Zenith Silvertip | My First | You Have One?

[never-stop-learning]

Noticed that the eBay seller who has Zenith brushes is listing many of their Manchurian brushes as "Two Band".

Is that an additional designation or are all Manchurian brushes two band?

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

@Chan Eil Whiskers

I see your point, but..
If Manchurian was another species of badger, may be, but just may be, we 'd have Manchurian pure, Manchurian best, Manchurian Silvertip as well.

And I guess the price is justified by the treatment vs the raw material of the other hairs.

The price is market driven and influenced by cost accounting.

Zenith and some other knots are made in the manufacturer's factory (at least that's what they say). Some knots are hand made or hand tied in the manufacturer's factory (at least they say that and why lie about it?).

Many brushes we buy have knots made in China. Look at Alibaba to find out what the wholesale prices are on these knots. How can they make nice knots so cheaply? Good question, but the knots are sold wholesale at very low prices compared to what we pay for brushes.

I'm not knocking the vendors here. Anyone who has engaged in a small business understands how many overhead expenses there are and how small the profit margin is. The wholesale cost of things is only one component of what it costs businesses such as West Coast Shaving to operate.

Is my copper handled Zenith Manchurian four or five times as good as a Yaqi two band? Maybe not, but I'd rather have it than four or five Yaqi two bands. Having said that, I'm very aware the gain in all appreciable objective qualities goes up a curve lower than the price curve as we go from a lower priced budget brush to a very expensive Simpson or similar brush.

Whether the Manchurians are chemically treated two band or from badgers which live in a remote mountainous cold region, harvested in a snowy winter on an odd numbered year - well, all that is interesting to me, but I don't know where the hair comes from nor do I know if and how it is treated.

Manchurian is popular, sought after, readily available, and, in my opinion based only on two Zenith Manchurians, it can make a very nice knot. Is it worth the price to you or anyone else? That's not up to me. It's offered at a price; I have to justify what I decide to purchase with my pennies.

Maybe there's only Black Badger and all the others are chemically treated derivatives of it. If so, so what? We like the others better and are willing to pay more for them.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[Chan Eil Whiskers]

Noticed that the eBay seller who has Zenith brushes is listing many of their Manchurian brushes as "Two Band".

Is that an additional designation or are all Manchurian brushes two band?

I've seen that for a long time. I think, but do not know, all Manchurian could be more properly called Manchurian two band.

Looking around on the Alibaba Oumo knot pages I can find all sorts of knots with names I don't understand at all. Whether there's any rational system I have no idea.

In other words, I'm just guessing. Maybe the vendors and manufacturers are doing the same.

Jìngyi, "What shall we call this new knot?"

Shufen, "I have an idea. Silvertip is very popular. Manchurian is very popular. Gel tips are all the rage. Let's call this one the Manchurian Silvertip Gel Hook Delight."

Qiuyue, "Hey, good idea, but I'm the boss. We're naming it the Silvertip-Manchurian Finest Gel Hook Mountain Knot."

Who knows? Not me.

Happy shaves,

Jim

 

[never-stop-learning]

I've seen that for a long time. I think, but do not know, all Manchurian could be more properly called Manchurian two band.

Looking around on the Alibaba Oumo knot pages I can find all sorts of knots with names I don't understand at all. Whether there's any rational system I have no idea.

In other words, I'm just guessing. Maybe the vendors and manufacturers are doing the same.



Who knows? Not me.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Thank you, Jim.

Only one sure way to find out.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Just based on my interaction with salespeople in China trying to sell to Westerners for the past 25 years or so... they will literally put any words in the description they think will make something sell. If the phrase "Taco Tuesday" Sold shaving brush knots, we'd all be speculating what it was that made badgers fed tacos on Tuesday hair so special. They treat english descriptions of merchandise the way Japanese treat T-shirt slogans. It might as well be gibberish, but it does the job.

"Manchurian" knots are suddenly everywhere because a bunch of western brush makers asked the Chinese badger hair/knot vendors if they had "Manchurian". The Vendors probably asked them what they meant by "Manchurian", got told it was super-soft two band, went to the factories and told them to make softer two band knots, then added "Manchurian" knots to their catalog.

 

[back_to_shaving]

I've heard that, too, but don't know if it's accurate. Not saying it's inaccurate. Just saying I believe it's more of a rumor than a certainty.

I believe it's certainly a certainty sometimes, but I'm not certain I'm right in my belief.

Main thing is we certainly know that the very most expensive brushes in the product lines of some brush makers (examples: Simpson and Zenith) carry their Manchurian knots. We also know there's no uniformity or consistency in naming knots as you go from brush maker to brush maker.

For that matter there's not necessarily consistency from brush to brush. My Stirling finest may be different from you Stirling finest. Simpson? Same issue. Etc. All brush makers are dependent on supply of raw ingredients whether they're using knots from China or batches of hair from wherever.

Are there any actual badger hairs or boar bristles which don't originate in China?

You pay your money and you take your chances.

Happy shaves,

Jim

Is the shaving brush a Chinese invention? Are all badger/boar hair really coming from China?

 

[Dave-the-rave]

Just based on my interaction with salespeople in China trying to sell to Westerners for the past 25 years or so... they will literally put any words in the description they think will make something sell. If the phrase "Taco Tuesday" Sold shaving brush knots, we'd all be speculating what it was that made badgers fed tacos on Tuesday hair so special. They treat english descriptions of merchandise the way Japanese treat T-shirt slogans. It might as well be gibberish, but it does the job.

"Manchurian" knots are suddenly everywhere because a bunch of western brush makers asked the Chinese badger hair/knot vendors if they had "Manchurian". The Vendors probably asked them what they meant by "Manchurian", got told it was super-soft two band, went to the factories and told them to make softer two band knots, then added "Manchurian" knots to their catalog.

Dude do they have them T shirts in large???

 

[SliceOfLife]

Is the shaving brush a Chinese invention? Are all badger/boar hair really coming from China?

Badger hair I believe is. Plisson still sells "European" badger in quotes... but my impression is they switched to Chinese hair and found a hair that they feels replicates what their old "European" grade was like. I may be mistaken, but I've skimmed their site and if they were the only people using actual European hair, I suspect they'd advertise that. I've heard it's a protected species and some people have claimed that they have or had a special exception... but I've never seen any proof of that claim. Consequently, yes, I think all badger hair used to make shaving brushes today is from China.


Boar hair? Any country can supply boar hair... and most that raise pigs probably do.


Who invented the shaving brush? Good question. I'm gonna say maybe one of the artsy greek city states?


Wikipedia says it is China... "The invention of the paintbrush is generally attributed to Meng Tian, a general in the Qin Dynasty"

Shaving brushes are just modified paintbrushes. Wikipedia credits the French with the first shaving specific brush.

 

[bigbrucefan]

View attachment 1077758

I do not find this brush too big at all. I'm a face latherer and use knots a lot larger.

To each his own.

Happy shaves,

Jim

yours actually looks like a two-band.
love my zenith brushes. big fan of the 506 handle.

 

[back_to_shaving]

Badger hair I believe is. Plisson still sells "European" badger in quotes... but my impression is they switched to Chinese hair and found a hair that they feels replicates what their old "European" grade was like. I may be mistaken, but I've skimmed their site and if they were the only people using actual European hair, I suspect they'd advertise that. I've heard it's a protected species and some people have claimed that they have or had a special exception... but I've never seen any proof of that claim. Consequently, yes, I think all badger hair used to make shaving brushes today is from China.


Boar hair? Any country can supply boar hair... and most that raise pigs probably do.


Who invented the shaving brush? Good question. I'm gonna say maybe one of the artsy greek city states?


Wikipedia says it is China... "The invention of the paintbrush is generally attributed to Meng Tian, a general in the Qin Dynasty"

Shaving brushes are just modified paintbrushes. Wikipedia credits the French with the first shaving specific brush.

That's interesting. Given we have cave paintings dating to the Paleolithic it's surprising paint brushes are such a recent invention. It has to be older imo.

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