The naysayers have grown quiet and too many people have used gds for them to start a ruckus and get shouted down by the overwhelming amount of users , some who use them every day. Mod them, don't mod them, rescale them etc. It's a cheap way in and can be all you need. Although most guys do want to taste the finer and rarer razors out there.
Zy Vs Gold Dollar
- Thread starter Legion
- Start date
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
Resistance is futile
It is! Lol. I wonder what percentage of guys started with a GD? I would think it's a significant portion. And many of then would not have gotten in if they couldn't do so for cheap. And for practice honing? It's a home run. 10 practice razors for under $50? Can't beat it with a stick!
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I never mada a razor from scratch until I had modded probably a hundred GDs. I bet I have given away 20 of them on this board. I just bought a piece of 0-1 big enough to make 6 razors and it cost me a lot more than 6 GD66 razors, which could be honed and used for shaving pretty nearly as is.
Greetings gentlemen! This is my first B&B post here. I'd like to ask advice to beginner on this thread. Not meant to hijacking the topic.
A friend of mine introduced wet shave to me for avoiding irritation. Then I use double edge safety razor to shave beard for 2 years. Now I want to go for straight razor.
My friend is from Germany and I am from Hong Kong. He offered me great help on getting German vintage razor to start with. I know I need to practice shaving, stropping, and honing skill on straight razor. I don't want to ruin a very fine vintage razor with regret. So my friend told me that I can find a dirt cheap Chinese razor to practice honing. He suggested Gold Dollar 66 as it's really cheap and the steel can still be made nice edge with proper honing. Seems like a good stuff to start with for absolute beginner. I have zero knowledge on using a knife or straight razor. I've never hone my own kitchen knife.
After reading this thread and watching some YouTube video, ZY seems to be an even better start for beginner who doesn't know how to adjust or fix the geometry, spine and bevel. Here are my questions.
- Is ZY better to start with? Or I should go the harder way to get more sense about fixing and honing GD?
- With the benefit of geo-location, I can get any GD or ZY razors with wide range of selection. And also slightly cheaper on the high tier, really?, models. Is there any recommendation which ZY to have a better start with?
- GD and ZY, I know they are the same, both offer honed razors by 67yo SiFu. With just few Chinese Yuan more which doesn't worth to mention. Among factory honed or SiFu honed, which one should I get given that I still have to hone it myself?
Thank you so much and really appreciate to any advice!
These are the online shop which I can get the razor straight from the manufacturer:
ZY: 直剃刀-ZY SHAVING-淘宝网
GD: 剃刀-金元刀剪有限公司-淘宝网
They just maintain different online stores. Only a little variety of choices among them.
A friend of mine introduced wet shave to me for avoiding irritation. Then I use double edge safety razor to shave beard for 2 years. Now I want to go for straight razor.
My friend is from Germany and I am from Hong Kong. He offered me great help on getting German vintage razor to start with. I know I need to practice shaving, stropping, and honing skill on straight razor. I don't want to ruin a very fine vintage razor with regret. So my friend told me that I can find a dirt cheap Chinese razor to practice honing. He suggested Gold Dollar 66 as it's really cheap and the steel can still be made nice edge with proper honing. Seems like a good stuff to start with for absolute beginner. I have zero knowledge on using a knife or straight razor. I've never hone my own kitchen knife.
After reading this thread and watching some YouTube video, ZY seems to be an even better start for beginner who doesn't know how to adjust or fix the geometry, spine and bevel. Here are my questions.
- Is ZY better to start with? Or I should go the harder way to get more sense about fixing and honing GD?
- With the benefit of geo-location, I can get any GD or ZY razors with wide range of selection. And also slightly cheaper on the high tier, really?, models. Is there any recommendation which ZY to have a better start with?
- GD and ZY, I know they are the same, both offer honed razors by 67yo SiFu. With just few Chinese Yuan more which doesn't worth to mention. Among factory honed or SiFu honed, which one should I get given that I still have to hone it myself?
Thank you so much and really appreciate to any advice!
These are the online shop which I can get the razor straight from the manufacturer:
ZY: 直剃刀-ZY SHAVING-淘宝网
GD: 剃刀-金元刀剪有限公司-淘宝网
They just maintain different online stores. Only a little variety of choices among them.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
A good vintage will be easier to hone. Between the ZY and a GD, it is a tossup. The bevel angle on both razors is very wide. Notice how thick the spine is in relation to the blade width on the Chinese razors, vs your German razor. That doesn't mean it won't shave, only that it will behave differently. I prefer a much more acute bevel angle. There are a few new GD models that are much thinner and shave a little better IMHO than the older models. They are also more skillfully ground, better finish, and will hone much easier due to the lack of a big obtrusive stabilizer. So for a Chinese razor I would suggest one of the new "W" model Gold Dollars. If that is out of your price range, then a regular GD. The ZY razors are better finished than the basic GD razors, but the spines are even thicker. However the ZY should lay flatter on the hone and be easier to make sharp. The basic GD razors are very cheap but they can be a bit tricky for the beginner to hone. You will very likely prefer the shave of the GD though. And the new "W" Gold Dollars, even better.
A GD66 is a very good razor to modify. I remove the heel, thin the tang and spine, thin the blade and push the hollowgrind higher up into the spine, reprofile the nose, finish to a mirror polish, add some nice scales, and end up with a very nice razor indeed. This is actually helped by the very crude grinding in the factory. These razors are left very heavy, with a lot of excess steel, which I am only too happy to remove and reveal the fine razor waiting inside for me. There are others who do this, too, and you can do it as well. Search for the Gold Dollar Modification Competition threads. We have a competition every year, and we even have a novice division where Newbies can compete among one another.
Feel free to start your own thread, if you are concerned about hijacking. Be sure the title describes your question or problem, and that you post in the correct forum, and you will get replies.
<edit> I see that shop has the Gold Monkey 777 razor, as well. It is made in the same factory, same steel, same price, but is slightly easier to hone than a GD66.
A GD66 is a very good razor to modify. I remove the heel, thin the tang and spine, thin the blade and push the hollowgrind higher up into the spine, reprofile the nose, finish to a mirror polish, add some nice scales, and end up with a very nice razor indeed. This is actually helped by the very crude grinding in the factory. These razors are left very heavy, with a lot of excess steel, which I am only too happy to remove and reveal the fine razor waiting inside for me. There are others who do this, too, and you can do it as well. Search for the Gold Dollar Modification Competition threads. We have a competition every year, and we even have a novice division where Newbies can compete among one another.
Feel free to start your own thread, if you are concerned about hijacking. Be sure the title describes your question or problem, and that you post in the correct forum, and you will get replies.
<edit> I see that shop has the Gold Monkey 777 razor, as well. It is made in the same factory, same steel, same price, but is slightly easier to hone than a GD66.
I think a zy is better than a GD. The GD has a heavy shoulder and heel as well as the stabilizer. Zys come with an edge on from very good to lousy. They require very little to get them shave ready. Vintages in good condition are fine. Don't fuss over the maker it.makes little to no difference imo.
Bought 3 ZYs, tossed 2 - no edge retention, wear resistance was pointless. The 3rd is still here and seemingly the steel is better than what the other two were made of. But - but the steel in a GD seems to be better so I may use the ZY for something eventually but it's not worth honing. Not to me anyway. The work on the blade made it more attractive in a sense but the spine is still stupid thick and the grind is whacked too.
In time, I'll may pick up one of these - I am not in a rush to experience more frustration though.
In time, I'll may pick up one of these - I am not in a rush to experience more frustration though.
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
I think the main thing to remember with all of these razors is that they are not designed, nor made, by straight shavers or in fact by anyone at all who knows anything at all about straight razors, other than what they superficially ought to look like. The only reason GD is still around is that the steel is good AND the price is crazy cheap. If there are ZY's making it through QC that have poor steel, or poorly heat treated steel, then the brand won't be around very long.
It's funny how the chinese seem to use thick stock and make sort of normal height razors which is a screw up and the Pakistani razors always seem to have stupidly thin stock and are quite large which is another screw up. At least the chinese temper the steel.
What I've found after all this time is the edge put on any razor is much more important than the steel or the grind. Take a GD or zy and any other razor. Finish them both on the same honing media. Forget the shave test. Do an hht test and see what you find. The shave test can be duped as most of us want our nicer razors to shave better than a 4-5 dollar razor. No argument here on wanting a nicer tool to.shave with. But utility wise I find there to be no difference. I've seen a lot.of gds and zys. I don't find there to be any issues honing or shaving them. Now gds and zys have a larger bevel. Which means usually more time on the stones. Polishing a larger area takes longer than a smaller one. Great argument for Japanese westerns or Filis among others which their.tiny bevels. And I agree about that. But for the extra minute or.so it takes? It's always about what people like and prefer now. So I won't tell anyone to dump their fancy razors. Lol.
I use old wedges so I can't really rip on bevel height, though you would think it should be small on a fresh hollow ground razor with no warps
Any honing guide for absolutely beginner? Describing the method on measuring bevel angle. How to determine bevel angle to use and correct the bevel to the right degree. How to tape the spine to start honing the right bevel.
It would be great if that is a reading with diagram rather than video. Thank you very much!
It would be great if that is a reading with diagram rather than video. Thank you very much!
Slash McCoy
I freehand dog rockets
To measure bevel angle, first set the bevel. Notice you have created a bevel not only at the edge, but also on the spine. Select a point on the upper edge of the spine bevel and measure the distance to the shaving edge. This distance is H, the hypotenuse of a right triangle which you will solve for the acute angle. Next measure the thickness of the spine at the same point and divide by 2. This is O, the Opposite side of the triangle. Divide O/H to get S, the sine of the acute angle of the triangle. Find Inv Sine which is the acute angle. Multiply by 2 to get bevel angle of the blade.
Tape is seldom needed with hollow ground razors. And even though there is a sweet spot for bevel angle, usually between 16 and 17 degrees, a couple degrees difference isn't really such a big deal. To actually change the bevel angle is not something for a beginner to try. It just isn't usually necessary enough to be worth the risk to the razor. Unless it is a GD and you are deliberately modifying the razor.
Tape is seldom needed with hollow ground razors. And even though there is a sweet spot for bevel angle, usually between 16 and 17 degrees, a couple degrees difference isn't really such a big deal. To actually change the bevel angle is not something for a beginner to try. It just isn't usually necessary enough to be worth the risk to the razor. Unless it is a GD and you are deliberately modifying the razor.
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indeed, and that weird camphor strop dressing actually works really well.
A few of my chinese razors.
Gold dollars and a ZY.
When honed they make great shavers.
Most of the scales suck but who cares.
the 66 scales are the worst.
The wooden scale actually is very nice with an alu wedge.
The white one is stainless.The ZY too I believe.
The 66 's are rough.But shave as well as the others.
It's all about the hone.
Gold dollars and a ZY.
When honed they make great shavers.
Most of the scales suck but who cares.
the 66 scales are the worst.
The wooden scale actually is very nice with an alu wedge.
The white one is stainless.The ZY too I believe.
The 66 's are rough.But shave as well as the others.
It's all about the hone.
I honed 2 ZY razors for a customer. There was a significant difference in the effort required to hone both. The newer model felt like carbon steel and shaved well. The other was much harder, either stainless or harder temper and did not shave well. Both had respectable grinds and better than the GD’s I have seen.
I would not consider one for my rotation and would rather look for a vintage of similar price.
I would not consider one for my rotation and would rather look for a vintage of similar price.
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