Watch Help!

[Mark1966]

I currently have a Seiko dress watch (gold trim, leather strap) which I wear as my everyday watch. It is getting to the point where I don't want to wear it everyday anymore and keep it as a dress watch with something a little more casual as my daily wearing watch. Mind you the daily one will be worn at business meetings, meetings with politicians etc and needs to look good with a suit.

I think I want:

• 100m water resistance - I want to be able to wear this all the time if I want to and not have to worry about it getting wet including swimming if I feal like it.
• automatic - by that I mean no battery and no winding
• luminous markers - I want to be able to easily read in no or low light situations
• accurate but not super accurate - I'm not going to be bother by a couple of seconds a day - within a minute or two a month
• simple face - I don't like cluttered faces
• not too big - I tried one on with a 43mm case diameter (inc crown) and that was big enough
• not too 'deep' - I want to be able to read the watch with a quick glance that others don't notice during meetings from all sort of strange angles. A face surrounded by a big bezel makes this hard.

I confess to not knowing much about watches so could be flexible on these issues. I don't like rubber bands and when I've had metal in the past cleaning them was a nuisance, I'm also not a 'chunky' jewellery guy. I like the look of the 'NATO' bands and may swap out to one of these post purchase.

Last night I went into a local jewller and the closest they could point me to was this, although their retail price, on sale, was $320. It kinda worked although I'd change bands.

Looking online it seems every shop has a different range! A couple that seem of interest:
Seiko Men's Automatic Stainless Steel with Army Green Dial SNKK57K1 - OK, but nothing special and only 30m
Citizen Men's BM8475-00X Eco-Drive Military Black Plated Steel Canvas Strap Watch
Seiko Kinetic SKA489P
Seiko Kinetic SKA505P
Seiko Kinetic 463P
Seiko Automatic Diver 200m Japan SKX011J6-Nato Watch - very left field!
Seiko 5 Military Automatic Sports SNZG09J1
Seiko Automatic SNZE11J1 - possibly my favourite
Seiko 5 Men's SNK809

So lots of Seikos because I know them and have always worn them. I was trying to reduce the overwhelming number of options and that is the path I chose!

These retail in Australia for around $400 - $500 yet online they seem to be less than $200 - which makes them much more affordable and I've kinda set as my limit. So my questions:

• Is it safe to buy watches online?
• Any traps apart from fakes which I probably wouldn't be able to pick?
• Are warranties a hassle?
• Good etailers? Ones to stay away from?
• Suggestions of other watches to look at?

Thanks in advance!

 

[doug1066]

Look at Wenger Swiss quartz watches. Or Orient Automatics

 

[Mark1966]

Look at Wenger Swiss quartz watches. Or Orient Automatics

Thanks mate. Any thoughts on etailers?

 

[Luc]

I bought my Seiko 5 off eBay as I couldn't find a decent price locally... It's a pretty good watch. I normally wear a fossil but the Seiko took the every day spot... I love the leather band that I had for the Fossil but the metal band from Seiko is much better (cleaner and less wear over time). I adjusted it myself, took 3 minutes to get the size right with a minimum of tools.

 

[Mark1966]

@ Luc - yes local watches prices are incredible!

Not sure about eBay though for watches.....

 

[doug1066]

Both Wenger and Orient ought to be available in Canberra but for etailers there is Long Island watch here in the US for Orient or Orientwatchusa. Not sure about the Wengers. I own a field watch by them with a NATO strap and a Terragraph on a brown leather band. I am not sure what you can find in OZ.

 

[Legion]

@ Luc - yes local watches prices are incredible!

Not sure about eBay though for watches.....

Fidjit and I both bought our Seikos from the same HK dealer on ebay. He had a good rep on the watch forums and we were both happy with the service (VERY fast shipping. Ian got his to Tassie quicker than if he bought it from the mainland). I'm drawing a blank as to the sellers name at the moment, but I'll PM you if I remember. If not, ask Ian, he'll know.

 

[Legion]

BTW, I have the SKX011J (on a Maratec strap) and it's been great. You have to "own" it, if you want to sport a chunky orange watch, but I like them for casual wear.

 

[Luc]

@ Luc - yes local watches prices are incredible!

Not sure about eBay though for watches.....

I wasn't too sure either but I searched the watch and seller for a little while... Watch was well rated and seller didn't pop anywhere... His feedback was great so I went for it...


Automatic Seiko 5 SNKK71K1.

 

[CptBlueBear]

Mark,

your questions first:

Warranty: Depends on whether the watch comes with a local or international warranty. In practice you won't be sending it to the manufacturer for work anyway, you'll use someone local that doesn't take a month in shipping alone and you can yell at if you need to.

Stores: I've bought several Orients and a couple of Seikos from Skywatches in Singapore.

Don't sweat the water restance - anything modern and Japanese will survive a dunking. Leaving it on the window sill while you have a hot shower is another matter unless it has a screw down crown. What I'm saying is: if you want to get it wet buy a watch that's meant to, don't rely on the "water resistant" claims.

When you look at the lume, bear in mind that there are two kinds: one is intended to be visible when you move from bright environment to a dark one, it is bright and short lived, the other is duller but lasts longer. Don't get all excited about the one that glows like a torch in the store 'cause it probably won't at 3AM. Also, the amount of light you'll get out is heavily dependent on the surface area. On a dive watch its acceptable to paint half the face with lume, not so much so on a dress watch.

Your desired accuracy probably means no self winding mechanicals. Seiko quote something like -/+15 seconds per day for the 7s36. The Swiss chronometre standard (COSC standard) is only -4/+5 seconds (something the 7S36 in those Seiko 5s you were looking at can easily achieve with a little work)

You can only get away with wearing a dive watch with a suit if you are an ex-navy combat diver or James Bond (and even then I reckon only Connery could pull it off). Everyone else just looks like a dick. Rubber or NATO straps, doubly so.

Seiko 5s are a lot of watch for the money. That SNZG09J1 (above) is very nice. It reminds me of a Hamilton Khaki. For work wear I'd swap the nylon strap for leather. Seriously can't go wrong.

Seiko SKA4x kinetics seem to be $130 to $250 out of Singapore. A mate got a two-tone gold and steel one that is a really nice looking watch.

If you can stretch your budget to an extra $50, get both and wear them as appropriate

 

[Mark1966]

Mark,

your questions first:

Warranty: Depends on whether the watch comes with a local or international warranty. In practice you won't be sending it to the manufacturer for work anyway, you'll use someone local that doesn't take a month in shipping alone and you can yell at if you need to.

Good thinking! There is a good watch repairer in Canberra that gets very positive comments around the place

Stores: I've bought several Orients and a couple of Seikos from Skywatches in Singapore.

Thanks - they look pretty good

[/QUOTE]Don't sweat the water restance - anything modern and Japanese will survive a dunking. Leaving it on the window sill while you have a hot shower is another matter unless it has a screw down crown. What I'm saying is: if you want to get it wet buy a watch that's meant to, don't rely on the "water resistant" claims.[/QUOTE]

Not sure what you mean by this - I'm dumb I confess - I want to be able to swim, get it wet around the house etc but realistically I'm likely to take it off before going to bed and not put it on until after I shower. I figured that 100m water resistance + would be the 'proper' water resistant andd those below that would be a bit dubious. Not the case? 30m would be OK?

When you look at the lume, bear in mind that there are two kinds: one is intended to be visible when you move from bright environment to a dark one, it is bright and short lived, the other is duller but lasts longer. Don't get all excited about the one that glows like a torch in the store 'cause it probably won't at 3AM. Also, the amount of light you'll get out is heavily dependent on the surface area. On a dive watch its acceptable to paint half the face with lume, not so much so on a dress watch.

Note expecting to use it often but it would be nice to be read for a longer time after being in bright light so I'm after the 'duller but last longer' type - how do I determine which is which?

Your desired accuracy probably means no self winding mechanicals. Seiko quote something like -/+15 seconds per day for the 7s36. The Swiss chronometre standard (COSC standard) is only -4/+5 seconds (something the 7S36 in those Seiko 5s you were looking at can easily achieve with a little work)

OK, now you have lost me. The accuracy thing was just a guess, I'm not that time sensitive in anything I do (despite the children complaining if I'm 1 min late or early in picking them up from somewhere) and have the usual range of devices around the house all probably a minute or two different. Would the Seiko 5s be OK for that or would then need 'a little work' and what do you mean by that.

You can only get away with wearing a dive watch with a suit if you are an ex-navy combat diver or James Bond (and even then I reckon only Connery could pull it off). Everyone else just looks like a dick. Rubber or NATO straps, doubly so.

LOL - point very well made! I don't really want a dive watch and the first one you pictured is very much along the lines I'm after but I have a watch with a leather strap that I'm trying to move away from and I'm not sure I really like the metal bracelets and rubber doesn't do it for me I think - so the NATO straps became the other thought.

Seiko 5s are a lot of watch for the money. That SNZG09J1 (above) is very nice. It reminds me of a Hamilton Khaki. For work wear I'd swap the nylon strap for leather. Seriously can't go wrong.

Good to hear

Seiko SKA4x kinetics seem to be $130 to $250 out of Singapore. A mate got a two-tone gold and steel one that is a really nice looking watch.

If you can stretch your budget to an extra $50, get both and wear them as appropriate

The budget can always be stretched can't it? It might have to stretch to getting a first watch for my 10 year old son too. He wants one for Christmas.

Thanks for the help - sorry for the dumb questions!

 

[CptBlueBear]

Sorry to confuse you, Mark

Not sure what you mean by this - I'm dumb I confess - I want to be able to swim, get it wet around the house etc but realistically I'm likely to take it off before going to bed and not put it on until after I shower. I figured that 100m water resistance + would be the 'proper' water resistant andd those below that would be a bit dubious. Not the case? 30m would be OK?

Water resistance (note the wording: nobody says waterproof anymore, a fact that can be used to date certain Seiko models) in watches is a bit of difficult subject. Just about any watch case is good for about 3 atmospheres (about 30m in layman's) with the crown seated. That's deeper than any sane person dives without specialist equipment. But it's not the static water pressure you are (or rather should be) concerned about. You can generate a lot more than that by slapping your open palm on the water because fluids are incompressible. That's how the brakes in your car work (assuming you don't drive an early VW with cable operated drums...). So, it's shocks and sudden compression that are the real issue.

Now, it's easy to seal the face, caseback and even pushers watertight, but the moment you have a rotating shaft it gets nasty. And that's what the crown is in every analogue watch. Real dive watches have some mechanism to apply pressure to seal the opening. Most follow the Blancpaine / Rolex screw-down-crown method, a few use the Panarai method of a locking cam mechanism. The very fact that these mechanisms exist tells you about the problem.

You can assume any new watch is good for that 3 atmospheres, and Seiko claim 100m (about 10 atm) for what you are looking at, with the crown seated. But what happens when the o-rings get old and hard or the case back seal has been broken is another matter. Unless the watch has been pressure tested recently you have no real idea what it's good for. This is one reason Rolex servicing costs so much - they pressure test every watch before return (or at least they used to!)

Steam is another problem because it's a gas. I will find it's way into a watch sitting on the window sill and when taken into a cooler environment it will condense and become trapped inside the case. Ironically, you are probably better off wearing it in the shower...

All of which is a very long winded way to say: don't worry about a casual dunking like pulling the plug from the sink with the wrong hand, falling in the pool, etc. But unless it's an actual dive watch with some form of crown seal, I wouldn't be swimming with it. At least not a vigorous overarm, breast stroke should be fine

Note expecting to use it often but it would be nice to be read for a longer time after being in bright light so I'm after the 'duller but last longer' type - how do I determine which is which?

Rough guide: if it's bright enough to give the indicators a greenish-white appearance in daylight, it's the wrong sort. Seiko is famous use the right sort

OK, now you have lost me. The accuracy thing was just a guess, I'm not that time sensitive in anything I do (despite the children complaining if I'm 1 min late or early in picking them up from somewhere) and have the usual range of devices around the house all probably a minute or two different. Would the Seiko 5s be OK for that or would then need 'a little work' and what do you mean by that.

Again, I'm trying to explain a simple concept and making a hash of it. The +x/-y seconds is what the watch deviates from the actual time by (isochronism? It's late and I had a few tonight). The movement manufacturer will quote a tolerance for the accuracy of the watch. This will usually seem insanely big. If it performs within that tolerance, they consider it functional. You (or your watchmaker) can trim the speed of the watch using with an adjuster. This is known as regulating. The COSC chronometer standard is something that is applied to some Swiss watches and certifies that the movement runs within much narrower tolerances. It's much thought of amongst Swissophiles and much derided by everyone else.

By the standards of quartz, mechanicals are not terribly accurate. A cheap quartz should be accurate to single digit seconds per year, while a really good mechanical might be a few seconds per day. I figure as long as I'm within 10 minutes per week I can live with it - outside that and it's off to the watch doctor.

The major factor affecting accuracy is temperature, but 7S38s and their predecessors are notorious for running slow in in certain orientations (I can't remember which, I think it slower when crown down...). In practice this doesn't much matter because it's losses and gains will hopefully even out over the day.

LOL - point very well made! I don't really want a dive watch and the first one you pictured is very much along the lines I'm after but I have a watch with a leather strap that I'm trying to move away from and I'm not sure I really like the metal bracelets and rubber doesn't do it for me I think - so the NATO straps became the other thought.

The first one pictured should be along the lines you are after, it's the one you listed as your favourite!

NATOs have their place - I wear them pretty much through summer, but they are way too utilitarian for even business casual to my eye. A plain leather strap would make that first Seiko more than acceptable anywhere.

The budget can always be stretched can't it? It might have to stretch to getting a first watch for my 10 year old son too. He wants one for Christmas.

Thanks for the help - sorry for the dumb questions!

Can't any budget be stretched if you want to badly enough?

A few years back I bought my housemate's kids watches for Christmas. I got something Chinese and quartz that looked rather a lot like that Seiko, but about 35mm, via eBay for about $10 a piece. The boy (7 or 8 at the time) was particularly proud of his 'cause it was his first grownup possession and he was the only one in his class with one. The whole act was mostly because their mother is hopelessly late for everything...

Feel free to ask dumb questions! It's the only way to get answers to them,

L

 

[dannymayo]

Have you checked out Fortis? I have a Pilot Professional that I wear as my everyday watch but it looks good with a suit as well. It has everything you listed except for the luminous hands, and it's a day/date. I think some of their other models have the luminous hands.

 

[benvh]

I have a custom Seiko SKX007 from Yobokies that is my daily work watch. Love it! Even the standard model looks great IMO. I wanted a sapphire crystal as I'm super hard on stuff so I figured I might as well go all the way with it. I have the stock rubber, a ZULU and a leather strap for it. I think with the black leather strap it works awesome for the office. I probably use the ZULU most often. I'm not a fan of huge watches and I was somewhat skeptical when ordering it, but it is perfect.

Link (for reference only, no idea if this is a good place to purchase or not)

Good luck!
Ben

 

[Mark1966]

Sorry to confuse you, Mark

Feel free to ask dumb questions! It's the only way to get answers to them,

L

Thanks mate - I'm a slow learner but this makes sense now. I think I know where I'm headed!

 

[Mark1966]

... and the winner is?

Well I think it is the Seiko SNZG15 from either here or here. I think I would actually prefer with the khaki band but that seems a little problematic - and I can change later anyway. It seems to tick all the appropriate boxes and I have a soft spot for Seikos for some reason.

The clincher? My son is after his first watch (see here) and he liked these. The allure of father and son with the same watch was too great!

Thanks all for your advice and suggestions

 

[Legion]

Cool. I think those look like pretty good value watches to me. I was originally thinking of getting one of those when I bought my Seiko dive watch. I decided that me being me, I would probably benefit from something a bit more water proof and robust, but for a normal person 001_rolle) the SNZG15 would be a nice entry into the mechanical watch world.

 

[Mark1966]

... I decided that me being me, I would probably benefit from something a bit more water proof and robust, but for a normal person 001_rolle) the SNZG15 would be a nice entry into the mechanical watch world.

OK, now I'm worried, what will a normal 10 year old do to one!

 

[Legion]

OK, now I'm worried, what will a normal 10 year old do to one!

Nah, it's a good thing. I have been made complacent buy years of using (and abusing) pro dive watches. My other casual watch is an Omega SMP, so I just decided to get something that was closer to the specs of that watch without the price tag, for "high risk" days.

It's better that the kid learns that a mechanical watch is a precision piece of machinery, and it needs to be looked after. That way when he gets older he wont be limited to watches that can hammer in nails.

 

[Mark1966]

... When he gets older he wont be limited to watches that can hammer in nails.

lol!!!!!