How sharp is sharp enough? (SR vs DE)

[KrstGor]

I know very little about this, so pls forgive me for asking perhaps a banal Q.

So, claims are that a SR can never be as sharp as a DE blade or Shavette, because of the nature how these DE blades are manufactured, their ergonomic, etc.

Is this true?

Then another claim goes smth. like "although a SR is not as sharp as DE blade, it removes hair effortlessly due to its weight". This seems controversial, as a normal 5/8 - 6/8 SR is going to be much lighter than a DE razor. My Muhle R41 Grande weights 3.2oz, while a heavy-duty true wedge Koraat 8/8 weights merely 2.6oz in comparison.

So, how exactly does this work?

Is shaving with a SR truly that much easier in terms of removing hair, gliding the blade over one’s face than shaving with a DE?

 

[Seckin Bodur]

Not exactly one way or another in terms of shaving comfort. DE blades are generally a lot sharper than any of the SRs I've got, honed by me or by some more advanced users. An efficient DE gives much easier and as clean as it not cleaner than a SR. So it should be just the rituals of SR we are choosing.

On the other hand well honed SRs, even if they are duller than DE blades, may have smoothened edges those are safer and more comfortable to the skin than a bare DE razor. So it isn't a sharpness race we are after but a more refined approach to a personal activity.

Ps. If not honed to a minimum, SRs are pulling and not comfortable at all.

 

[Tomo]

I would say that SR edges can be made extremely sharp if honed on lapping films and a progression of diamond pasted balsa strops up to 0.1 micron. If hanging hair tests are anything to go by, they are just as sharp (sharper?) than my Feather DE blades. There is no doubt that both can be plenty sharp enough for shaving.

There is little doubt that DE shaving is easier and more user friendly. I believe some people may feel that a DE blade is sharper because they feel less cutting resistance, however, you also need to consider the blade length. A straight razor blade is three times as long as a DE blade so there is bound to be more resistance across such a long blade even if it is as sharp as the DE blade.

 

[rbscebu]

First, a SR can be made as sharp (or even sharper) than a DE blade. It takes time and skill. After all, they are both just pieces of metal. That being said, it is not just the sharpness of the edge that counts in shaving. There is also the bevel angel and the bevel surface finish that comes into play for a good shave. It is a balance of the three that most most wet shavers are looking for and each person is different.

As for the razor's mass (weight), again that is a personal preference. Some DE razors can have a mass noticably less than many normal SRs.

The main advantage of using a SR for many is that the shaver has more control over his whole shaving process; sharpness, bevel angle and finish, technique, etc.

And to top it all off, SR shaving is more fun - for me.

 

[camoloc]

if I test the edge of my blade I get the answer to this. they can be scary sharp.

I'd say sharper than a DE blade backed up with some authority to boot. I give the SR more respect than the feathers which I very much like.

you touch it and you just know.

just a new persons perspective. take it for what it's worth. due to my hobbys, I'm very familiar with sharp.....this is a whole different sharp level I have not seen before.

camo

 

[Christian1212]

If I am honest I have only had one guy give me a straight with an edge sharper than a DE (aljuwaiedak on youtube) but a few that have gotten IMO at that same level. I am new to DE and say I can get closer shave with straight (but I am new to DE still, closeness of shave is very close to straight). I can also hone a really nice edge up for me that cuts easily. Comparing my edges to DE, my edges are a lot more comfortable and my face feels better after the shave. However the DE IMO is decently comfortable, offers great shaves, and way smaller learning curve. Depending on edge I can do weight of blade or very small pressure.

As Seckin put it, I wouldn't try shaving with a straight unless you are looking to enjoy the ritual, otherwise DE is probably the way to go

 

[rbscebu]

.....this is a whole different sharp level I have not seen before.

I think I suggested to you previously that SR sharp is a whole new ball game.

 

[camoloc]

I think I suggested to you previously that SR sharp is a whole new ball game.

true story no lie!!!!

camo

 

[Polarbeard]

It's not about sharpness. As stated above there are people that have the skill to make their straight razors extremely sharp as well as there are large differences in DE blade sharpness. Let us assume that we have a straight razor and a DE blade that are both just as sharp and that the straight razor weighs exactly as much as the DE razor with the blade loaded into it. The shaving experience will even so be very different.

As stated above a straight razor blade is much longer than a DE blade further more you have a very small span on the angle that a straight razor can be held at while shaving before it begins to cut skin instead of stubble. This means that any self preserving straight razor shaver must be very alert not to cut himself and thus he most likely is more aware of the skin pressure he applies. Furthermore even if both the DE shaver and the straight razor shaver let the the weight of the razor do the job the weight of the longer straight razor blade is distributed over a much larger area of skin so the average pressure would be much lower.

So given the same total weight, sharpness and same level of proficiency the straight razor shaver will get a smoother shave since the weight is distributed over a larger area and he doesn't have the luxury of the DE shaver too be able to be a bit sloppy with the blade angle.

In short none of the alternatives are better than the other, but the DE shaver has an easier shave while the straight razor shaver most likely will have a smoother shave.

 

[ajduplessis]

I prefer my straight edges over Feather blades (or any other DE blade) in both sharpness and smoothness. This is my experience, yours might be different.

 

[stone and strop]

I was recently testing some Wilkinson DE blades in a shavette and I had to use my straights to finish because they were sharper.

The finish on your bevel has nothing to do with how a razor will shave. It can be anything from very hazy to super polished - makes no difference.
Bevel angle, quality of edge and technique will dictate a shave.

 

[rbscebu]

....
The finish on your bevel has nothing to do with how a razor will shave. It can be anything from very hazy to super polished - makes no difference. ....

I disagree with you on this. I have experimented with different micron finishings on identical razors and found that some bevel finishings, particularly 0.25u pasted balsa and to a less extent 0.3u film, provide a noticably inferior shave compared to 1.0u film and 0.5u and 0.1u pasted balsa.

All look like a mirror finish, however they give different results.

 

[stone and strop]

I disagree with you on this. I have experimented with different micron finishings on identical razors and found that some bevel finishings, particularly 0.25u pasted balsa and to a less extent 0.3u film, provide a noticably inferior shave compared to 1.0u film and 0.5u and 0.1u pasted balsa.

All look like a mirror finish, however they give different results.

Its ok to disagree, but you are incorrect.
Its the edge and nothing but the edge. The surface of the bevel is irrelevant.
Natural stones leave quite a varied surface yet they can shave fantastic, so how can that be? Why would people who have honed for many years use them?

You only have experience with film so not sure what you are basing this conclusion on.
.25 Micron vs .5 or.1 - really? I would bet if you used a proper microscope you would see your edge breaking down and giving you a slightly harsher shave. Its not the bevel, sorry.

Feel free to reach out to a senior member who you think has tons of experience and ask them. They will tell you.

 

[Doc4]

Its ok to disagree, but you are incorrect

I didn't know SWMBO was a honemeister!

 

[stone and strop]

She's working on it.
Everyone has to start somewhere.

 

[Dave Sl8r]

How sharp is sharp enough? When the hair is removed from your face with the least resistance, and bloodletting as possible. IOW comfortable.

Which blade can be made sharper all boils down to the steels composition.

We can sharpen to a point the steel can’t support the edge for any real use. The trick is holding the edge. So we compromise for utility.

Higher end steels can take, and hold a finer edge then a moderate and low grade steels. I would think a SR made from M390, Elmax, CMPS90V, CMP-20CV to name a few, could be sharpened to as fine, if not finer than most DE edges.

JMO

 

[ajduplessis]

Its all about the edge, hope this illustration can help visualize edge shape and formation. Synthetic (6micron) vs Natural coticule (16micron)

 

[Swedish Steel]

Then another claim goes smth. like "although a SR is not as sharp as DE blade, it removes hair effortlessly due to its weight". This seems controversial, as a normal 5/8 - 6/8 SR is going to be much lighter than a DE razor. My Muhle R41 Grande weights 3.2oz, while a heavy-duty true wedge Koraat 8/8 weights merely 2.6oz in comparison.

So, how exactly does this work?

Is shaving with a SR truly that much easier in terms of removing hair, gliding the blade over one’s face than shaving with a DE?

I would say that you really cannot compare SR to DE since a SR has an infinite blade gap and an enormous blade exposure compared to a any DE (except perhaps a Ming Shi cranked up to 12). To make a comparison you would have to use a shavette. Or a really old safety razor that uses hones "short SR" as blades.

Here I must say that proper SR are more comfortable than shavettes, but shavettes are sometimes so much easier to use all things considered.

 

[stone and strop]

I would say that you really cannot compare SR to DE since a SR has an infinite blade gap and an enormous blade exposure compared to a any DE (except perhaps a Ming Shi cranked up to 12). To make a comparison you would have to use a shavette. Or a really old safety razor that uses hones "short SR" as blades.

Here I must say that proper SR are more comfortable than shavettes, but shavettes are sometimes so much easier to use all things considered.

This is how I test a DE blade to a straight. A shavette.
If I can't get as close of a shave with a shavette as with a straight then the straight is sharper.
In a recent comparison I took 5 swipes across the same troubled area with a shavette with no change in what remained.
I took a straight across the same area, completely gone in two. Same process, same angle.

 

[Seckin Bodur]

This is how I test a DE blade to a straight. A shavette.
If I can't get as close of a shave with a shavette as with a straight then the straight is sharper.
In a recent comparison I took 5 swipes across the same troubled area with a shavette with no change in what remained.
I took a straight across the same area, completely gone in two. Same process, same angle.

That is interesting. Maybe the microserrations on a honed SR work better in grabbing the whiskers than a coated, non serrated (by additional coatings etc) DE blade.