in the cafe. And paper cups for any coffee drinks, are you kidding me?! No way.

Also, drinking latte's or capacino's after 10AM is another no no-or a sure sign your an "Americano"

Mid-day around 3PM there are lines everywhere for that expresso, nothing else.

Lattes are an American invention anyway, acting like an authentic Italian is really not important if you want a latte. I used to care about not drinking a cappuccino after 10 AM but then I thought about it. Eating cereal at midnight or eating cold pizza in the morning is weird too. Eating pizza with a layer of cheese is "unauthentic". Do what you want.

Starbucks gets criticized for being too "pretentious", it gets criticized for being too "dumbed down" and "American". They are a very successful coffee company, it doesn't have to be such a bone of contention.
 
I do not think that Starbucks, or even a lot of the people that go to Starbucks, are pretentious. I do think that they are a very successful company that markets a product to people that are looking for something that they enjoy and they choose to go to Starbucks because they like the experience and the product. If I have to go to a Starbucks, I drink the hot chocolate because I cannot stand the taste of their coffee products. I far prefer Tim Horton's or McDonalds coffee, especially if I am in a hurry. Before you go thinking I am being pretentious, patriotic, or suffering from reverse snobbery, I have a Starbucks card which gets used fairly regularly when I buy coffee for friends.

What I do not understand, in any coffee shop, is why people have to lay siege to a large 4 seat table for just them, their laptop and their 3 hour old half empty extra large cup of coffee. I see this all the time and it drives me nuts.
 
I think that most people who loudly proclaim "I hate starbucks", do so because it is the oh-so trendy thing to say. I've had good cups of coffee at starbucks and I've had terrible cups at fine establishments.

In my opinion, those who say that Starbucks is terrible, have no idea what a truly terrible cup of coffee is... We're talking about a physics dept. machine that hasn't been cleaned in 40 years with the pot left warming for over 14 hours.
Just because it's not as bad as something else is doesn't make it good :tongue_sm

In the end, Starbucks is what it is- the fast food of "gourmet" coffee
 
Just because it's not as bad as something else is doesn't make it good :tongue_sm

In the end, Starbucks is what it is- the fast food of "gourmet" coffee

Generally speaking, if any coffee has the word "gourmet" in front of it, you can be certain that it isn't.
 
I don't particularly like the brewed coffee at Starbucks. I would find a small mom & pop coffee shop you like. The shop I fell in love with near my work unfortunately went out of business though. When I do go to Starbucks I usually get an iced coffee (not iced latte b/c it's twice the price). The coffee is brew the coffee in the morning and refrigerate it instead of keeping it on the boiler all day like at McDonald's. Nonetheless, I've found that if you have an Inn & Out near you, their coffee is better than average.
 
OK, I get it, some people like to be alone in a crowd. But why not just take up a 2 person table, why the 4 person table? Some of the people I have seen do this are reading / writing blog posts and one person was watching a movie.

I have been accused of being old and out of touch, but I prefer to think that I was brought up with rules, boundaries and respect for others.

The link was not working when I tried it, but I did find a cached copy of the article;
http://webcache.googleusercontent.c...log.com/2011/04/why-we-work-in-starbucks.html

I still like Starbuck's hot chocolate. The coffee, not so much.
 
This is a re-post from another thread.

Yesterday, (Sunday) morning was very nice.

Sat outside a local Starbucks with a Clover machine made Italian Roast blend and a cigar.

Some bird wanted to add flavor to my coffee but I told him I just like sugar and half & half. :001_tt2:
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The La Gloria Cubana looks good. The ground carbon in a cup, not so much. The only flavor in it is carbon and ash. :001_huh:
 
I also often go not only to have some coffee or espresso, but to read and perhaps indulge in a cigar. I have to say 50-70% of the allure of Starbucks for me is the atmosphere of a coffee house. :)
 
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