Chronicles of a terrible honer ;)

[eKretz]

We've discussed this in another thread also. Some of us want to know the hows and whys and discuss those. Some of us don't care and just want to get a sharp razor. I say whatever floats your boat, go for it. Things like:

It's really not about magnification and mirror finishes.

You can't really say for others, because for some folks, it really IS about that, as they enjoy that part of the experience. For others, not so much - and that's fine too.

 

[bluesman 7]

We've discussed this in another thread also. Some of us want to know the hows and whys and discuss those. Some of us don't care and just want to get a sharp razor. I say whatever floats your boat, go for it. Things like:



You can't really say for others, because for some folks, it really IS about that, as they enjoy that part of the experience. For others, not so much - and that's fine too.

 

[Twelvefret]

We've discussed this in another thread also. Some of us want to know the hows and whys and discuss those. Some of us don't care and just want to get a sharp razor. I say whatever floats your boat, go for it. Things like:

The whys are you have to establish a bevel and proceed to a shaveable edge. The how's are you have to use an abrasive starting with lower grits/microns toward higher grits/microns.

I think we are all into developing the muscle memory, touch, hearing, and feel or otherwise the end result with not be successful.

One reason I am glad I started with films is that it taught me about the process and the result of using several micron progressions. I feel that knowledge has helped me use the two stones I acquired.

I do not think I would have accomplished the same ruining a half dozen Chinese razors. However, I am glad to read the OP is thoroughly enjoying the process.

 

[eKretz]

The whys are you have to establish a bevel and proceed to a shaveable edge. The how's are you have to use an abrasive starting with lower grits/microns toward higher grits/microns.

I think we are all into developing the muscle memory, touch, hearing, and feel or otherwise the end result with not be successful.

One reason I am glad I started with films is that it taught me about the process and the result of using several micron progressions. I feel that knowledge has helped me use the two stones I acquired.

I do not think I would have accomplished the same ruining a half dozen Chinese razors. However, I am glad to read the OP is thoroughly enjoying the process.

That's the hows and whys for you. There are many levels, and they can go much deeper than that. Some rhetorical examples: Why do some people get harsh edges with one type of abrasive but not others? How do they avoid that? From this very thread: Why does rotating the angle that the blade presents to the hone sometimes create a microbevel? How do we stop that from happening?

There are a million more for those with an endlessly curious mind.

 

[Twelvefret]

That's the hows and whys for you. There are many levels, and they can go much deeper than that. Some rhetorical examples: Why do some people get harsh edges with one type of abrasive but not others? How do they avoid that? From this very thread: Why does rotating the angle that the blade presents to the hone sometimes create a microbevel? How do we stop that from happening?

There are a million more for those with an endlessly curious mind.

Are you suggesting that what I said is not true? That a bevel does not need to be established, that a progression is not necessary. There are fundamentals to everything.

 

[eKretz]

Are you suggesting that what I said is not true? That a bevel does not need to be established, that a progression is not necessary. There are fundamentals to everything.

*Sigh* *SMH*

Did I say that? The point that you seem to have missed is that there is MORE to it than that for some folks. More that they want to understand about the process than the fundamentals.

 

[combatcrab]

Sort of a non-update.

Last time I worked on R4 it looked like this off of the 12K.

The DMT roughed it up pretty well, and I didn't spend too much time on higher stones.

I used the King 1k today instead; flattening it frequently. I think the scratches are less deep. Not totally sure.

My new black background (poly cloth) didn't work as well as I'd hoped. I'll look for something else.

Messed around with it a while trying to find a bevel. Tried lots of laps and the burr method, but wasn't able to pass any sharpness tests without stropping. I think this means I'm still using too much pressure and rolling the edge.

I ran a progression just to change things up, fully aware I want going to get a good edge w/o a good bevel.

Skipped the Kota 3k / 8k. I think that stone is causing me problems. I'll experiment with that when I have more time.

6k

12k

Plan to try again with the King 1k when time allows, focusing on pressure.

 

[duke762]

I've been following this thread and learning a lot. There is always so much to learn even after achieving good shaving edges. Pressure and speeding through the progression have always been bug-a-boos for me. You seem to have the tools and proper attitude. I think it was Gamma that said it best. Hone until it hurts and then hone some more. I love to hone while some look at it as a chore. I believe you will eventually succeed judging by the progress shown in your pictures. Thank you for sharing your journey.

 

[Ufgoodies]

I sit here on the edge of my seat wondering if this thread is not active because of the children and lack of time, or if he suddenly understands the meaning of life and honing? Either way I cannot wait for the next installation of “chronicles...”.

 

[combatcrab]

I sit here on the edge of my seat wondering if this thread is not active because of the children and lack of time, or if he suddenly understands the meaning of life and honing? Either way I cannot wait for the next installation of “chronicles...”.

Haha sorry. Been on travel for work. They won't let me hone in the ATL terminal

 

[Clay S]

Haha sorry. Been on travel for work. They won't let me hone in the ATL terminal

"Sir put down the knife"
"It's a straight razor. I'm just . . ."
<Tazes honer>

 

[NPV]

Sort of a non-update.

Last time I worked on R4 it looked like this off of the 12K.

The DMT roughed it up pretty well, and I didn't spend too much time on higher stones.

I used the King 1k today instead; flattening it frequently. I think the scratches are less deep. Not totally sure.

My new black background (poly cloth) didn't work as well as I'd hoped. I'll look for something else.

Messed around with it a while trying to find a bevel. Tried lots of laps and the burr method, but wasn't able to pass any sharpness tests without stropping. I think this means I'm still using too much pressure and rolling the edge.

I ran a progression just to change things up, fully aware I want going to get a good edge w/o a good bevel.

Skipped the Kota 3k / 8k. I think that stone is causing me problems. I'll experiment with that when I have more time.

6k

12k

Plan to try again with the King 1k when time allows, focusing on pressure.

Looks a lot better after the King bevel set. But I can still some deeper scratches reaching the edge. Removing the King 1k scratches with the 6k side is a chore (I have one). But I think a good 3k stone or 9u film will fill the gap in your progression. I jump from the King to 9u film and cuts all of the scratches out in 50ish laps.

 

[combatcrab]

Holy smokes. Remember 2019? ...when we had the time and head-space to fixate on things like, sharpening razors? wow.

So. I'm not dead, but I can see how that would be a reasonable assumption.

Since my last post, I've moved states, bought a house with a pond (possible mistake), and welcomed twin daughters to the world, three months ahead of schedule. It's been an adventure.

I think the only thing I haven't done since my last post was sharpen anything, until today.

Today I happened across a box of stuff. If you've been following this thread, it's stuff you'll recognize.

I don't have my awesome workshop anymore, just a piece of plywood across two sawhorses. What I did have today was a couple of free hours, so I went after it.

What I also have now, I think, is a fresh perspective. I didn't sit down expecting any sort of revelation, or to create anything perfect. More than anything I think I sat down to do this...just so I could sit My mind wasn't really focused on the task, the way I might have in 2019.

I flattened my stones using 220 grit paper on a marble tile.
I used that same 220 paper and tile to take a burr off both sides of a fresh "gold dollar"
I used an x stroke to polish the edge across each stone in succession (400, 1k, 3k, 6k, 8k, 12k).
I cant find my strop at the moment, so I settled for some cardboard w/ green compound.
I did this for two razors, and it took me just over an hour for each.

In the end, they both seem plenty sharp and felt fine to shave with.

Looking back, I'm really not sure what I was doing, but these are my two guesses:

1. I went into this expecting too much. I actually think I started out fine, but expected results that takes far more practice, and feel, and muscle memory. Also, I'd be willing to be that no amount of sharpening will turn a gold-dollar into a light saber.

2. I was overthinking it. a lot. For whatever reason I got away from simple, flat strokes. I also got wrapped around in my head about blade profiles, and angles, and stuff.... I burn't through a lot of metal for no good reason.

I don't know if this will be my last update, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going back to chasing my previous expectations. I'm giving up on the goal of a blade that will cut loose hairs dangled over the razor. That just feels like sorcery. I'll shave with these until they pull a bit, then sharpen them again. Maybe I'll get there, maybe I won't. If something interesting happens the next time I sharpen, I'll let you know.

Do these look any different than my previous attempts under the microscope? Probably not. I don't have any interest in setting that up again. If someone here really wants that, I'll do it. It just doesn't interest me the way it used to.

I hope everyone else had an interesting and safe 2020 and 2021, and I wish you all better adventures in 2022.

-Crab

 

[Slash McCoy]

Holy smokes. Remember 2019? ...when we had the time and head-space to fixate on things like, sharpening razors? wow.

So. I'm not dead, but I can see how that would be a reasonable assumption.

Since my last post, I've moved states, bought a house with a pond (possible mistake), and welcomed twin daughters to the world, three months ahead of schedule. It's been an adventure.
View attachment 1386324

View attachment 1386325

I think the only thing I haven't done since my last post was sharpen anything, until today.

Today I happened across a box of stuff. If you've been following this thread, it's stuff you'll recognize.

View attachment 1386326

I don't have my awesome workshop anymore, just a piece of plywood across two sawhorses. What I did have today was a couple of free hours, so I went after it.

View attachment 1386327

What I also have now, I think, is a fresh perspective. I didn't sit down expecting any sort of revelation, or to create anything perfect. More than anything I think I sat down to do this...just so I could sit My mind wasn't really focused on the task, the way I might have in 2019.

I flattened my stones using 220 grit paper on a marble tile.
I used that same 220 paper and tile to take a burr off both sides of a fresh "gold dollar"
I used an x stroke to polish the edge across each stone in succession (400, 1k, 3k, 6k, 8k, 12k).
I cant find my strop at the moment, so I settled for some cardboard w/ green compound.
I did this for two razors, and it took me just over an hour for each.

In the end, they both seem plenty sharp and felt fine to shave with.

Looking back, I'm really not sure what I was doing, but these are my two guesses:

1. I went into this expecting too much. I actually think I started out fine, but expected results that takes far more practice, and feel, and muscle memory. Also, I'd be willing to be that no amount of sharpening will turn a gold-dollar into a light saber.

2. I was overthinking it. a lot. For whatever reason I got away from simple, flat strokes. I also got wrapped around in my head about blade profiles, and angles, and stuff.... I burn't through a lot of metal for no good reason.

I don't know if this will be my last update, but I'm pretty sure I'm not going back to chasing my previous expectations. I'm giving up on the goal of a blade that will cut loose hairs dangled over the razor. That just feels like sorcery. I'll shave with these until they pull a bit, then sharpen them again. Maybe I'll get there, maybe I won't. If something interesting happens the next time I sharpen, I'll let you know.

View attachment 1386328

Do these look any different than my previous attempts under the microscope? Probably not. I don't have any interest in setting that up again. If someone here really wants that, I'll do it. It just doesn't interest me the way it used to.

I hope everyone else had an interesting and safe 2020 and 2021, and I wish you all better adventures in 2022.

-Crab

Actually, you can get a GD pretty darn sharp. Take your average "good" razor and send it to a randomly selected professional honemeister. Then hone a GD66 using The Method. If you do it right, the GD will be the sharper of the two. Now if you hone both of them the same, yeah, the GD will be a little less sharp than the other, probably. Maybe enough to notice, maybe not. This is because the bevel angle of the GD is rather obtuse. Which is not necessarily a bad thing, BTW.

Can't do that with a dull razor. And it is the bottom of the barrel, "entry level" GD66.

If you are happy with your shaves, then you good. If you want to chase the dragon a bit, try The Method. The trick is, you need to read all of the threads end to end, because Method honing has evolved a bit over the few years it has been a thing. You also have to be willing to do everything exactly as directed. Exactly. 100%. This removes all the guessing and artsy fartsy stuff and subjectivity. It is not about learning to hone. It is about following instructions and just honing. Not learning-- DOING. Of course you learn as you do, but the objective is immediate or very very early results that are startling until you get used to seeing just how sharp a piece of steel can get. It could be said that such an extreme level of sharpness is not needed, for a good shave. However, with a GD, I just politely but insistently disagree. The geometry of the razor is such that a little extra help is quite welcome. YMMV of course.

 

[Frank Shaves]

Congrats on the birth of your twin daughters!

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

The heel need correcting, you are honing on the stabilizer, and the tang which are keeping the heel half of the razor off the stone.

The bevel width is narrower at the heel than the toe. If you correct/ reshape the heel and move the heel corner away from the stabilizer about a quarter inch and pay attention to your strokes the razor will sit flat on the stone, and you can hone the whole edge.

Reshape the heel with a diamond plate and fully set the bevel on the 1k.

Your edge also appears to have a frown, could be just the photo and shadow, but likely caused by honing on the stabilizer and tang.

It is an easy 5-minute fix, you can get a gold dollar to shave well with a bit of repair work. They are razor kits, you can not just hone them like vintage razors, as you have found.

 

[combatcrab]

Actually, you can get a GD pretty darn sharp.

Slash got me. Apparently that's all that was needed to make me eat most of my last post and send me back out to the garage

Congrats on the birth of your twin daughters!

Thank you!

The heel need correcting, you are honing on the stabilizer, and the tang which are keeping the heel half of the razor off the stone.

Funny. I just came back to post that I went this route. Kinda.

I took a fresh GD (I'm now actively working 3 of them), and ground the heel out a bit with a Dremel, checking my work periodically with a sharpie. It's not pretty.

After bevel setting on 220 grit it's noticeably sharper at this stage than anything else I've done. I have to pause here for the day, but I'm optimistic.

It would appear that I'm back at this again. Will probably be setting up the microscope after all

 

[Christian1212]

Haven't kept up with the thread but have you tried out a shave ready ready razor to set your benchmark? I think finding a vintage might be helpful. If you pay shipping both ways I can out a 12k edge in one of the razors for you as well

 

[combatcrab]

Haven't kept up with the thread but have you tried out a shave ready ready razor to set your benchmark?

Hi! Yes. Early in the process I picked up a shave ready Double Duck from Whipped Dog. It's very nice.

 

[combatcrab]

Just finished reading an article on modifying GDs that I had no idea was written by Slash until I got to the end. Wasn't sure I went about modding the heel correctly, article confirms this.
The Basics of Gold Dollar Modification - http://www.growleymonster.com/basic_gd_modification.html