Which soaps got better once tallow was removed?

[PLANofMAN]

Given the recent reformulation of Mitchell's Wool Fat and Tabac to non-tallow bases, I'm curious to know if there's any soaps out there that were actually an improvement over the original tallow base formula?

For me, the second reformulation after the tallow version of the Lea shave stick was an improvement over the first reformulation, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure it was an improvement over the tallow version. Are there others?

 

[Jan Sobieski]

No.

 

[Brutus]

We now have so many excellent shaving soaps to choose from, our ancestors would envy us.

As long as the non-tallow shaving soap is no worse than the old one, I am content.
Being an optimist, I work on this presumption but I do admit that a few times I was let down.

If it is worse, I may have to move on.
If it should be better, that would be a bonus.


B.

 

[Marco]

Haslinger, Sir.

 

[luvmysuper]

Haslinger, Sir.

I don't know that it's better, but it's certainly one of the rare cases where it is just as good!

 

[Norman Gunston]

Given the recent reformulation of Mitchell's Wool Fat and Tabac to non-tallow bases, I'm curious to know if there's any soaps out there that were actually an improvement over the original tallow base formula?

For me, the second reformulation after the tallow version of the Lea shave stick was an improvement over the first reformulation, if I remember correctly. I'm not sure it was an improvement over the tallow version. Are there others?

Please tell me that MWF has not been reformulated to a non-tallow base?

 

[PLANofMAN]

Please tell me that MWF has not been reformulated to a non-tallow base?

Unfortunately, this is the case. It is now a palm oil base. There is still old stock left at Maggard's, mensroombarbershop.com, and Amazon (US) as of this post.

Connought Shaving has switched to the new formula, as has Amazon (UK).

All sources of Kent (re-branded MWF) are still old formula, as of this post. They usually lag behind in batches.

Stock up while you can.

 

[Norman Gunston]

Unfortunately, this is the case. It is now a palm oil base. There is still old stock left at Maggard's, mensroombarbershop.com, and Amazon (US) as of this post.

Connought Shaving has switched to the new formula, as has Amazon (UK).

All sources of Kent (re-branded MWF) are still old formula, as of this post. They usually lag behind in batches.

Stock up while you can.

Cheers for the heads up, Mate.

 

[DEgeezer]

In one sense I've found that Cella green, is an improvement over Cella red. In my experience Cella red has had a tendency to diteriate in hot weather. This hasn't been the case with the green, and to me the shaves have been compatible.

 

[tube_guy]

In one sense I've found that Cella green, is an improvement over Cella red. In my experience Cella red has had a tendency to diteriate in hot weather. This hasn't been the case with the green, and to me the shaves have been compatible.

Unfortunately, the green is a lot more expensive because it's not available in the 1 kg blocks. The Cella Bio blocks are like Big Foot, the Loch Ness Monster, or recent sightings of Elvis. Lots of pictures out there but I've never seen one actually available anywhere.

 

[RayClem]

A non-tallow soap can be superb. A case in point is the older Grooming Dept Nai base that contained 55 different ingredient, but no tallow. It is no longer in production.

There are vegetable based formulas that focus on the use of stearic acid. Wholly Kaw has such as soap. I have not tried it because I love the Wholly Kaw Siero tallow base, but I suspect it is an excellent soap.

Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua, Glycerin, Potassium Ricinoleate, Sodium Ricinoleate, Potassium Mango Stearate, Sodium Mango Stearate, Potassium Shea Butterate, Sodium Shea Butterate, Garcinia Indica (Kokum) Butter, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Butter, Hydrolyzed Sodium Hyaluronate, Sodium Hyaluronate, Polyquaternium-10, Linoleic Acid, Linolenic Acid, Humulus Lupulus (Hops) Extract, Soybean Glycerides, Shea Butter Unsaponifiables, Phenoxyethanol, Ethylhexylglycerin, Fragrance

In contrast, when you see a soap formulation based on palmitic acid, palm oil, palm kernel oil and/or coconut oil, you can be fairly certain that these fats were used in order to reduce the production cost of the soap and maximize profitability for the manufacturer. These are the fats primarily used to produce inexpensive bars of bath soap. While they are suitable for bath soaps, they are not ideal for a shaving soap. The lather will be plenty slick, but it won't be very protective.

 

[Feldgrun]

I hear folks mention that Tabac got slicker after tallow was removed, but I haven't yet tried both next to each other. It's on my list of comparisons to do.

 

[PLANofMAN]

A non-tallow soap can be superb. A case in point is the older Grooming Dept Nai base that contained 55 different ingredient, but no tallow. It is no longer in production.

There are vegetable based formulas that focus on the use of stearic acid. Wholly Kaw has such as soap. I have not tried it because I love the Wholly Kaw Siero tallow base, but I suspect it is an excellent soap.

Potassium Stearate, Sodium Stearate, Aqua, Glycerin, Potassium Ricinoleate, Sodium Ricinoleate, Potassium Mango Stearate, Sodium Mango Stearate, Potassium Shea Butterate, Sodium Shea Butterate, Garcinia Indica (Kokum) Butter, Theobroma Cacao (Cocoa) Butter, Hydrolyzed Sodium Hyaluronate, Sodium Hyaluronate, Polyquaternium-10, Linoleic Acid, Linolenic Acid, Humulus Lupulus (Hops) Extract, Soybean Glycerides, Shea Butter Unsaponifiables, Phenoxyethanol, Ethylhexylglycerin, Fragrance

In contrast, when you see a soap formulation based on palmitic acid, palm oil, palm kernel oil and/or coconut oil, you can be fairly certain that these fats were used in order to reduce the production cost of the soap and maximize profitability for the manufacturer. These are the fats primarily used to produce inexpensive bars of bath soap. While they are suitable for bath soaps, they are not ideal for a shaving soap. The lather will be plenty slick, but it won't be very protective.

Saponifico Verisino is superb and vegan. That's not what this thread is about.

 

[mozartman]

A non-tallow soap can be superb. A case in point is the older Grooming Dept Nai base that contained 55 different ingredient, but no tallow. It is no longer in production.

There are vegetable based formulas that focus on the use of stearic acid. Wholly Kaw has such as soap.

I have seen you make this comment here before, or something very similar, and I am genuinely baffled. All of the vegan formula shaving soaps I have used, not some of them, but all of them, list either stearic acid or potassium stearate and sodium stearate, products of the saponification of stearic acid, as the first, or among the first, ingredients. Recently these have included Haslinger, Tabac, Proraso and Canada. All of these list stearic acid or its products as the first ingredients except Proraso, a soft "croap" for which the first ingredient is water and the second is stearic acid.

This isn't an accident. Whatever exceptions there may be, in general, Stearic Acid is the main thing that makes shaving soap shaving soap, whether vegan or tallow-based, and not bath soap. Not just Wholly Kaw. It is key to giving lather its thick creamy texture. As you say, bath soap, for which palm oil and coconut oil or their products are typically listed as the lead ingredients, will generally produce lather that is plenty slick, but not thick and creamy. That generally is considered desirable in a bath soap. For example, the lead ingredients of Tabac bath soap are sodium palmate and sodium cocoate, products of palm oil and coconut oil.

Wholly Kaw may be a fine shaving soap, but not because of any "focus" on stearic acid.

 

[RayClem]

Saponifico Verisino is superb and vegan. That's not what this thread is about.

I purchased a tub of Saponificio Varisino Beta 4.3 for evaluation. I rated the soap as 55/60 which is 92% and ranks it as a B-grade soap in my collection. That is not nearly good enough to earn it a place in my rotation. If you consider SV to be superb, your requirements are not nearly as stringent as mine.

My very best tallow soap rated 65/60 as it not only meets all my requirements by receives bonus points for ease of lathering, superb residual slickness, superb protective lather, and superb post shave conditioning. This soap is so good that I evaluated the soap by doing my ATG pass without relathering. I got a super close shave with zero irritation and my face felt wonderful for well more than 24 hours after the shave. No other soap I have used has ever come close to this level of performance.

 

[PLANofMAN]

...If you consider SV to be superb, your requirements are not nearly as stringent as mine...

Yeah, I don't do that OCD grading stuff. I either like it or don't like it. Scent plays a big part. MWF (tallow) is my go to 99% of the time. It probably scored lower than SV on your grading scale. I also consider that soap to be superb.

I also consider soaps and blades to be largely subjective for each person, rather than absolutes.

 

[RayClem]

One of the worst shave soaps I have ever evaluated lists the following ingredients:

sodium palmate†, sodium palm kernelate†, aqua (water), glycerin, fragrance (parfum)**, butyrospermum parkii (shea) butter*, olea europaea (olive) fruit oil*, sodium gluconate, allantoin, xanthan gum, aloe barbadensis (aloe) leaf juice*, cannabis sativa (hemp) seed oil*, vitis vinifera (grape) seed oil*.

There is some stearic acid in the formula due to the Shea butter, which is high in stearic acid. However, the primary fats are palm oil and palm kernel oil

The soap rated 38/60 on my evaluation scale. That earned it a rating of 63% which is a total fail. I used the soap for shaving a single time and then relegated the soap to use in the shower.

 

[Barbarian80]

Having tried non-tallow Tabac I'd have to say it's not as good. It's the only comparison I can make. I think the majority of Tabac users will agree that removing the tallow from the formula hurt its performance and certainly there will be some that disagree and that's fine.

I've had good shaves with palmolive stick- i dont believe it to be a great performing soap and in fact it's probably terrible compared to many soaps ive tried but I still enjoy it from time to time. Same with SV and MDC.
I'd survive just fine without tallow soaps. It's the rational behind changing the formulas for no real good reason is what irks me.

 

[RayClem]

Yeah, I don't do that OCD grading stuff. I either like it or don't like it. Scent plays a big part. MWF (tallow) is my go to 99% of the time. It probably scored lower than SV on your grading scale. I also consider that soap to be superb.

I also consider soaps and blades to be largely subjective for each person, rather than absolutes.

The thing I did not like about MWF tallow was that it is difficult to lather unless you use it frequently and the puck stays damp between uses. I have about 80 soaps in my rotation, so soaps dry out completely between uses. With the exception of the loading and lathering issues, I preferred MWF to SV by a slight margin, but SV was easier to load and lather.

MWF tallow and Tabac were the only traditional shaving soaps that I recommended, but now that both have been reformulated, I no longer recommend either.

I have a very tough beard and very sensitive skin. Thus, my requirements for shaving soaps are much higher than the average shaver. I have to be OCD about my shaving technique and evaluation of hardware and software products. Otherwise, I can get severe irritation during the shave.

 

[Barbarian80]

Yeah, I don't do that OCD grading stuff. I either like it or don't like it. Scent plays a big part. MWF (tallow) is my go to 99% of the time. It probably scored lower than SV on your grading scale. I also consider that soap to be superb.

I also consider soaps and blades to be largely subjective for each person, rather than absolutes.

Quite a few non tallow have amazing scents. I'm not sure if the lack of tallow is partly the reason for those soaps having such scent clarity. I get good enough shaves with those soaps and I use them because I like the scent not because of their performance. Tallow formula soaps are the king performers in my collection.