Karve Diem

[tim33z]

OK, fair enough. But my wife has a cousin who headed up the returns and refunds (i.e., the customer relations) department for a very well-known and successful brand of clothing and accessories that all of you would instantly recognize. She headed a department of 11 people who spent pretty much all day every day dealing with calls and e-mails from frustrated or even angry customers who didn't get what they wanted, or got it but it wasn't what they expected, or got it but not quickly enough, or returned it but hadn't received the exchange or refund, or got a refund but not in the amount they were expecting, etc., etc., etc., etc., and etc. Their job was to turn a customer's negative experience into a positive one, and that is hard, time consuming work. I think in the age of the internet and (seemingly) instantaneous communication, our expectations have risen greatly in this area, especially as to the providing of timely and accurate information, but when you talk with someone who works in this field, you learn that those high expectations can be tough to meet.

Ideally, Chris would perfect his steel razor, have his manufacturing process fully set, have his distribution system fully in place, and build up a large inventory before saying anything about it to anyone. Then maybe he wouldn't need a customer relations department. But in my experience, that isn't realistic, even for a larger and deeper-pocketed company. Anyway, peace to all.

+1 The internet has spawned a bunch of whiners that want it now, and can post here about their discontent. If they weren't busy whining, they might discover that a firm has a sole proprietor, and also isn't into making emails instead of razors, and if they had any sense would factor that into their decision. And, having made that decision, not cry about it

+1000!

My order has shipped already, but with the seemingly high number of orders being cancelled in order to get a refund, lots of guys will be moving up the pecking order to receive theirs sooner. So keep whining and cancel your order to help someone else out...
Think of it like a PIF of your spot on the ladder to buy....

 

[Earcutter]

But seriously, you know it’s 2019 right? I ordered something off of Amazon Saturday, and got it today!

 

[garyg]

Since its 2019, I buy Amazon, for stuff that I can't find close, because Amazon put them out of business, or because they didn't offer what Amazon had .. whichever. Try finding Karve Razors at Amazon then ..

 

[Yojimbo1968]

Since its 2019, I buy Amazon, for stuff that I can't find close, because Amazon put them out of business, or because they didn't offer what Amazon had .. whichever. Try finding Karve Razors at Amazon

Since its 2019, I buy Amazon, for stuff that I can't find close, because Amazon put them out of business, or because they didn't offer what Amazon had .. whichever. Try finding Karve Razors at Amazon then ..

Better yet, try Walmart. Lots of small artisans selling there. And instant gratification!

 

[Yojimbo1968]

+1000!

My order has shipped already, but with the seemingly high number of orders being cancelled in order to get a refund, lots of guys will be moving up the pecking order to receive theirs sooner. So keep whining and cancel your order to help someone else out...
Think of it like a PIF of your spot on the ladder to buy....

Please. Would really like to move up. And, why yes, I am willing to wait for a product that meets the manufacturers exacting standards.

 

[merovirginian]

Received my shipping notice!

 

[Bakker1964]

+1 The internet has spawned a bunch of whiners that want it now, and can post here about their discontent. If they weren't busy whining, they might discover that a firm has a sole proprietor, and also isn't into making emails instead of razors, and if they had any sense would factor that into their decision. And, having made that decision, not cry about it

I don't think it fair to characterize these complaints as "whining", as they are the result of the manufacturer's creation of a belief that product WAS available (until it wasn't), and a lack of communication about what had changed.

 

[DK207]

I just got my shipping notice. And partial refund for combining a stand with a razor and combining shipping. I'm cool with the wait, it is just a razor and I have lots of others to use until I get this one.

 

[merovirginian]

I have and remain forgiving of Karve. From what I have read, the reasons for the delay were all (mostly?) due to a problem with the quality of the product (passivation). Rather than ship out a product that was not up to its standards, Karve delayed shipment for orders without really communicating why for a couple weeks+. With that said, here is what I see as the complaints about the stainless steel release:

(1) Karve communicated it had parts in stock and ready to ship
(2) Karve took people's orders and charged them for the products
(3) At some point, after receiving people's money, Karve was not happy with the final product. #1 takes a blow with this news. #2 takes a blow because a company should not accept payment for something that is not, in fact, complete. This makes it sound more like a pre-order when it was not communicated as one.
(4) Everyone seems to agree that Karve's communications, to put it lightly, are terrible. There was never any reason given for why Karve did not communicate directly to people from whom it had taken money. Sure, Instagram. But, Karve knows everyone who paid and all those persons' emails.
(5) Building off of #4, Karve, unfortunately, has a history of poor communication about orders.

I am sympathetic to all of the above. What most bothers me most is #2. If you tell people that you have a finished product but then you don't, you have taken money you did not earn. That problem is compounded when you don't communicate honestly (or late or at all). I think a company has an obligation to communicate with a customer when it charges people for a product it claims is complete but that at some point it knows it does not have. Karve failed here imho.

What I see as defenses of these complaints are:
(A) Karve is a small operation
(B) The product itself is, or will be, great
(C) People's expectations are too high about fast delivery (perhaps communication?)
I don't tend to support C, but A & B resonate with me.

In life/business in general, people will forgive a lot if the resulting quality is great. Also in general, the people who will not forgive are those who (i) don't think the quality made up for slow speed (e.g. the diner who will not return to the restaurant), or (ii) people for whom speed of delivery was a high priority.

I love my Karve brass. I assume I will love the stainless steel. As for me, I know I value quality over speed. I want both, but if I can't have them, give me quality. In my work, I would rather be correct/thorough than done on time with a project. I personally want to deliver both. I cannot say that I do all the time. Perhaps that is why I am also forgiving here.

It's also true that people have choices. Some businesses provide quality and speed. I hope Karve can ultimately deliver both. Until then, Karve will likely be an artisan product. If Karve wants to be more than that, its business practices should change. But as I wrote before in Post #177, I always assumed Karve was more artisanal than commercial. More hobby than business, if you prefer. Thank you to everyone for sharing your opinions.

 

[MaineYooper]

Nicely written, @merovirginian.

Eric; M, Karve Diem, BOSC

 

[Yojimbo1968]

Nicely written, @merovirginian.

Eric; M, Karve Diem, BOSC

Agree.

 

[mozartman]

I have and remain forgiving of Karve. From what I have read, the reasons for the delay were all (mostly?) due to a problem with the quality of the product (passivation). Rather than ship out a product that was not up to its standards, Karve delayed shipment for orders without really communicating why for a couple weeks+. With that said, here is what I see as the complaints about the stainless steel release:

(1) Karve communicated it had parts in stock and ready to ship
(2) Karve took people's orders and charged them for the products
(3) At some point, after receiving people's money, Karve was not happy with the final product. #1 takes a blow with this news. #2 takes a blow because a company should not accept payment for something that is not, in fact, complete. This makes it sound more like a pre-order when it was not communicated as one.
(4) Everyone seems to agree that Karve's communications, to put it lightly, are terrible. There was never any reason given for why Karve did not communicate directly to people from whom it had taken money. Sure, Instagram. But, Karve knows everyone who paid and all those persons' emails.
(5) Building off of #4, Karve, unfortunately, has a history of poor communication about orders.

I am sympathetic to all of the above. What most bothers me most is #2. If you tell people that you have a finished product but then you don't, you have taken money you did not earn. That problem is compounded when you don't communicate honestly (or late or at all). I think a company has an obligation to communicate with a customer when it charges people for a product it claims is complete but that at some point it knows it does not have. Karve failed here imho.

What I see as defenses of these complaints are:
(A) Karve is a small operation
(B) The product itself is, or will be, great
(C) People's expectations are too high about fast delivery (perhaps communication?)
I don't tend to support C, but A & B resonate with me.

In life/business in general, people will forgive a lot if the resulting quality is great. Also in general, the people who will not forgive are those who (i) don't think the quality made up for slow speed (e.g. the diner who will not return to the restaurant), or (ii) people for whom speed of delivery was a high priority.

I love my Karve brass. I assume I will love the stainless steel. As for me, I know I value quality over speed. I want both, but if I can't have them, give me quality. In my work, I would rather be correct/thorough than done on time with a project. I personally want to deliver both. I cannot say that I do all the time. Perhaps that is why I am also forgiving here.

It's also true that people have choices. Some businesses provide quality and speed. I hope Karve can ultimately deliver both. Until then, Karve will likely be an artisan product. If Karve wants to be more than that, its business practices should change. But as I wrote before in Post #177, I always assumed Karve was more artisanal than commercial. More hobby than business, if you prefer. Thank you to everyone for sharing your opinions.

All very well said. But as to communication, I have found in this era of texting, e-mail, blogging, streaming, etc., it's so easy and quick to send a message to any number of people all over the world, that it's too easy to say something before you've taken the time to carefully and thoroughly consider exactly what you ought to be saying. I'm so old, I remember when you actually had to write or type a letter on paper, with a few blurry carbon copies at a maximum, put them in addressed envelopes, and give them to the mailman or bring it to the post office or a mail box. By the time you did all of that, you had plenty of time to consider your words carefully. I can't even make it through this silly post without mistakes and typos.

 

[Bakker1964]

On the plus side, and on the third attempt, I got my shipping notice today, as promised.

 

[HarryAU570]

Received an email from Chris, saying my Karve SS razor has been shipped today, may take at least three weeks for my parcel to arrive.

 

[MTG Jr]

Still waiting on my shipping notice. Tomorrow will mark three full weeks since I placed my order and paid for my razor.

I thought the initial production hiccup had been resolved and everything was full speed ahead. I can’t imagine why there are still confirmed orders that haven’t shipped. I’ve tried to be patient with this whole thing, but there are limits....

 

[Bakker1964]

Send Chris an IG comment about it. Did that over the weekend, and got my notice yesterday.

 

[MTG Jr]

Send Chris an IG comment about it. Did that over the weekend, and got my notice yesterday.

I would if I had an IG account. I’m considering canceling my order and picking up a Rex Ambassador. I already have the CB brass and am very happy with it. Not sure how much marginal utility I will realize from the exact same razor in a different metal, versus a whole new razor that I’ve really been wanting to try. I may give it another day, but I’m very tempted to pivot.

 

[ackvil]

If I were you guys I would cancel your order. This way those of us on the waitlist might get one sooner!

 

[MTG Jr]

If I were you guys I would cancel your order. This way those of us on the waitlist might get one sooner!

Yeah, that’s been said a few times. We get it. Order cancellations help the wait list move up. In a perverse way, those who were late to place their orders will end up benefiting from the customer service disaster.

 

[benos]

I won't get one, only because I own a brass 3" handle with a D plate, and it's just ridiculous how good that razor is, so I don't feel the need to get another in a different material.