No, not the ones I've got.
Zenith, A Horse of a Different Color!
- Thread starter Chan Eil Whiskers
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Horse hair is perfect...... for shining shoes.
That explains why it's so good on my face
Joking of course. I haven’t tried one so I can’t really shouldn’t comment. Boars were a pleasant surprise so maybe I should get my shoe shine brush out tomorrow and use it to lather up my Tabac. Don’t knock it if you haven’t tried it!That explains why it's so good on my face
- Thread starter
- #65
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
This morning I examined my brush very carefully in the morning daylight supplemented by a strong lamp. It was interesting; of course I was looking for split ends.
There certainly are not many split ends, but it looks like there are some. However, that look is deceiving. As individual hairs, when I thought I saw split ends, were explored, what appeared to be spit ends turned out to be two hairs closely placed such that their ends diverged showing what appeared to be a split end but turned out to be two hairs.
I was unable to find a single split end!
Now, to be fair, I have only the one horsehair brush, the brush I first mentioned in the OP. I like it very much but can't say it's been used a huge number of times as I have a good many brushes I like very much. It's possible it will develop split ends over time. It's not changed since my OP; in all respects it's a very different knot from any of my others.
I'm very happy with the knot as it is and see no reason to try to achieve split ends. If that's even possible, it's not something I feel the need for hurrying along.
Happy shaves,
Jim
So this indicates the guys doing the boar soaked in the fridge break in process are falling for a placebo effect? I notice boar hairs split. When I first got the zenith manchurians they had some scritch to them for about a half dozen uses before they broke in and that went away, but I also know badger doesn’t split ends like boar. I have to assume that horse will break in more along the lines of a badger, but likely over a greater duration.
- Thread starter
- #67
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
Well, I don't know. I can't say horse knots don't or can't or never develop split ends or otherwise break in over time. I'm only able to observe and report on what I see and experience.
I have two Zenith Manchurians.
The one on the left in the photo was given to me by its second owner; I know both guys who owned it before me loved the brush. The first owner wanted something smaller and the second owner became a synthetics devotee. I got the brush well broken in. It's a wonderful brush in all respects.
My copper handled Zenith Manchurian was a brush guys warned me about. I was instructed to be aware it would have the backbone of a jackhammer; what an understatement that was. Talk about a stiff brush. The initial scrub was over the top. I was told to be careful with it and I was. Good thing, as otherwise it might have removed the dermis.
Over time the copper Manchurian has maintained a very impressive backbone and a wonderful scrub, but it has definitely become far more delicious in its scrub and markedly softer in its tips.
Of all my badgers this Zenith Manchurian is the most convincing example of a badger which has broken in. There's simply no doubt about it.
The copper handled Zenith Manchurian is my favorite brush. I have other contenders but none have knocked it off. If the bad scritch of the 26mm Maggard 70/30 goes away and the knot's other properties don't go away with the bad scritch it will definitely be a strong contender, but I'm not sure that will ever happen.
Happy shaves,
Jim
I just read this whole thread trying to answer the one question I had when I started, and couldn't find an answer, but this is the right thread to ask ...
Does anyone have the Zenith 50/50 horse and the Extra Soft that Jim loves so much and can compare them.
I have a couple of Vie-Long 35/65 brushes (24x50mm) that I really like. I want to get a Zenith that'll feel a bit fuller and not as stout, which would logically point me to the 50/50, but Jim's descriptions of the Extra Soft are bang on what I'm looking for.
Yes, I over think everything - I'm an engineer ;-)
- Thread starter
- #69
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
That's a good question. Maybe start another thread just for that?
Engineers are the worst
I should know as I am the same, but now drive trucks after abusing my body out in all weathers now my joints hurt.The 50/50 Zenith horsehair is fantastic Yes I do have that brush
And love it But I also have the Vie-Long 24mm Brown Horse Hair knot, that I removed the knot to put into my Rubberset 400. So both of those brushes I love also being set at 50mm what more can you wish for see below.
So as you can see I must like them to turn a Rubberset 400/4 into a horse so I have the best of all worlds in the Rubberset 400. Please note I do not swirl or mash my brushes these love paintbrush strokes and get a quick comb and a wash after use.
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OK, now we're talking. You could probably answer my original question with a simple comment. Since I do have two similar Vie-Longs, how does the Zenith 50/50 compare?
If they're close, then my decision is made - I'll get the Extra Soft because the goal for me is variety, not redundancy.
They are very close but I will add the Zenith is like the SHD in badgers, but in a Horsehair and they will never leave my rotation. And I will never understand why they are frowned upon I think its time more tried them.
Seeing as I identify as a horse, I cannot use horsehair brushes.
Well, today was a good day in regards to mail calls. My extra soft horsey arrived.
I’ve been the proud owner of this specimen for all of 30 minutes give or take 5.. let me give you first impressions of this brush. I smelled knot first thing after opening the box. Nothing notable, nothing barnyardish... so I went and pressed some soap into a captains choice lather bowl, got the knot wet and set out to clean/test lather the brush. This brush whipped up lather with no difficulty, not that that was up for debate or even a concern. Then after about 10 min, I rinsed The lather out of the knot and shook it out. I went in for another whiff expecting My wife would have to pick me up off the ground... and what did I experience? A smell far less offensive and substantially more tolerable than nearly any badger knot I’ve broken in. There was too much of an animal smell at all.
So I proceeded to wet the knot and get back to the lather bowl.I hadn’t noticed and offensive brown color change to the lather, nor in the rinse water. So I swirled and pumped and painted and mashed this thing with no regard for convential wisdom pertaining to horse hair knots. I then removed the brush and squeezed the lather from the base of the knot, and extracted the slightest bit of brownish lather. I rinsed my hand and the brush, reps eating the process 5 more times. Only seeing brown lather again on the second time around.
Finally after a thorough and harsh initiation ritual, I rinsed the brush out well, and stripped it over a towel. Took another whiff, still nothing too offensive. The knot appears to have bloomed modestly. There are no visible tangles after all the admitted abuse it has endured. Nonetheless I took my comb to the semi damp knot and found not unusual resistance to combing through the bristles. I would honestly say that my manchurian knots have more of a resistance if running a comb through them. So I have to say, this far this brush doesn’t seem to have a tangling issue at all.
Thee last few observations left are goin for have to wait until I have a real shave with it and do a face lather. I cannot yet speak to how this brush feels in relation to scritch and scrub, or if it is “floppy”. I feel confident in saying it doesn’t eat lather like other animal brushes are known to do. I also haven’t fully observed and assessed water retention. I will say that this extra soft when damp reminds me of my synthetic noir plissoft knot in my razorock 400, but with more backbone. I don’t anticipate much scrub, but I do expect there to be far less scritch than I think I was expecting.
A final impression not related to the knot, this olive wood handle was not thrilling to me when I bought the brush, but seeing it and handling it in person, I really love the aesthetics and feel.
I’ve been the proud owner of this specimen for all of 30 minutes give or take 5.. let me give you first impressions of this brush. I smelled knot first thing after opening the box. Nothing notable, nothing barnyardish... so I went and pressed some soap into a captains choice lather bowl, got the knot wet and set out to clean/test lather the brush. This brush whipped up lather with no difficulty, not that that was up for debate or even a concern. Then after about 10 min, I rinsed The lather out of the knot and shook it out. I went in for another whiff expecting My wife would have to pick me up off the ground... and what did I experience? A smell far less offensive and substantially more tolerable than nearly any badger knot I’ve broken in. There was too much of an animal smell at all.
So I proceeded to wet the knot and get back to the lather bowl.I hadn’t noticed and offensive brown color change to the lather, nor in the rinse water. So I swirled and pumped and painted and mashed this thing with no regard for convential wisdom pertaining to horse hair knots. I then removed the brush and squeezed the lather from the base of the knot, and extracted the slightest bit of brownish lather. I rinsed my hand and the brush, reps eating the process 5 more times. Only seeing brown lather again on the second time around.
Finally after a thorough and harsh initiation ritual, I rinsed the brush out well, and stripped it over a towel. Took another whiff, still nothing too offensive. The knot appears to have bloomed modestly. There are no visible tangles after all the admitted abuse it has endured. Nonetheless I took my comb to the semi damp knot and found not unusual resistance to combing through the bristles. I would honestly say that my manchurian knots have more of a resistance if running a comb through them. So I have to say, this far this brush doesn’t seem to have a tangling issue at all.
Thee last few observations left are goin for have to wait until I have a real shave with it and do a face lather. I cannot yet speak to how this brush feels in relation to scritch and scrub, or if it is “floppy”. I feel confident in saying it doesn’t eat lather like other animal brushes are known to do. I also haven’t fully observed and assessed water retention. I will say that this extra soft when damp reminds me of my synthetic noir plissoft knot in my razorock 400, but with more backbone. I don’t anticipate much scrub, but I do expect there to be far less scritch than I think I was expecting.
A final impression not related to the knot, this olive wood handle was not thrilling to me when I bought the brush, but seeing it and handling it in person, I really love the aesthetics and feel.
That looks so good, love the wood it's one I'm going to have to buy that's for sure. and thanks for the fantastic review on this brush.
- Thread starter
- #77
Chan Eil Whiskers
Fumbling about.
If you can would you measure the loft on that beauty for me?
Thanks and happy shaves,
Jim
In hands? It is a horse after all.
I haven’t measured with an instrument but it is the same loft as the B03-A26 which is advertised as 57mm.
Update on the Zenith extra soft.
lathered it up as part of the cleaning and break in process in two different, but strongly scented soaps. I find the best way to kill the animal scent of any new brush is to find two strong scented soaps on way different ends of the spectrum. I used A&E peach and cognac then their chasing the dragon soap. This brush has absolutely no funk to it all.
before setting it out to dry, I observed the knot, much to my surprise there were some split ends, but I think this more so the result of the way the hair was cut/harvested from the equine donor. I also had to use some tweezers to pull out some hay or grass, there were two very small/thin strands in the mix of it all. I then towel dried the knot a bit more and hung it to dry. This sucker seems to dry almost as quick as a synthetic.
Yesterday I had my first shave with it, using a new SV Cosmo soap that arrived with the brush. I was pleased to see the brush lathered off the puck with ease. The knot was shaken outwith one firm thrust after its soak then went straight to the puck.The brush seems to hold its water well but I would say is likely most similar to a boar brush prepped and used in the same way.
I moved to face lathering,finding the brush performed excellently building the lather in swirling splayed motions. The face feel was pleasant. There was a very nice soft scrub and zero scritch when used in this way. I swirled the brush both clockwise and counter with no tangles and no change in scrub sensation. As I typically do, I switched to a painting motion to spread my lather around. Only when making first contact with my face in a painting motion can I detect a very minimal amount of scritch. But I would honestly say someone who is not into scritch from their brushes would be hard pressed to really find this objectionable. As the rest of the follow through from the painting pass continues it is a sensation damned near on par with the softness of a silvertip. I will say that I preferred this horse to my silvertips in this exact Manner of use. The horse seems more efficient while equally as comfortable, where as I find my silvertips to behave more like a mop.
I had an excellent lather, enough for 3 passes easily. This not does not eat/hog lather as far as I can tell. The brush rinsed and cleaned easily as well.In this respect I really have to say this brush has the shortest gap to bridge between animal hair and synthetic brushes.
I had a second shave today using another SV soap in a different base, with the same excellent lather results. Nothing new was observed that would need to be shared about this brushes performance for a face shave.
The Mrs. took this brush for a spin to shave her legs and commented that she feltthe slightest bit of scritch from the brush regardless of how it was being used. She likes the scritch of a pure badger, and I think she would have liked morefrom the horse. I wet the inside of my forearm and tried it there and the brush had a different feel than it did on my face. There was some scritch but very pleasant.
after 3 real world uses, I examined the knot to look for any tangles, split ends, broken hairs or shedding. Outside of a few hairs that were compromised in the manufacturing/assembly process, the brush is not shedding and not breaking hairs. The ends do not seem to be splitting, and they are not twisting, knotting or tangling in the least.
I bought this brush out of curiosity with no particular expectations. But, I will say this is a welcomed addition to BSH brush collection. It will get regular use. I would recommend this others, most specifically someone who is wanting something softer but doesn’t want to spend silvertip money at the $50 and up price point.
what has surprised me most about the brush is how much I find myself comparing it to synthetics more than boar or badger.
lathered it up as part of the cleaning and break in process in two different, but strongly scented soaps. I find the best way to kill the animal scent of any new brush is to find two strong scented soaps on way different ends of the spectrum. I used A&E peach and cognac then their chasing the dragon soap. This brush has absolutely no funk to it all.
before setting it out to dry, I observed the knot, much to my surprise there were some split ends, but I think this more so the result of the way the hair was cut/harvested from the equine donor. I also had to use some tweezers to pull out some hay or grass, there were two very small/thin strands in the mix of it all. I then towel dried the knot a bit more and hung it to dry. This sucker seems to dry almost as quick as a synthetic.
Yesterday I had my first shave with it, using a new SV Cosmo soap that arrived with the brush. I was pleased to see the brush lathered off the puck with ease. The knot was shaken outwith one firm thrust after its soak then went straight to the puck.The brush seems to hold its water well but I would say is likely most similar to a boar brush prepped and used in the same way.
I moved to face lathering,finding the brush performed excellently building the lather in swirling splayed motions. The face feel was pleasant. There was a very nice soft scrub and zero scritch when used in this way. I swirled the brush both clockwise and counter with no tangles and no change in scrub sensation. As I typically do, I switched to a painting motion to spread my lather around. Only when making first contact with my face in a painting motion can I detect a very minimal amount of scritch. But I would honestly say someone who is not into scritch from their brushes would be hard pressed to really find this objectionable. As the rest of the follow through from the painting pass continues it is a sensation damned near on par with the softness of a silvertip. I will say that I preferred this horse to my silvertips in this exact Manner of use. The horse seems more efficient while equally as comfortable, where as I find my silvertips to behave more like a mop.
I had an excellent lather, enough for 3 passes easily. This not does not eat/hog lather as far as I can tell. The brush rinsed and cleaned easily as well.In this respect I really have to say this brush has the shortest gap to bridge between animal hair and synthetic brushes.
I had a second shave today using another SV soap in a different base, with the same excellent lather results. Nothing new was observed that would need to be shared about this brushes performance for a face shave.
The Mrs. took this brush for a spin to shave her legs and commented that she feltthe slightest bit of scritch from the brush regardless of how it was being used. She likes the scritch of a pure badger, and I think she would have liked morefrom the horse. I wet the inside of my forearm and tried it there and the brush had a different feel than it did on my face. There was some scritch but very pleasant.
after 3 real world uses, I examined the knot to look for any tangles, split ends, broken hairs or shedding. Outside of a few hairs that were compromised in the manufacturing/assembly process, the brush is not shedding and not breaking hairs. The ends do not seem to be splitting, and they are not twisting, knotting or tangling in the least.
I bought this brush out of curiosity with no particular expectations. But, I will say this is a welcomed addition to BSH brush collection. It will get regular use. I would recommend this others, most specifically someone who is wanting something softer but doesn’t want to spend silvertip money at the $50 and up price point.
what has surprised me most about the brush is how much I find myself comparing it to synthetics more than boar or badger.
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