Water or Lather...

[joshmpdx]

I've run across a few posts with instructions to use lather as opposed to water on wet stones; it hasn't been until this evening that i'd ever tried honing with lather on the stone.

The first lather i made (with the hard valobra shave stick soap) was fairly dense and i was astonished at how smooth the trip was over the hones, it glided effortlessly and gave me better perception of how the work was moving along. As i progressed up the hones (from 1.2 on the DMT to the 5 & 10k Naniwa's) it also let me give the razor a lighter touch without more effort, it was a breeze to feel the progress.

I suppose the proof will be in tomorrows shave, however i'd love it if this made the process more forgiving.

Have you fella's experimented with water vs lather?

 

[Kees]

I am happy with water but many will be able to tell you that lather works great. The oils in the lather act as lubricants. Honing oil has the disadvantage of leaving a film of oil, successive films tend to clog up the pores of you hone. That's why lather is preferable if you feel you need more lubrication than water alone gives you.

 

[taffy]

I only do this with my barbers hone, did not know you can do it on all hones.

 

[Seraphim]

I don't think there is anything particular about lather. I use dishwashing soap in my water(alot cheaper than using your good shave soaps). As mentioned, it greatly improves the glide. Another benefit is that the water doesn't evaporate as quickly.

 

[azmark]

I've tried lather and water and didn't notice any difference in performance results but only in performance during honing with the lather with gliding.

But I plan to try Seraphims dish soap method.

 

[Seraphim]

I've tried lather and water and didn't notice any difference in performance results but only in performance during honing with the lather with gliding.

But I plan to try Seraphims dish soap method.

Yes, I don't see any real better honing performance either, but it does help with water retention during honing, and glide, as you say.

 

[Chimensch]

I use a drop of liquid soap in the water. It breaks the water tension so the water covers the hone more evenly and the razor feels like it's making better contact with the hone. Also its easier to see the water flowing over the razor, which is a clear sign that you're making good contact with the hone. If the water doesn't flow over the razor all the way across, it may be warped.

 

[BladeRunner001]

I am happy with water but many will be able to tell you that lather works great. The oils in the lather act as lubricants. Honing oil has the disadvantage of leaving a film of oil, successive films tend to clog up the pores of you hone. That's why lather is preferable if you feel you need more lubrication than water alone gives you.

+1

I had heard this too and many swear by the performance they get out of lathered up honing method. But, like Kees, I worry about the oil/hone mix...there's a reason they call it waterhone. But then again, I am not sure if any kind of oil is considered "harmful" to the hone or just certain kinds.

Cheers,
Robert

 

[Seraphim]

There is no oil in soap, is there?

 

[bradyarz]

There is no oil in soap, is there?

 

[BladeRunner001]

There is no oil in soap, is there?

Well...depends on how one defines "oil". There's the water soluble, biologically relevant ones like fats or fatty acids, which cremes and soaps do have a lot of. But, if you are thinking about "oil" as in "mineral oil"-like or anything along those lines, then no. But some products do carry mineral oil etc in them.

I am by no means an expert in honing or hones, but I would worry (albeit slightly) about using even water soluble fatty acids (in lather) on hones. In hard water, these things will form Ca/Mg precipitates that may diminish the effectiveness of hones...Like brushes, they will need to be cleaned out or used with distilled or soft water.

 

[honed]

On the barber hone I still use lather.

Lather seems to suck the blade in more & give an easier glide.
That was useful when I started out honing, it was easier to do a good x-strokes.
Nowadays my muscles do the work without me having to think, so I abandoned lather on the other hones.

But in the heydays of barbershops a lot of fellas seems to have used lather, so it might just be something to it!

 

[Chimensch]

Well...depends on how one defines "oil". There's the water soluble, biologically relevant ones like fats or fatty acids, which cremes and soaps do have a lot of. But, if you are thinking about "oil" as in "mineral oil"-like or anything along those lines, then no. But some products do carry mineral oil etc in them.

I am by no means an expert in honing or hones, but I would worry (albeit slightly) about using even water soluble fatty acids (in lather) on hones. In hard water, these things will form Ca/Mg precipitates that may diminish the effectiveness of hones...Like brushes, they will need to be cleaned out or used with distilled or soft water.

On the barber hone I still use lather.

Lather seems to suck the blade in more & give an easier glide.
That was useful when I started out honing, it was easier to do a good x-strokes.
Nowadays my muscles do the work without me having to think, so I abandoned lather on the other hones.

But in the heydays of barbershops a lot of fellas seems to have used lather, so it might just be something to it!

A drop of liquid soap in the water works better than lather because you can see how the water is moving over the razor.

 

[Ru4scuba?]

I use a drop of liquid soap in the water. It breaks the water tension so the water covers the hone more evenly and the razor feels like it's making better contact with the hone. Also its easier to see the water flowing over the razor, which is a clear sign that you're making good contact with the hone. If the water doesn't flow over the razor all the way across, it may be warped.

Can't speak to using oil on my barbers but I've tried the method described above (thanks Chimensch!) and it works great....very easily shows the flow over the blade...

 

[professorchaos]

On DMTs I'll sometimes use a drop of dish soap. There was a time I'd convinced myself it facilitated honing; not so sure now.

 

[joshmpdx]

I certainly spoke too soon!

Just because the razor was gently moving along the stones, the feedback was so different i wound up with two NOT shave ready blades.

I don't think the process was a waste of time, as i think lather might be a good option after water and the stone have done the majority of the work.

and of course, im looking forward to trying the dish soap method; thanks fella's!

 

[Seraphim]

Lather on the hone acts much like lather on your face, it adds some cushion, which may reduce the effective cutting power. This could be good in certain circumstances and negative in other. When I use dish soap, it is simply added to the water and swirled around. Not agitated into a froth. In that manner it provides lubrication but not much cushion.


Sounds like a good application for Williams!

 

[SliceOfLife]

I am happy with water but many will be able to tell you that lather works great. The oils in the lather act as lubricants. Honing oil has the disadvantage of leaving a film of oil, successive films tend to clog up the pores of you hone. That's why lather is preferable if you feel you need more lubrication than water alone gives you.

It depends on the stone. Stones whose primary abrasion is from pores (like Arkansas) are used as oilstones because the oil prevents the pores from clogging with metal filings. Stones designated as whetstones generally are advised against using with oil because oil has a tendency to harden and reduce cutting speed of stones that abrade as whetstones do. If anyone is interested, there are a few good vintage books on this I dug up back when I was just getting into stones, some are available on google eBooks and a quick search for some honing terms should turn them up.

I haven't tried lather on my stones. I use a synthetic honing oil on my oilstones that wipes off clean, and the only stones I've seen recommend lather are synth barber stones that I never really use.

 

[honed]

A drop of liquid soap in the water works better than lather because you can see how the water is moving over the razor.

Yes, it's time for me to try that. Have read about it before, but now it's time.

 

[Seraphim]

A drop of liquid soap in the water works better than lather because you can see how the water is moving over the razor.

Good point! The "bow wave" is a nice indicator of edge contact with the hone.