Vitos | Extra Super Coco | Extra Super Rosso+ | 1000 ml | Storage Issues

[WThomas0814]

The three types with ingredient list were posted in here in a different thread. Mine only have stickers.

And, yes, I was mistaken. I thought the green was tallow free; it is GLYCERINE free. I've never used green, but, Red is also almond.

 

[Pinto90]

The three types with ingredient list were posted in here in a different thread. Mine only have stickers.

And, yes, I was mistaken. I thought the green was tallow free; it is GLYCERINE free. I've never used green, but, Red is also almond.

So I will repeat myself again, for the three types you are pointing to the green and the two red ones?!

Maybe this time I will be a little clearer.
In your previous post you wrote that there is a red Vitos that contains both coconut oil and tallow at the same time.

I put you the two formulations, if what you write is right there should be a third formulation of red Vitos with coconut.

Vitos Extra Super Coconut : Stearic Acid, Water, Cocos Nucifera Oil, Potassium Hydroxide, Potassium Coconut, Helianthus Annuus Seed Oil, Sodium Hydroxide, Talc, Sodium Silicate, Glycerin, Perfume, Benzaldehyde.

Vitos Extra Super + Coco: Stearic Acid, Hydrogenated Tallow, Aqua, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Talc, Benzaldehyde.

 

[1e4]

Vitos Red + Coco contains coconut oil (the smallest component of the mixture), not coconut scent. Originally, the packaging was a standard Red box with a sticker. It then went to a box with the coconut oil listed as an ingredient.

It contains tallow and is still available from Maguire's. There are non-tallow versions, but, I've never seen a red one. Aren't they still green?

Thanks, Bill. It’s helpful that Maguire’s lists ingredients for the two different red versions — I hadn’t seen such clear labeling at other vendors.

I sent an email to Susan Darnell to ask about the current production versions, hopefully they’ll respond and we can clear up exactly what’s current versus what’s new old stock.

 

[WThomas0814]

Thanks, Bill. It’s helpful that Maguire’s lists ingredients for the two different red versions — I hadn’t seen such clear labeling at other vendors.

I sent an email to Susan Darnell to ask about the current production versions, hopefully they’ll respond and we can clear up exactly what’s current versus what’s new old stock.

My surplus gets vacuum bagged and frozen, so I may not be as concerned about old stock as some.

 

[Pinto90]

This morning I wanted to elaborate to clarify and better understand.
I phoned Susan Darnell and spoke to an operator to ask about this, and she told me that currently the Vitos coconut diaper they produce contains coconut oil and vegetable tallow.

Among the ingredients that appear in the photos of Coco Super Extra is hydrogenated tallow, i.e. animal fat
Now he told me that they use vegetable tallow.

I remembered that they removed tallow from their formulation was animal tallow, so now vegetable tallow.

If there is a red coconut Vitos that does not contain coconut oil and with animal tallow, it must be an earlier discontinued version, I remind you it has already been written in this forum.
Look at post #104

I quote the reply that had come to the user @Miracle


"good morning,

you are right, we have not produced vitos super since this summer and will not produce any more. but we only have vitos classic (green box) and vitos extra super with coconut oil inside.

best regards "



It states that we only have vitos classic green boxes and there vitos extra super with coconut oil inside (red box) , it means that what continues to be produced is with coconut oil inside.
To recap so if you still find two different versions of Vitos coconut in the tile the older one still contains hydrogenated tallow, the newer one contains vegetable tallow and coconut oil.

I have been told that they have changed the ingredients several times to comply with EU regulations, I also point out that the latest trend among soap manufacturers happens to be to remove animal tallow from the ingredients.

 

[NorthernSoul]

This morning I wanted to elaborate to clarify and better understand.
I phoned Susan Darnell and spoke to an operator to ask about this, and she told me that currently the Vitos coconut diaper they produce contains coconut oil and vegetable tallow.

Among the ingredients that appear in the photos of Coco Super Extra is hydrogenated tallow, i.e. animal fat
Now he told me that they use vegetable tallow.

I remembered that they removed tallow from their formulation was animal tallow, so now vegetable tallow.

If there is a red coconut Vitos that does not contain coconut oil and with animal tallow, it must be an earlier discontinued version, I remind you it has already been written in this forum...

There are some misunderstandings in your post which is understandable because of the way the ingredients have been described and how they have changed over time.

First, Vitos soaps all contain coconut oil going back many years. The coconut oil is saponified with Potassium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide when the soap is made. This chemically changes the coconut oil to make soap.

Second, the Vitos Red Coco is basically similar to the plain Vitos Red with added coconut fragrance (parfum). They both were made using coconut oil.

Third, tallow is a somewhat vague term historically used to refer to a solid fat made from rendering animals. However, so-called vegetable tallow is a solid fat made from vegetable sources instead of animal.

To make a vegetable oil more solid, it can be chemically processed through hydrogenation. This increases the proportion of saturated fats in the product so that it more closely resembles a solid fat like tallow.

This implies that when the Vitos ingredients specify hydrogenated tallow, they are actually referring to a vegetable product that has been created using hydrogenation.

 

[Pinto90]

First, Vitos soaps all contain coconut oil going back many years. The coconut oil is saponified with Potassium Hydroxide and Sodium Hydroxide when the soap is made. This chemically changes the coconut oil to make soap.

OK mixed, does that explain why coconut oil does not appear in some ingredients?
Coconut oil is not mentioned in the latest photos of the formulation.

Vitos Extra Super + Coco: Stearic Acid, Hydrogenated Tallow, Aqua, Potassium Hydroxide, Glycerin, Sodium Hydroxide, Sodium Hexametaphosphate, Talc, Benzaldehyde.

In the most recent version of Vitos red coconut oil is mentioned.
Looking at the ingredients Click here

Ingredienti: stearic acid, aqua (water), cocos nucifera (coconut) oil, potassium hydroxide, potassium cocoate, helianthus annuus (sunower) seed oil, sodium hydoxide, talc, sodium silicate, glycerin, parfum (fragrance), benzaldheyde.

 

[Pinto90]

Third, tallow is a somewhat vague term historically used to refer to a solid fat made from rendering animals. However, so-called vegetable tallow is a solid fat made from vegetable sources instead of animal.

To make a vegetable oil more solid, it can be chemically processed through hydrogenation. This increases the proportion of saturated fats in the product so that it more closely resembles a solid fat like tallow.

Perfect but between animal and vegetable tallow there is a big difference, specify it and also know in the ingredients which tallow it is.

Some consumers might prefer animalor others vegetable I suppose, it makes a difference.

 

[NorthernSoul]

OK mixed, does that explain why coconut oil does not appear in some ingredients?
The most recent users who posted a picture of the ingredients of their Vitos red coconut tile the coconut oil is not mentioned.

In the most recent version of Vitos red coconut oil is mentioned.
Looking at the ingredients Click here

Ingredienti: stearic acid, aqua (water), cocos nucifera (coconut) oil, potassium hydroxide, potassium cocoate, helianthus annuus (sunower) seed oil, sodium hydoxide, talc, sodium silicate, glycerin, parfum (fragrance), benzaldheyde.

The maker has the option to specify the ingredients before or after saponification. For example, it might say "coconut oil" or it might say "potassium cocoate, sodium cocoate", and so on. The end product is the same in either case.

Also, I would go by ingredients actually on the box instead of a website, since websites frequently contain typographic errors, things copied wrong, etc.

 

[Pinto90]

Also, I would go by ingredients actually on the box instead of a website, since websites frequently contain typographic errors, things copied wrong, etc.

No mistake if the INCI mentioned coconut oil or otherwise in the ingredients.

In the formulations taken from websites, there could be omissions or forgetfulness, things copied incorrectly not added and we know that there is indeed coconut oil, as specified in the ingredients.

For the rest, the Susan Darnell operator I spoke to told me that between the two versions the soap is the same with the only difference being animal and vegetable tallow.

 

[NorthernSoul]

Perfect but between animal and vegetable tallow there is a big difference, specify it and also know in the ingredients which tallow it is.

Some consumers might prefer animalor others vegetable I suppose, it makes a difference.

The animal and vegetable tallow products are more similar than not in actual chemical makeup. This is why they say hydrogenated.

Without going into a Chemistry lesson, animal and vegetable fats contain a mixture of several different fats with different carbon chain lengths.

Saturated fats are fats like stearic, palmitic, myristic.

Monounsaturated fats are fats like oleic.

Polyunsaturated fats are fats like linoleic.

Compared to animal tallow, vegetable oils generally have much less of the saturated fats and more of the others. So, this gives them different properties compared to animal tallow.

However, if we chemically transform the vegetable oils through hydrogenation, we can artificially create more of the saturated fats which approximates the animal tallow more closely. That is the goal, anyway.

 

[Pinto90]

To make a vegetable oil more solid, it can be chemically processed through hydrogenation. This increases the proportion of saturated fats in the product so that it more closely resembles a solid fat like tallow.

This implies that when the Vitos ingredients specify hydrogenated tallow, they are actually referring to a vegetable product that has been created using hydrogenation.

Very well then, to clarify once again, in the next few days I will visit my Vitos supplier and ask him to show me the new formula of the coconut-red Vitos as it is currently produced.

If it is as I think, the word hydrogenated tallow must have disappeared from the ingredients list.
When I do, I will show a photo of these ingredients.

 

[NorthernSoul]

Very well then, to clarify once again, in the next few days I will visit my Vitos supplier and ask him to show me the new formula of the coconut-red Vitos as it is currently produced.

If it is as I think, the word hydrogenated tallow must have disappeared from the ingredients list.
When I do, I will show a photo of these ingredients.

it would be nice to know. I think it would be good if they could clarify they are using vegetable only ingredients. I think the word tallow is confusing here. Perhaps they did not want to upset their traditional customers in making this change.

 

[Pinto90]

it would be nice to know. I think it would be good if they could clarify they are using vegetable only ingredients.

Ok! If I find the time I will do it, assuming someone else hasn't done it before me.

If as you write with the word hydrogenated tallow you can indicate the presence of animal or vegetable tallow I find it strange, unfair to vegetarian consumers who do not want animal tallow or different for those who prefer animal tallow.

I don't know the EU regulations and I don't know anything about chemistry, but I think that if an ingredient is in small quantities it can be omitted from the list?

That is why I am tempted to think that they have removed the word Hydrogenated Tallow and that the inci I showed in the website link is true or close to the actual formulation.

Beyond what may appear in the different Vitos coconut formats, I'm sure they've been removing the animal tallow for at least two years.
They confirmed this to me today, I already knew this but had forgotten it after a few years.

 

[Jens]

I think the word tallow is confusing here. Perhaps they did not want to upset their traditional customers in making this change.

THIS

 

[1e4]

THIS

They’re onto us.

 

[Jens]

I think it would be good if they could clarify they are using vegetable only ingredients. I think the word tallow is confusing here. Perhaps they did not want to upset their traditional customers in making this change.

If it is true that VITOS uses the word "tallow" for an en entirely plant-based ingredient, I think it verges on false marketing, especially given the sensitivity in the shaving community to exactly the question of tallow. Think of (e.g.) the recent consternation in the shaving community due to Tabac and MWF changing their formulas to eliminate tallow. Why would Tabac and MWF not have simply done what VITOS (allegedly) is now doing ...? My guess is, because they found it would have been misleading, below their standards. "Plant based tallow" certainly seems like a counter-intuitive oxymoron, and again if true, I will have purchased my last brick of Vitos. The reason I became interested in Vitos in the first place was all about tallow.
Luckily I still have a huge stash of Cella..! Think of how Cella has taken the trouble to give their plant based soap a green colored label as opposed to the red label for the tallow based Cella. You'd expect this kind of forth-coming-ness as standard in the shaving soap market.

Of course, there is also the hypothetical possibility that the claim about "plant based tallow" is all balony -- nothing but a fiction of a certain segment of the B&B crowd with nothing better to do than dream up BS for entertainment. It has happened before ...! In fact, to me that seems the more plausible explanation for this scare
...

 

[Pinto90]

Of course, there is also the hypothetical possibility that the claim about "plant based tallow" is all balony -- nothing but a fiction of a certain segment of the B&B crowd with nothing better to do than dream up BS for entertainment. It has happened before ...! In fact, to me that seems the more plausible explanation for this scare
...

I will apologise because I may have some difficulty in translating.

If I understand you correctly, you are writing that this use of vegetable tallow is an invention of mine?
You should thank me for phoning Susan Darnell and taking time out of out of my day to ask for the information and clarification.

Well at this point if you are really interested in getting information about coconut red Vitos you can also email them directly or call them if you know how to speak Italian.
I am no longer interested!
I'll no longer look for information and I'll no longer take the time and trouble to look for information to update the B&B community with news and explanations.

 

[NorthernSoul]

...Luckily I still have a huge stash of Cella..! Think of how Cella has taken the trouble to give their plant based soap a green colored label as opposed to the red label for the tallow based Cella. You'd expect this kind of forth-coming-ness as standard in the shaving soap market.

Looking at Cella Extra Extra Bio you will see it has myristic acid listed as a separate ingredient. With the Bio formula containing stearic acid and myristic acid it behaves a lot like the original Cella Red tallow soap, IMHO.

Bio being an organic veggie soap, the myristic acid is probably produced from vegetable sources using a process like fractionation.

Truth in advertising...

 

[NorthernSoul]

...Well at this point if you are really interested in getting information about coconut red Vitos you can also email them directly or call them if you know how to speak Italian.
I am no longer interested!
I'll no longer look for information and I'll no longer take the time and trouble to look for information to update the B&B community with news and explanations.

I'd still like to hear what you find out and don't speak Italian. I'm sure other people would, also.

Maybe @Jens is just being cynical. Please don't let it bother you, though.