I still think there is a distinction between wearing a hat indoors, and wearing a hat at a meal table. We haven't abandoned that particular piece of etiquette as far as I can observe.
A really dumb question - hats in the office?
- Thread starter Toothpick
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I'm with the times have changed camp for hats.
With that said I take mine off inside if I'm staying there for a while and would never wear it at the dinner table, fine dinning or not.
For me a hat is to keep the sun out of my eyes and head protected by the sun or cold.
It serves me no purpose inside for me, so donning and doffing is the same as a jacket.
Enjoy the new hat Jason. The only thing that surprised me was you having a shaved head.
The hat rules were always going to be mentioned...... that's a given here.
With that said I take mine off inside if I'm staying there for a while and would never wear it at the dinner table, fine dinning or not.
For me a hat is to keep the sun out of my eyes and head protected by the sun or cold.
It serves me no purpose inside for me, so donning and doffing is the same as a jacket.
Enjoy the new hat Jason. The only thing that surprised me was you having a shaved head.
The hat rules were always going to be mentioned...... that's a given here.
Aside from "hat etiquette" from times long ago, that no one governing body is in control of, why would anyone care if there is nothing offensive on the hat, the hat isn't falling off into the food, isn't interfering with others enjoyment of the food and isn't obstructive to peoples view of food or others at the table?
I didn't say it was rooted in tangible benefits, just that I have observed that most people do remove their hat when they sit at a meal table, of course with the exception of vendor type carts or trucks, a seedy diner, or any Waffle House.
As an aside, most people don't know this, but the "W" in Waffle House is silent.
I am glad of that, Phil. I am always surprised to have you and me disagree about nearly anything! Maybe we are not far off each other here. I am not saying I would expect men to remove their hats when entering a shopping mall, a Walmart, or even a hardware store. I suppose any place where I would expect to keep a winter coat on, I would not expect folks to be expected to remove their hats. My experience with waffle houses is limited!
Maybe things have changed. Did men in the past take their hats off when riding on public transportation? I do not see a need to remove a hat, much less a cap, when one gets on the bus. I suppose if a neighbor came over wearing a baseball cap and had a cup of coffee with me at my kitchen counter, it would not be odd for him to keep the cap on. (Or wear a tank top and gym shorts, for that matter.) Thinking through this I guess it would seem a bit odd for someone to come into a place, much less my home, and take their jacket off and hang it up, but keep their hat on. If they kept their jacket slung over their arm, maybe because their was not place to hang it, keeping the hat/cap on would not be unexpected.
I suppose I do not expect to remove a cap when riding on an airplane, even if I take my jacket off and store it in a bin. I think keeping a fedora on would look a bit weird, but there isn't really a safe place to stow a fedora on a plane.
Ha! You knew au courant, but not "gauche"! I actually had to look up "gauche" myself. I did not just now find the definition I thought I found originally. But "lacking social experience or grace" or "lacking social grace, sensitivity, or acuteness; awkward; crude; tactless." A implication, I thought, of not knowing the "rules." Of not of offending anyone exactly--who does care about whether someone else wears a cap or not! But of dissing someone for lack of polish, silently. Sort of a social class thing. So to that extent, an outdated thing indeed.Thanks to this thread, I learnt a new word....Gauge.
Maybe it is not the perfect word.
The sample sentence they gave seemed priceless: "Their exquisite manners always make me feel gauche." I may be more cynical that most, but to me a lot of etiquette, at least originally, was intended to go back to something like the concept of a gentleman being someone "who is never unintentionally rude." And I think sometimes exquisite manners are intended to make others feel gauche! Which itself seems gauche to me.
AimlessWanderer
Remember to forget me!
I wasn't born in the heyday of hats, and so was never entrenched in the etiquette of old. There is a certain practicality of leaving a hat on indoors nowadays (if it's somewhere you're not stopping long), as so few places have anywhere safe to stow it, and you're a lot less likely to forget it when you leave. Plus, you don't look a plonker for being the only person with hat hair. 
That said, I do still find it a little odd when I see hats worn indoors, and wonder if they have simply forgotten its still on their head.
As to buying a hat to intentionally wear indoors... nope, does not compute. That's like buying wellies to wear as slippers, or outdoor technical performance clothing as pyjamas.
It doesn't offend my sensibilities. Heck, I've got a braided goatee, and near waist length hair, so I am well practised in not confining myself to the limitations of other people's minds.
However, it does still seem to be a case of specifically looking at outdoor clothing for an indoor setting. Not something I would do, but then the vast majority of the people in this world, aren't me.
That said, I do still find it a little odd when I see hats worn indoors, and wonder if they have simply forgotten its still on their head.
As to buying a hat to intentionally wear indoors... nope, does not compute. That's like buying wellies to wear as slippers, or outdoor technical performance clothing as pyjamas.It doesn't offend my sensibilities. Heck, I've got a braided goatee, and near waist length hair, so I am well practised in not confining myself to the limitations of other people's minds.
However, it does still seem to be a case of specifically looking at outdoor clothing for an indoor setting. Not something I would do, but then the vast majority of the people in this world, aren't me.
The military still has strict guidelines on headwear, but it's uniformity and safety as the basis rather than etiquette.
A military member wouldn't wear a cover in the vicinity of aircraft unless it was chin-strapped in place to avoid the possibility of Foreign Object Damage (FOD) to engines.
Covers are generally not worn indoors unless the wearer is armed or otherwise engaged in an official on duty capacity.
Wearing a cover in a military dining facility is a strict no-no, unless you are on duty as a mess cook or mess attendant.
Covers are generally a must do if you are outdoors except when to do so would appear rude or disrespectful.
A military member wouldn't wear a cover in the vicinity of aircraft unless it was chin-strapped in place to avoid the possibility of Foreign Object Damage (FOD) to engines.
Covers are generally not worn indoors unless the wearer is armed or otherwise engaged in an official on duty capacity.
Wearing a cover in a military dining facility is a strict no-no, unless you are on duty as a mess cook or mess attendant.
Covers are generally a must do if you are outdoors except when to do so would appear rude or disrespectful.
If you were caught wearing a beret inside the doors of our dining hall, someone spotted you, the doors closed, bell was rung and you bought everyone inside a round of drinks.
Luckily, I was caught only once early on and there were only 5-6 people inside playing pool.
Sorry if I seem overly chatty today! BTW, while I asked for a citation to "etiquette authority" earlier, I cannot quite imagine what an etiquette authority would consistent of in 2022. It occurred to me that compiling a comprehensive book of etiquette these days would seem an impossible task. It does appear that the latest Emily Post Etiquette, the 19th edition, if I recall, came out in 2017. And the Emily Post Institute has a web site. And Miss Manners still has her column and a website. And I came across a recent list of the top 25 etiquette websites. So perhaps not everyone sees this as an impossible task. 
And as to the way things used to be, there is a great quote somewhere that I have not been able to track down for years now, from some important or self-important English gentleman--not Oscar Wilde!--I assume some time before 1900, but perhaps not all that long before 1900, of something to the effect of
"I do not know much about history, government, politics, economics, business, or the arts. My formal education is lacking. But I do know exactly what to wear to an afternoon garden party, and that makes all the difference."
If anyone has that exact quote, I would love to have it!
And as to the way things used to be, there is a great quote somewhere that I have not been able to track down for years now, from some important or self-important English gentleman--not Oscar Wilde!--I assume some time before 1900, but perhaps not all that long before 1900, of something to the effect of
"I do not know much about history, government, politics, economics, business, or the arts. My formal education is lacking. But I do know exactly what to wear to an afternoon garden party, and that makes all the difference."
If anyone has that exact quote, I would love to have it!
Personally, I'd rather err on the side of helping maintain our longstanding traditions of polite decorum, even if it means risking drifting into a bit of anachronism from time to time, and maintaining some degree of "hat etiquette" is part of that.
Once you consistently wrap a good hat around your noggin, and wrap your noggin around hat etiquette, it's really not that hard. Or complicated.
In the OP's situation, there's nothing inherently wrong with "fitting in" with the established local culture at his workplace, be that hats, t-shirts, shorts ... whatever. One place will define "casual Friday" as not wearing a tie with your suit, and another place will define it as t-shirt and jeans so long as they're not full of holes or stains. And so forth. One geographic area will take one approach, and another another.
Ketchup on hot dogs ... beans in chili ... hats worn in the office ... BST photo without that little piece of paper with your username written on it ... sure, you can find places where "everybody does it and nobody minds" ... and elsewhere doing so will quickly mark you out as someone who "just doesn't get it".
The best I can do is suggest you read "The Garden Party" short story by Katherine Mansfield. Absolutely no idea if that quote is in there, but the worst that can happen is you spend a couple hours reading a good short story.
Once you consistently wrap a good hat around your noggin, and wrap your noggin around hat etiquette, it's really not that hard. Or complicated.
In the OP's situation, there's nothing inherently wrong with "fitting in" with the established local culture at his workplace, be that hats, t-shirts, shorts ... whatever. One place will define "casual Friday" as not wearing a tie with your suit, and another place will define it as t-shirt and jeans so long as they're not full of holes or stains. And so forth. One geographic area will take one approach, and another another.
Ketchup on hot dogs ... beans in chili ... hats worn in the office ... BST photo without that little piece of paper with your username written on it ... sure, you can find places where "everybody does it and nobody minds" ... and elsewhere doing so will quickly mark you out as someone who "just doesn't get it".
The best I can do is suggest you read "The Garden Party" short story by Katherine Mansfield. Absolutely no idea if that quote is in there, but the worst that can happen is you spend a couple hours reading a good short story.
ylekot
On the lookout for a purse
It's a fishing hat. It may have a legal exemption!
If you can wear jeans, sneakers, and t-shirts it appears you have a very liberal dress code.
Just use common sense.
Just use common sense.
garyg
B&B membership has its percs
I'm reminded of the Soprano's scene where Tony gets upset because some wimp is wearing a baseball hat at the next table in a nice restaurant. I'm not a hat wearer, save when required to be outside in the winter time, or sometimes when on the water all day with sunshine, and remove it when no longer required (as inside). At a couple jobs along the road a hardhat was mandatory for safety reasons. In no event would I wear a hat as just an adornment, so my view may be askew ..
If one has to ask the question whether something is wrong there's already a suspicion that it may well be .. but if the fashion accessory hat is so important to an individual perhaps they could grow some gumption and just wear it .. and be aware some folks won't appreciate it in an office setting or a restaurant where hot dogs aren't on the menu ..
If one has to ask the question whether something is wrong there's already a suspicion that it may well be .. but if the fashion accessory hat is so important to an individual perhaps they could grow some gumption and just wear it .. and be aware some folks won't appreciate it in an office setting or a restaurant where hot dogs aren't on the menu ..
My Dad if he were Italian!
Reminded me of another story about my Dad for my book. (The asking for the license plate numbers!) Oh, I miss him.
Easy. Men hats off indoors, ladies optional, unless your faith requires otherwise.
When I go into a restaurant (particularly casual ones) and see guys sitting at their table with a hats on, I just wish they would take it off. I'm not a stickler, but I think it's just better manners.
I imagine the origin of why it is seems "offensive" or at least a bit "insensitive" goes back 100+ years ago when we were an agrarian society, where most people did manual labor and needed a hat for protection outdoors. That when coming indoors to a clean setting a person would take off their dirty or wet outwear before dining or generally socializing. In a similar vein, I find it very difficult to keep on my shoes when inside the house knowing that dirt is getting tracked in. I am not implying that a hat is as dirty as a pair of shoes, but if you live in a rural area around dirt roads it can get soiled pretty fast.
Like the EDS example, I have heard that IBM started their white shirt uniform back in the early days as a way to show their clients that they were professionals, and not part time farmers coming into the office after milking the cow or feeding the chickens. The white shirt, tie, shined shoes, etc. provided a clear demarcation between the labor classes.
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