Never buying a Thiers Issard again!

[Biltong & Boerewors]

Being fairly new I think I went through the normal process of buying what looks good at first, trying it, until you find what really suits you.
Having started about 8 months ago, the majority of my current collection of 14 razors are Solingen blades. Honing and stropping is a major part of the experience, and I am determined to master it. After a few trials and errors, the Solingen blades and also the two Gold Dollars I own shave beautifully.
The TI blades remains a challenge. After spending a lot of time and effort, the 7/8th's shaves fine, the 6/8th's shaves ok at best, and the 4/8th's just disappoints me every time, and I am ready to sell it to some unsuspecting newbie.
The problem is that I really want to like them, the workmanship and finishes are excellent, and everything I see and feel when I have them in my hands just feels right. But they don't shave as well as a cheap, poorly finished razor!
Is it just me, or are they just so much more difficult to get to the right degree of sharpness?

 

[Lightcs1776]

I have very little SR knowledge, so take this with a grain of salt. I am told the smallest razor that will give a good shave, at least without a lot of skill, is a 5/8. It may be that the 4/8 just isn't a good fit for you.

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[M14Shooter]

I would send the razor that does not shave well to doc226 .If he can not put a good edge on it no one can.TI razor are made with very hard steel and can be difficult to hone .If the razor is ground fairly well it can be made to shave well .Along as the steel still has a proper temper .
Regards Mike

 

[KW Driver]

They’ve had a reputation in the past of being wavy or wonky. If the blade is straight, you just have to hone against the harder steel. I’ve got a new Le Grelot that’s a C135 TI blank. It shaves fine, and as well as anything else I own. The good news with C135 is, when honed, it lasts. Doc226 ran a test with one of his and got 135 some odd shaves off his before the edge degraded enough for him to want to do a touch up. Send one of yours to him for a stellar Jnat edge to see if you like it. If you don’t like his edges on a TI, you’ll know if you don’t like a TI.

for sizes, I prefer 6-7/8 blades. I’ve got a few 8/8s, and a couple 4/8s. What I’ve found with smaller blades is paying attention to shaving angles is more important. It’s easier to get too steep with a small blade. Bigger blades will give a more comfortable shave with sloppier angles.

 

[EL Alamein]

A long time ago the wisdom on the various forums was that anything smaller than a 5/8 blade of any manufacturer was only made with the intention of shaving the back of the neck on a barber's customer.

That may have fallen by the wayside as we in the community experiment and learn. I can't say as I've never used a 4/8 blade.

I know for myself when I started shaving with a straight at the age of 12 or 13 I started with a 5/8 blade. After about 12 years I bought a 6/8 and was instantly impressed with how it shaved me. It really fit my face. A few years later I tried a 7/8 blade and didn't see any improvement so I've always stuck with the 6/8 reasoning that it was just right for me.

The OP's problem could stem from something like I've posted above or something else like a bad grind. The advice to send it out to a seasoned user and evaluate it after they have worked on it is sound to me.

Good luck and let us know how you fair.

Chris

 

[Alum of Potash]

I'm okay with 4/8s, just takes a little bit more nimbleness on the face, strop, and hone as needed. My coiffeur in France uses a half-hollow 3/8 (not 4/8) razor to cut my hair and shave the back of my neck, giving it a very brief stropping on an extremely slackened Solingen loom strop laden with the black paste in starting out. Can you post a pic of the razor in question in its present state?

 

[Biltong & Boerewors]

Thanks for the helpful comments guys.
I think you are probably right about the 4/8", its just not meant for a full shave, more for trimming.
Looks like the TI blade steel is much harder than Solingen blades, it took a lot of time and effort to get the 7/8" to shave well and I am still working on the 6/8". Hope it will be worth the effort and keep the edge for a long time!

 

[Seveneighth]

In my experience TIs only need a pasted strop to get them shave ready at first. The factory set bevel is good with refinement. The issue comes when you need to take the razor back to a hone for the first time. Then they are a little more advanced to maintain. I got into a little trouble at first and it was only when I mastered a rolling / torqued X stroke that the bevels and edges came up clean. Therefore I would strongly suggest sending them out to a recognised honemeister as others have said.

I have three and that was my experience at least. Mine all shave perfectly now and are some of my sweetest razors.

 

[Twelvefret]

Thanks for the helpful comments guys.
I think you are probably right about the 4/8", its just not meant for a full shave, more for trimming.
Looks like the TI blade steel is much harder than Solingen blades, it took a lot of time and effort to get the 7/8" to shave well and I am still working on the 6/8". Hope it will be worth the effort and keep the edge for a long time!

I've had a couple 4/8. One never shaved well. I had honed it twice and later sent it to a friend. The other, a full hollow, Lewis-Strenger Venus is one of my best and most sharp edges. So, the point is not to discount the 4/8 because of one poor experience.

My favorite is 5/8 and I have most sizes up to a 15/16 F. Herder.

 

[Lord Fatboy]

This is where I agree with the received wisdom: The cheaper TIs are not as good as the more expensive ones.

 

[RayClem]

For me, I find 6/8" and 7/8" blades to be the sweet spot. I have a few 5/8" vintage blades, but do not like using them as it is much harder to maintain the correct angle when shaving (at least for me). I cannot imagine using a 4/8" blade for shaving. They are more suitable for trimming hair.

As far as TI quality, there level of workmanship is not quite as good as I would expect based on the price. I prefer the workmanship on Ralf Aust and Heribert Wacker razors from Solingen. I do like the TI C135 Carbonsong steel. It is a very high carbon, very hard steel. You have to put some effort into honing a great edge on the blade, but the edge holds up quite well once you get there.

 

[Twelvefret]

Funny that folks struggle with angle from 1/16 of an inch or two.

 

[stone and strop]

Being fairly new I think I went through the normal process of buying what looks good at first, trying it, until you find what really suits you.
Having started about 8 months ago, the majority of my current collection of 14 razors are Solingen blades. Honing and stropping is a major part of the experience, and I am determined to master it. After a few trials and errors, the Solingen blades and also the two Gold Dollars I own shave beautifully.
The TI blades remains a challenge. After spending a lot of time and effort, the 7/8th's shaves fine, the 6/8th's shaves ok at best, and the 4/8th's just disappoints me every time, and I am ready to sell it to some unsuspecting newbie.
The problem is that I really want to like them, the workmanship and finishes are excellent, and everything I see and feel when I have them in my hands just feels right. But they don't shave as well as a cheap, poorly finished razor!
Is it just me, or are they just so much more difficult to get to the right degree of sharpness?

The 4/8 and smaller just don't feel the same as a larger razor even when honed well and used properly - to me.
They lack the mass which makes you feel the resistance when encountering whiskers that you normally won't feel. They require a little more forward force because they are so light.
Equate it to using a skewer drawn across a rough surface and using a 2x4 across the same surface.
They are great for reaching tight spots and for people with smaller faces it seems.
The majority fall in the 5/8 - 7/8 range.

 

[dundak]

Love TIs. I am used to their slight eccentricities and think the final product is worth it. YMMV


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[Biltong & Boerewors]

I'm okay with 4/8s, just takes a little bit more nimbleness on the face, strop, and hone as needed. My coiffeur in France uses a half-hollow 3/8 (not 4/8) razor to cut my hair and shave the back of my neck, giving it a very brief stropping on an extremely slackened Solingen loom strop laden with the black paste in starting out. Can you post a pic of the razor in question in its present state?

The offending Blade!

The 7/8th's shaves very nice after a lot of love and care, and the 6/8th's shaves ok, I have hope for it.

Difficult to take a clear pic that hasn't got a lot of reflections.

 

[6Cuda6]

I have in my collection blade sizes from 3/8 all the way through to 10/8 and not one of them shaves the same.

Send it over to Doc226, have him put an edge on it and practice using it.....5/8 and 6/8 are common because they also are very easy to use and just forgiving enough that you can use them quite confidently.....so get honed up and force yourself to concentrate on the shave till you get it right (frig i still have 2 kamisoris that i cant use worth a hoot and ive been using straights now for many many years).

 

[Gamma]

Plenty of people have shaved well with 4/8s. I'm one of them - I don't like them but if the edge is good then the shave will be good.

I've shaved with many Tis, inexpensive and expensive. They all shaved well and all shaved within the realm of each other. In other words, the cheaper blades did not shave 'cheaply'. The only one I kept was a 'cheapie' actually; one of the "Eagle" branded razors. It shaves like a dream.

TI steel, C135, can be difficult to hone. On top of that, sometimes, there is a weird beveling thing that goes on at TI. Overcoming that factory angle on their very hard steel can be laborious. I would prefer to handle that work on very hard stones like Choseras and Shapton Pros.

 

[Alum of Potash]

Thanks for the pics. From the first one, it does look like the 4/8 has seen a visit to the hones. I took out a Boeker 4/8 and shaved with it today. No problems removing around 72 hrs. of beard growth. I've never honed a Thiers-Issard, but Gamma's description above is reminiscent of my experience with a Jaguar razor. Other French razors have been easier, like a Grelot and a Chatellerault. Perhaps it's because they come from a different forge (Holtzer). I remember attending a Coupe-Chou Club reunion in 2011, where a friend, who deals in shaving goods and razor restoration and production, was gifted a new 6/8 T-I by the group. Not looking pleased with the razor's edge as received, he told me that the edges of Solingen razors are generally in better shape leaving the factory than their T-I counterparts; and for part of the afternoon, in downtime, he stropped the razor on a green-pasted loom strop that he had brought along. At the end, it was passing the HHT beautifully.

 

[Dick peck]

My latest ti took a couple of goes on the stones to get it right. I have a 6/8 and the new 5/8 . The 5/8 shaved very well

 

[Brutus]

Having started about 8 months ago....

....and the 4/8th's just disappoints me every time, and I am ready to sell it to some unsuspecting newbie.

Not only would that be blantantly unfair (and I notice you didn’t use a smiley to indicate that this was supposed to be a joke), to me it seems that the newbie is you and you have neither come to grips with smaller than ⅝ blades nor the different properties of Thiers Issard steels.

While 4/8 is small by today’s standards, I - like many others - get excellent shaves out of them and what these smaller blades lack in ability to take away large amounts of lather on the flatter parts of my face, they make up with their nimble maneuverability around the corners of my face.

Currently popular ⅞ and larger sizes used to be the exception and a typical vintage razor is closer to ⅝, even though my sweet spot seems to be around 6/8.

Thiers Issard steel is known to be very hard and it takes a while to get the hang of it when honing.
Once honed, they tend to keep their edge for a long time though.
Similar things have been said about stainless steel razors BTW.

So rather than find “some unsuspecting newbie”, let’s hope that this razors ends in the hands of someone who knows what he is doing and can handle the smaller size and harder steel.

Of course, the ideal outcome would be that you rise to the challenge and come to terms with size and material of this razor.



B