Wheelgun Wednesday

[simon1]

I'm going deep for Wheelgun Wedneday. This is the gun I used when I competed in NRA Action Shooting/Bianchi Cup competitions. It's an S&W 686 built by Bill Jarvis. This thing had an amazing, and light, double action trigger pull. It was reliable with Federal primers. I used a Riley Gilmore/Tasco "Moving target" red dot that you could adjust for the speed of the moving target event. The grips are Hogue with the big base so you could lay the grip on the ground as a hold for prone shooting.

Riley Gilmore? I know him! Been in his shop in Tulsa many times. First time I saw anyone use a laser sight he was in a lane with the dot bouncing all over the target. I believe it was one of his gunsmiths that put a 2 1/2 pound trigger pull on my Blackhawk.

 

[Borderboss]

Riley Gilmore? I know him! Been in his shop in Tulsa many times. First time I saw anyone use a laser sight he was in a lane with the dot bouncing all over the target. I believe it was one of his gunsmiths that put a 2 1/2 pound trigger pull on my Blackhawk.

Yep, Riley Gilmore. I never got to his shop in Tulsa. I ran into him at the Bianchi Cup every year back in the '90s.

He did two generations of the red dot for the Moving Target event, both of which I bought. The first generations was a change to the diode where two additional dots were added, spaced apart from the main dot on either side at the correct distance so that you put the trailing dot on the target, which meant the main dot was actually ahead of the target. The second generation, which you see on this gun, had a moveable diode that you cranked from one side to the other so you only had one dot. These things helped my Mover score immensely.

 

[Borderboss]

I have to jump the gun (no pun intended) on Wheelgun Wednesday as I'm going to be pretty tied up tomorrow. This is my pocket carry gun, the discontinued S&W 940-1 J-frame. Chambered in 9mm with moon clips, it's heavy but I like it. Personally, I think the 9mm will perform better in the 2" barrel than .38Spl +P, and be more controllable than the .357Mag. If my new Garmin chrono ever gets here, I'll check the speed of the loads to confirm that.

 

[nortac]

I have to jump the gun (no pun intended) on Wheelgun Wednesday as I'm going to be pretty tied up tomorrow. This is my pocket carry gun, the discontinued S&W 940-1 J-frame. Chambered in 9mm with moon clips, it's heavy but I like it. Personally, I think the 9mm will perform better in the 2" barrel than .38Spl +P, and be more controllable than the .357Mag. If my new Garmin chrono ever gets here, I'll check the speed of the loads to confirm that.

Please review your Garmin Chrono for us when you get it!

 

[ChiefHA]

 

[Shaving like a boss]

Law Enforcement has move away from Wheel Guns.

Modern Semi Autos own the market.

But in some place with low pay, and small equiptment budgets.

Cop still carry wheel guns. Because they work for tiny with poor pay, and no funds to buy what big agency’s issue.

I was the last one in my department to use a wheel gun. I loved my Security Six and could fire right along side the other guys that carried Sig P220s. It was rather annoying to be forced to transition. I figured with 6 in the gun, 2 speed loaders, and a tac pack with 12 rounds I had 30 rounds on tap. With the P220 you carried 3 magazines, including the one in the gun for 24 rounds. I had 6 more round and could load just as fast with my speed loaders as the others guys could with magazines. But my old friend wasnt tacticool enough. I still have my Security Six along with a 1st gen (read heavy frame) GP100. I prefer the Six. I got rid of my Sig when I left the department. Now its S&W MP and AR15s. I still miss carrying my Six and an Mini14

 

[OkieStubble]

I was the last one in my department to use a wheel gun. I loved my Security Six and could fire right along side the other guys that carried Sig P220s. It was rather annoying to be forced to transition. I figured with 6 in the gun, 2 speed loaders, and a tac pack with 12 rounds I had 30 rounds on tap. With the P220 you carried 3 magazines, including the one in the gun for 24 rounds. I had 6 more round and could load just as fast with my speed loaders as the others guys could with magazines. But my old friend wasnt tacticool enough. I still have my Security Six along with a 1st gen (read heavy frame) GP100. I prefer the Six. I got rid of my Sig when I left the department. Now its S&W MP and AR15s. I still miss carrying my Six and an Mini14

The Ruger Security Six is one of the dream revolvers I personally would love to own, and I’m generally, not a big revolver guy.

But when it comes to the modern law enforcement officer, being well trained enough in order to accurately shoot and speed reload a revolver in realistic training scenarios, much less an actual, real gunfight?

The pro’s of transioto high capacity semi auto duty pistols was an absolute necessity.

Your ability to work that Security Six as efficiently as those other officers next to you with Sig 220’s is the rare anomaly sir and is definitely not the norm in today’s modern LE.

Even today, with no revolvers and only issued semi-auto duty pistols? There are probably, only about 30% of those police officers as a whole who; while think they are actual shooters and believe they can replicate and transfer the skill they have when training on a one way police department range?

Can actually replicate or duplicate their abilities from training; when in actuality, maybe somewhere between 5-10 percent can duplicate the same level of calmness and skill when it turns into an actual real life two way gun range.

Not that expert revolver users aren’t appreciated or don’t have a place in modern LE. But today’s statistics show, that the overwhelming amount of successful armed confrontations by the police? Come from having multiple officers on scene responding to the same actions simultaneously and they are armed with high capacity modern semi- auto duty pistols that are just more inherently accurate and faster to reload for today’s modern, ‘just your regular type of guy’ law enforcement officer.

In today’s modern LE, multiple officers with duty pistols that carry multiple rounds and who are just regular guys and can’t be considered to be weapons experts, are just more easier to find, train and employ; compared to the very few and very rare expert level revolver guys that are out there? Also consider, those revolver guys are mostly over 60 years of age and 60 year olds don’t do well in the police academy.

 

[Shaving like a boss]

The Ruger Security Six is one of the dream revolvers I personally would love to own, and I’m generally, not a big revolver guy.

But when it comes to the modern law enforcement officer, being well trained enough in order to accurately shoot and speed reload a revolver in realistic training scenarios, much less an actual, real gunfight?

The pro’s of transioto high capacity semi auto duty pistols was an absolute necessity.

Your ability to work that Security Six as efficiently as those other officers next to you with Sig 220’s is the rare anomaly sir and is definitely not the norm in today’s modern LE.

Even today, with no revolvers and only issued semi-auto duty pistols? There are probably, only about 30% of those police officers as a whole who; while think they are actual shooters and believe they can replicate and transfer the skill they have when training on a one way police department range?

Can actually replicate or duplicate their abilities from training; when in actuality, maybe somewhere between 5-10 percent can duplicate the same level of calmness and skill when it turns into an actual real life two way gun range.

Not that expert revolver users aren’t appreciated or don’t have a place in modern LE. But today’s statistics show, that the overwhelming amount of successful armed confrontations by the police? Come from having multiple officers on scene responding to the same actions simultaneously and they are armed with high capacity modern semi- auto duty pistols that are just more inherently accurate and faster to reload for today’s modern, ‘just your regular type of guy’ law enforcement officer.

In today’s modern LE, multiple officers with duty pistols that carry multiple rounds and who are just regular guys and can’t be considered to be weapons experts, are just more easier to find, train and employ; compared to the very few and very rare expert level revolver guys that are out there? Also consider, those revolver guys are mostly over 60 years of age and 60 year olds don’t do well in the police academy.

I hear what you are saying brother. One can see the skill, or lack thereof, when reading about on duty gunfights. 30 rounds fired and the "he was just turning his life around" individual only hit 3 or 4 times. It comes down to lack of training and lack of practice. My department only qualifies once a year. Sadly for many, that is the only time their duty weapon leaves leather. I am lucky enough to have a range only about a mile from my home, and so get to shoot on a regular basis. In good weather at least once a week. After 40 years, I am now knocking hard on the door to retirement. As the older guys leave, it seems the religion of spray and pray is taking over for many.

 

[simon1]

I hear what you are saying brother. One can see the skill, or lack thereof, when reading about on duty gunfights. 30 rounds fired and the "he was just turning his life around" individual only hit 3 or 4 times. It comes down to lack of training and lack of practice. My department only qualifies once a year. Sadly for many, that is the only time their duty weapon leaves leather. I am lucky enough to have a range only about a mile from my home, and so get to shoot on a regular basis. In good weather at least once a week. After 40 years, I am now knocking hard on the door to retirement. As the older guys leave, it seems the religion of spray and pray is taking over for many.

I hear that. An appropriate quote from the Crossfire Trail movie.

• J.T. Langston : [Joe misses several cans with his rifle] Why do you shoot that old Evans, Joe?
  Joe Gill : Well, it has twenty-eight rounds, and I ain't a very good shot.
  [pauses]
  Joe Gill : I'm going to town.

 

[jar_]

Long long ago in a time far far way Smith & Wesson introduced the Model 59.

It wasn't the first high cap 9mm, the P-35 was likely the first successful example there but it was American made, DA/SA rather than just SA and held a couple more rounds than the HP. The Revolver still dominated LE usage and a big argument at the time was the two-fold "Why would anyone even need that many rounds" and "That's just gonna encourage stupid shots." Back then there were really only the two players, the HP and the 59. The CZs and Sigs were still years away and the 59 was just slightly smaller and held just slightly more rounds than the SA only HP and the long heavy initial DA stroke was closer in feel and function to the revolvers than the HP.

But real Cops still carried wheelies.

 

[Borderboss]

it seems the religion of spray and pray is taking over for many.

This is very true, which is why perhaps large capacity magazines are wrong for the typical LEO who doesn't touch the gun except when needing to qualify. I see way too many videos where the LEO just does a mag dump and then looks up to see if he/she hit anything. Those bullets have to go somewhere. Hopefully not into some innocent person.

 

[OkieStubble]

But real Cops still carried wheelies.

Those real cops of back in the day, were also military combat veterans. The kiddo’s coming out of the academy today are not.

 

[OkieStubble]

This is very true, which is why perhaps large capacity magazines are wrong for the typical LEO who doesn't touch the gun except when needing to qualify. I see way too many videos where the LEO just does a mag dump and then looks up to see if he/she hit anything. Those bullets have to go somewhere. Hopefully not into some innocent person.

We are all ‘typical’ LEO’s until someone decides to try and kill us?

 

[jar_]

Those real cops of back in the day, were also military combat veterans. The kiddo’s coming out of the academy today are not.

I gotta admit though based on how many mornings each week my local range is tied up with LE qualifying and training and on several Fridays I swear just plain "better'n sitting in the car" days things may be changing. The guys I worked with at Georgia DNR who were on the LE side of things seemed to always make me look pretty pitiful when we were on a range even if they were fresh outta FLETC.

 

[OkieStubble]

I gotta admit though based on how many mornings each week my local range is tied up with LE qualifying and training and on several Fridays I swear just plain "better'n sitting in the car" days things may be changing. The guys I worked with at Georgia DNR who were on the LE side of things seemed to always make me look pretty pitiful when we were on a range even if they were fresh outta FLETC.

LE officers at local, public ranges worries me. Usually, smaller departments that don’t have the resources for their own range, usually still have access to the bigger departments ranges and those bigger departments share their training resources with them? Kinda worrisome to me that they are paying money and reserving range time at your local commercial range. Most commercial ranges, do not have the required space or range design and set ups in order for officers to really train in a non static environment.

 

[jar_]

LE officers at local, public ranges worries me. Usually, smaller departments that don’t have the resources for their own range, usually still have access to the bigger departments ranges and those bigger departments share their training resources with them? Kinda worrisome to me that they are paying money and reserving range time at your local commercial range. Most commercial ranges, do not have the required space or range design and set ups in order for officers to really train in a non static environment.

Lots and lots of Fed's as well as local agencies.

 

[FarmerTan]

My only 6” revolver, a 586 no dash nickel plated with target trigger & hammer with Koa grips from Culina
View attachment 1724337

That is the absolutely most perfect looking gun for underneath the pillow.

 

[FarmerTan]

My all-time favorite wheel gun; my 1954 Colt 357. My dad bought it new, and gave it to me when I entered the Academy in 1977. I carried it for many years on patrol, even long after we had the option to switch to Colt or Sig .45’s. I still shoot it weekly (I’m usually the only one shooting a revolver at the range). They don’t build them like that anymore.

Beautiful condition. Obviously well loved my friend.

 

[Borderboss]

Sorry all, I'm a day late, but not a dollar short, on Wheelgun Wednesday. This is an S&W Model 69 2-3/4 inch. It's an L-Frame .44 Magnum, five shots. I changed the front sight to a Hi-Viz fiber optic sight as it's much easier to see than the factory red ramp.

 

[Champion of Capua]

Sorry all, I'm a day late, but not a dollar short, on Wheelgun Wednesday. This is an S&W Model 69 2-3/4 inch. It's an L-Frame .44 Magnum, five shots. I changed the front sight to a Hi-Viz fiber optic sight as it's much easier to see than the factory red ramp.

No apologies needed, that is one fantastic revolver! Man that’s got to be fun to shoot with that shorter barrel