How did you reach that conclusion?
Why I will never order from PAA again.
- Thread starter SavageMatty
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- #42
I’m very curious as well.
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- #43
I’m convinced its either Doug or somebody that doeant read anything before posting. I’m leaning towards Doug, personally.
I will preface this by saying I’m not a fan of PAA. I don’t like their marketing style and the owner seems very sketchy to me. His fake marketing persona really rubs me the wrong way.
That said, @macintoshBRhas been a member of this forum for a very long time. To my knowledge he has provided a lot of valuable commentary—and has had very little to say on PAA previously. I don’t think it’s fair to cast aspersions on his character.
That said, @macintoshBRhas been a member of this forum for a very long time. To my knowledge he has provided a lot of valuable commentary—and has had very little to say on PAA previously. I don’t think it’s fair to cast aspersions on his character.
It's Doug.
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- #46
With all due respect, he casted aspersions on all of our character in this post.
No experience with the soaps but always had good service from Doug and Frances. Had a QC issue with a razor and replacement immediately sent out.
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel 4a using Tapatalk
PAA pushes a lot of product and could have taken back the soap no problem but they chose not to. According to the OP, PAA blamed the problem on menthol and still didn't fix it, this is a problem if you ask me. It's a very weird thing to get upset about. Then to take the side of the business and corporation over the consumer is a little odd to say the least. Corporatism is a thing I guess I just don't see too many people taking the sides of businesses when they do or something wrong. Not to mention his underhanded insults. It's all definitely a little suspicious and a weird stance to take, but whatever. As consumers we have no other choice but to spread information if a business chooses to ignore us.
I agree there, I think he has an honest difference of opinion on the subject. I used to be a member of the B&B team as a Steward, which I guess are Ambassadors now, and we were always looking for shill accounts. They are usually pretty obvious and I don't see him as being a shill. I disagree with his assessment, but he does bring the other side of the story. My experience with PAA products is that they have been easy to lather so if this product isn't lathering easily it's likely a dud soap, and those happen. Vendors usually replace them after a quick inspection to verify the customer's claim.
B&B has always been a place where members could post honest opinions and experiences both positive and negative.
It's very difficult to make choices with so many choices out there.
Having positive posts and negative posts helps everyone zero in on what they want to buy, who they want to do business with and why.
All manufacturers have product problems from time to time, what they do about problems often speak more about the company than anything else.
10 "attaboy"s are wiped out by 1 "aww crap".
Dog piles, both positive and negative usually wind up creating hard feelings between members and seldom end well.
Replies directed at members who choose to share their experience rather than posts of a confirmation or rebuttal type don't either.
Let's be good to each other.
Report improper or suspicious posts and let those Blue Badge guys with the tools and resources sort it out.
It's very difficult to make choices with so many choices out there.
Having positive posts and negative posts helps everyone zero in on what they want to buy, who they want to do business with and why.
All manufacturers have product problems from time to time, what they do about problems often speak more about the company than anything else.
10 "attaboy"s are wiped out by 1 "aww crap".
Dog piles, both positive and negative usually wind up creating hard feelings between members and seldom end well.
Replies directed at members who choose to share their experience rather than posts of a confirmation or rebuttal type don't either.
Let's be good to each other.
Report improper or suspicious posts and let those Blue Badge guys with the tools and resources sort it out.
PAA is a very easy soap for me to lather. I'm sorry to had an issue.
Fayiz D.
Fayiz D.
A soap vendor will not refund used soap. It can't be resold.
I should expect a vendor to replace a soap that was not made to their own specifications, assuming that that's what happened. It appears from reading everything posted in this thread that Doug believes that the soap that was sent is not out of spec, and this is how all batches of this soap will perform. So the buyer should either adjust his lathering technique to get some use out of it, or get rid of it. And if he wants to give it a negative review on a public forum, then so be it, because enough of those ought to encourage PAA to develop a better formula. But that doesn't mean the buyer can ask for a refund for a product that was made in the way the seller intended. As mentioned above, that happens to all of us sometimes. I've thrown out soap that I hated. We all do. It's a learning experience.
I don't think I'd call PAA "corporate". This isn't Gillette. I'd much rather not white knight for either one, but I'd be mighty surprised if PAA is so profitable that Doug is lighting cigars with $100 bills, so throwing away $50 in revenue for whatever future profit the customer might generate may or may not make sense for him. I'm not going to read his mind to figure out if he thinks that was a good idea or not.
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- #53
Never asked for a refund, Nor did I ask for anything really. A simple swap would have been nice.
However, had there been any description stating the consistency is different (trust me its very very different in the worst way possible), I would’ve been more okay with the way the situation was handled.
I rest my case at that. I will kick rocks and take my business elsewhere. His business, his loss.
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@SavageMatty ... I'm so sorry to hear about this. I'm a big fan of PAA's products and have never experienced this, but ... Just seems to me they could have thrown you a free soap to make up for it.
Peace, comrade. Shave on!
Peace, comrade. Shave on!
Interesting thread. From the standpoint of a vendor I thought it may be helpful to share some incidents.
The starting point for me is that there are times that things happen. We do all that is possible to nullify issues since they can hurt not only profits but reputation as well. Others here have alluded to reputation issues with PAA, for instance. My view is that in spite of it or perhaps because of it PAA seems to have grown and that is good for the industry to have variety. It is also good for the industry to have information available so consumers can be well informed as they make purchases. Being aware of what PAA has done in the past and the experience of more recent customer interactions is part of that.
As to things happening, in large part as a manufacturer we simply accept it at face value. It is reasonable for us to ask for pictures to verify. Then we simply absorb the loss and reship the item at our expense and cover the postage, of course. I will add that this is very rare, so issues with orders are not a big deal money-wise. Here are two recent examples.
First, a retailer of ours wrote to say a customer received his shaving cream but it sat out in the mailbox all day in the heat. It also did not have a foam liner inside the lid to prevent product from shifting during shipment. He opened it up and it was hot and messy - the customer had a bad experience. The retailer told me he was not sure what to do. I told him to send me the fellow's address and then shipped a replacement to him directly with a written note and free sample to boot. The customer had provided my retailer with pictures and indeed, there was no liner in the lid. Frankly the heat will not affect lathering ability and no foam liner? Well, not a big deal really. Wipe the cream back down into the tub - we have all done that. But am I really going to make my retailer and me look bad? No way. It was an opportunity to make my retailer and I look good.
Secondly, we had a customer send us a picture of a lather bowl he had received that was broken. I also asked him to send me pictures of the exterior of the shipping box which he did. Our lather bowls are placed into their own fitted box and surrounded by shredded packing material. Then the lather bowl in the fitted box is put into the shipping box - so one box inside another. In eleven years we had never had one broken but this guy's did. Or did it? It did break and I am convinced he dropped it when it arrived. Why? The pictures he sent of the exterior of the shipping box reveal it was in pristine condition. No bumps, dents, nothing. It simply is not possible for it to have arrived in that box and be broken. But he said it was, so what to do? Decisions, decisions... I emailed him apologizing for the inconvenience and told him a free replacement was on the way.
So, manufacturers are people too and run their businesses as they wish. In large part, I have found that other vendors I have spent time with (ATT, Wolf Whiskers Shaving Brushes, Timeless Razors come to mind) have businesses that are a reflection of who they are personally. Those are some stand up guys that err on the side of the customer being right. There is a cost to this view and such is life.
I hope that helps.
The starting point for me is that there are times that things happen. We do all that is possible to nullify issues since they can hurt not only profits but reputation as well. Others here have alluded to reputation issues with PAA, for instance. My view is that in spite of it or perhaps because of it PAA seems to have grown and that is good for the industry to have variety. It is also good for the industry to have information available so consumers can be well informed as they make purchases. Being aware of what PAA has done in the past and the experience of more recent customer interactions is part of that.
As to things happening, in large part as a manufacturer we simply accept it at face value. It is reasonable for us to ask for pictures to verify. Then we simply absorb the loss and reship the item at our expense and cover the postage, of course. I will add that this is very rare, so issues with orders are not a big deal money-wise. Here are two recent examples.
First, a retailer of ours wrote to say a customer received his shaving cream but it sat out in the mailbox all day in the heat. It also did not have a foam liner inside the lid to prevent product from shifting during shipment. He opened it up and it was hot and messy - the customer had a bad experience. The retailer told me he was not sure what to do. I told him to send me the fellow's address and then shipped a replacement to him directly with a written note and free sample to boot. The customer had provided my retailer with pictures and indeed, there was no liner in the lid. Frankly the heat will not affect lathering ability and no foam liner? Well, not a big deal really. Wipe the cream back down into the tub - we have all done that. But am I really going to make my retailer and me look bad? No way. It was an opportunity to make my retailer and I look good.
Secondly, we had a customer send us a picture of a lather bowl he had received that was broken. I also asked him to send me pictures of the exterior of the shipping box which he did. Our lather bowls are placed into their own fitted box and surrounded by shredded packing material. Then the lather bowl in the fitted box is put into the shipping box - so one box inside another. In eleven years we had never had one broken but this guy's did. Or did it? It did break and I am convinced he dropped it when it arrived. Why? The pictures he sent of the exterior of the shipping box reveal it was in pristine condition. No bumps, dents, nothing. It simply is not possible for it to have arrived in that box and be broken. But he said it was, so what to do? Decisions, decisions... I emailed him apologizing for the inconvenience and told him a free replacement was on the way.
So, manufacturers are people too and run their businesses as they wish. In large part, I have found that other vendors I have spent time with (ATT, Wolf Whiskers Shaving Brushes, Timeless Razors come to mind) have businesses that are a reflection of who they are personally. Those are some stand up guys that err on the side of the customer being right. There is a cost to this view and such is life.
I hope that helps.
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- #56
Just a shout out. I love your products! I recently used up my samples that came with my shave bowl. Expect a purchase from me in the near future!
Edit: the bowl I had purchased is absolutely gorgeous. It even dethroned my geoegetown pottery scuttle (atleast until winter
)
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Well, yeah, that's why so many of us rely on reviews. Someone who is either getting the product for free or is willing to suck up the loss if he reviews it is a valuable resource.
- Thread starter
- #58
Exactly. Kensurfs on YT reviewed both products and did not have that issue. Thats a good point and something I DID look into before making my purchase.
I would like to make a last comment on customer service, as well. I've been in sales and customer service throughout my career. All of the companies I have worked for have erred on the side of the customer being right even if we couldn't verify all the facts. Low cost and no-brainer issues were always resolved on the spot with little fanfare and happy customers. If there was an issue with replacing something, we always explained the situation to the customer as best we could. I've always appreciated respectful and understanding customers and I try to exercise a similar approach as a consumer. If some aspect of a complaint or return is one me, I try to say so and ask the vendor if some compromise is possible. In these sorts of cases, I'm more than willing to have a company say, "Thank you for the explanation, but our policy is blah, blah." The communication alone is helpful. One of the worst kinds of customer service that I know is no response at all.
In regards to this thread, I'm aware of PAA's past, and like some other B&B members, I'm not into Erik's alter ego or some of the ways that he goes about his business. But I enjoy his soaps and I've never had a problem with the company. That said, I think this issue should have been a no-brainer and could have been resolved easily with some kind of replacement or a refund.
Overall, I'm grateful that B&B members are willing to share what's not working for them because I have occasional problems too and I'm not always willing to say so.
In regards to this thread, I'm aware of PAA's past, and like some other B&B members, I'm not into Erik's alter ego or some of the ways that he goes about his business. But I enjoy his soaps and I've never had a problem with the company. That said, I think this issue should have been a no-brainer and could have been resolved easily with some kind of replacement or a refund.
Overall, I'm grateful that B&B members are willing to share what's not working for them because I have occasional problems too and I'm not always willing to say so.
And a good point it is. Thanks for posting and warning others about one of the worst companies out there.
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