Used Brush Prices are Amazingly High

[MSstrahan]

Ok, I may tick off some folks, but I gotta sound off. Why are people paying 70-90% of retail for a used brush on both BST and ebay? I'm not talking something classic, I'm talking about something you can order new from several websites today. Used brushes must have the highest resale value of any consumer good. It even seems that the higher priced brushes hold their value better, which is counter to how luxury goods usually behave. People who can afford them want to buy new. After all, if I can afford a $140 used brush, I'm sure I can spend $180 to get a new one.

I don't get it. I'd happily pay the extra 10-30% to have a new brush that I knew someone hadn't been letting the cat play with in his litter box. On the plus side, it seems that a brush is a fairly safe thing to spend a lot on sight-unseen. If you don't like it, consider the small depreciation to be the cost of renting it, and sell it.

 

[mblakele]

The market is what it is. I am not a huge believer in rational actors, but I have some rationalizations to share. These are for the B/S/T here: I avoid trying to explain ebay.

First, well-made brushes have historically demonstrated lifespans running into decades. Even after the hair has deteriorated, the handle may be worth re-knotting. The longer a good lasts, the longer its depreciation period ought to be. Both buyers and sellers are aware of that, or ought to be.

Beyond that there is some extra value in buying a used brush vs ordering a new one from a vendor. Handmade brushes are like special little snowflakes, and buying a new brush can be a gamble with whatever gods rule QC. On the other hand a good B/S/T posting will reveal any flaws and display the knot shape and density accurately. This is something most vendors cannot or will not do (with TSS as a shining exception). Together these factors reduce uncertainty for the buyer, which makes buyers more willing to unbelt.

In the special case of a boar brush, a used brush may already be broken in. If so it saves the buyer labor, and is arguably better than a new brush.

 

[Scritchnscrub]

The market is what it is. I am not a huge believer in rational actors, but I have some rationalizations to share. These are for the B/S/T here: I avoid trying to explain ebay.

First, well-made brushes have historically demonstrated lifespans running into decades. Even after the hair has deteriorated, the handle may be worth re-knotting. The longer a good lasts, the longer its depreciation period ought to be. Both buyers and sellers are aware of that, or ought to be.

Beyond that there is some extra value in buying a used brush vs ordering a new one from a vendor. Handmade brushes are like special little snowflakes, and buying a new brush can be a gamble with whatever gods rule QC. On the other hand a good B/S/T posting will reveal any flaws and display the knot shape and density accurately. This is something most vendors cannot or will not do (with TSS as a shining exception). Together these factors reduce uncertainty for the buyer, which makes buyers more willing to unbelt.

In the special case of a boar brush, a used brush may already be broken in. If so it saves the buyer labor, and is arguably better than a new brush.

What's TSS?

 

[Monchoon]

I would think its The Superior Shave store

What's TSS?

 

[McJAGGER]

The market is what it is. I am not a huge believer in rational actors, but I have some rationalizations to share. These are for the B/S/T here: I avoid trying to explain ebay.

First, well-made brushes have historically demonstrated lifespans running into decades. Even after the hair has deteriorated, the handle may be worth re-knotting. The longer a good lasts, the longer its depreciation period ought to be. Both buyers and sellers are aware of that, or ought to be.

Beyond that there is some extra value in buying a used brush vs ordering a new one from a vendor. Handmade brushes are like special little snowflakes, and buying a new brush can be a gamble with whatever gods rule QC. On the other hand a good B/S/T posting will reveal any flaws and display the knot shape and density accurately. This is something most vendors cannot or will not do (with TSS as a shining exception). Together these factors reduce uncertainty for the buyer, which makes buyers more willing to unbelt.

In the special case of a boar brush, a used brush may already be broken in. If so it saves the buyer labor, and is arguably better than a new brush.

+1 Here, here!

 

[hedonist222]

It's the same with high end perfumes. Same with high end watches.

 

[mistercitizen]

So.... what's the problem? I'm not sure who you think you might tick off but I'm also not sure why you're upset. Isn't it nice that a good holds it's value? It'd be nice if more goods were this way, wouldn't it?

Ben

 

[Foyle]

The prices on the BST have always been very fair. It's been a great place to buy, sell, and trade shave gear. If you think the prices are out of line, I suggest you PM one of the mods.

 

[dpmtherrien]

I'll go along with you, I'll take new anytime, won't bother with used.

 

[mistercitizen]

The prices on the BST have always been very fair. It's been a great place to buy, sell, and trade shave gear. If you think the prices are out of line, I suggest you PM one of the mods.

I'd say on a listing by listing basis on B/S/T the members here do a great job of pointing out high or unreasonable prices. I think that's important here to point out when someone is asking for more than something might be worth, especailly for newbies that don't have very much experience with what items are worth. The B/S/T is for mutual benefit.... both for the buyer and seller. But again, worth is subjective and varies from individual to individual so I don't know what can be done about high prices in a general sense on B/S/T. Ultimately, if it's too high, it won't sell. Why would we want any kind of price regulation? As was stated above, the market is what it is.

Ben

 

[mdevine]

Ok, I may tick off some folks, but I gotta sound off. Why are people paying 70-90% of retail for a used brush on both BST and ebay? I'm not talking something classic, I'm talking about something you can order new from several websites today. Used brushes must have the highest resale value of any consumer good. It even seems that the higher priced brushes hold their value better, which is counter to how luxury goods usually behave. People who can afford them want to buy new. After all, if I can afford a $140 used brush, I'm sure I can spend $180 to get a new one.

I don't get it. I'd happily pay the extra 10-30% to have a new brush that I knew someone hadn't been letting the cat play with in his litter box. On the plus side, it seems that a brush is a fairly safe thing to spend a lot on sight-unseen. If you don't like it, consider the small depreciation to be the cost of renting it, and sell it.

I understand what you are saying. Like you, I would only buy certain used items at a substantial discount, soaps and brushes among them. That said, a fair price is what someone will actually pay. Obviously, for a used brush, 70-90% of the original price is what people are willing to pay.

 

[texaninkc]

I'm not sure I agree with your comment that people that can afford it WANT to buy something new. I can afford a new car but I choose to buy a used one. Why buy new when the value of the car will drop the moment I drive it off the lot. Same thing with brushes. Why buy it new when I'm going to lose 20 bucks selling it if I don't like it. I can afford a new one but simply choose not to.

 

[mistercitizen]

I'm not sure I agree with your comment that people that can afford it WANT to buy something new. I can afford a new car but I choose to buy a used one. Why buy new when the value of the car will drop the moment I drive it off the lot. Same thing with brushes. Why buy it new when I'm going to lose 20 bucks selling it if I don't like it. I can afford a new one but simply choose not to.

+1 Very good point.

 

[Mick]

I have been disappointed with some new brushes as I expected one thing and received something totally different.

Brushes are hand made and when you buy one new you have no idea what it is going to look like or be made out of as you won't see it until you open the box. If the brush does not look like what you expected (you are hoping for a fan shape and get a bulb shaped knot), then you have to factor in the cost of sending something back so you have money out of pocket and nothing to use.

Buying a used brush you typically can view a photo of the knot shape and loft so you know you will be getting a fan, modified fan, or bulb.

Besides, if you buy something used, you can use it yourself then if it does not work out for you for some reason, you can resell it for close to what you paid for it and try something else.

You will notice that many of the used brushes are being sold by the 3rd or 4th (or more) owner of that brush.

If you can't seem to find "the" brush for you and you are buying new it is not too hard to rack up thousands of dollars in brush purchases and still be looking (don't ask me how I know this).

 

[MSstrahan]

I get buying a used car. You can save thousands over new, even if it's only a year old. Some cars depreciate 25% in their first year. On the other hand, I usually buy new cars, because I like keep them so long that resale value isn't important. I'd rather start with a car that is new, and maintain it well. I care more about knowing the history of it. I get one I like, take care of it, and I keep it for 10-15 years. I even have one car that's 40 years old this year, my self-restored 240Z. I am its second owner.

Since even lightly used cars don't sell for close to retail, I don't think the used car argument supports the high brush prices. High end cologne and watches are maybe a closer analogy to brushes, though I'm not familiar with them. If they sell for close to new, even after use, I think that's nuts, too. I'd just get a new one.

I kinda get the argument that it's nice to see a brush before you buy it, and buying used lets you do that easier than ordering new. I balance that argument against the warranty and customer support you should expect with a new brush. If you get something new that's not to your liking, can't you return it? How often is a $200 Simpsons bad? They couldn't get that much for them if it happened very much.

I also kinda get the argument about buying a broke in brush, except that it makes no sense that someone who spends the time and money involved in hobbiest level wet shaving wouldn't want to spend a bit more and get a brush to break in themselves. It would be part of the experience of ownership. After all, the brush will last you a lifetime, wouldn't you want it to be exclusively YOUR brush, that you broke in yourself?

As for calling out individual overpriced brushes, I think that's rude and wouldn't do it. I also don't think there should be any attempt to regulate prices in any way. I'm a big free market guy. I also like to understand the market, mostly out of curiosity, hence this thread.

 

[Charlie NJ]

I'm not sure I agree with your comment that people that can afford it WANT to buy something new. I can afford a new car but I choose to buy a used one. Why buy new when the value of the car will drop the moment I drive it off the lot. Same thing with brushes. Why buy it new when I'm going to lose 20 bucks selling it if I don't like it. I can afford a new one but simply choose not to.

Here here, bst is an OPTION. A choice, some like new and buy new. Some like buying used, these items have been tested and evaluated. Also shipping fees can get pricy with new items. Also remember if you buy that new brush and realize its not you cup of tea you can sell it here also at a small loss and move on to another brush

 

[Oscroft]

I wonder if there's another phenomenon going on here?

Having watched BST for a while, I really don't see it as a straight unfettered market, and it doesn't seem to be the kind of place where buyers go for the cheapest they can get and haggle hard.

Instead, I see it as being more community-centric, with buyers actually wanting to pay a decent price to their fellow community members rather than wanting to keep prices down the way they might do on various famous auction sites.

I see a lot of that attitude around the site in general - generous PIFs, selfless help, and so on. I would trust a B&B member selling something on BST far more than I'd trust an unknown person somewhere else, and I'd pay a higher price in return for that trust.

I think that helps to develop the community spirit, and I think it helps in practical terms too. We're always encouraging each other to buy new stuff and try it, and suggesting that a sale on BST won't lose too much money if it doesn't work out. And it pays us to make that happen - the more people feel confident about getting a decent price on BST, the more they'll buy things and give us reviews of it, and the more we'll all learn.

Any of that make sense?

 

[maxman]

I'd rather spend $180 to get a used brush and some soap rather than only a new brush.
Gotta make the most use of my funds you know.
Money doesn't go as far as it used to.

 

[Helzerr]

I see a lot of that attitude around the site in general - generous PIFs, selfless help, and so on. I would trust a B&B member selling something on BST far more than I'd trust an unknown person somewhere else, and I'd pay a higher price in return for that trust.

I think that helps to develop the community spirit, and I think it helps in practical terms too. We're always encouraging each other to buy new stuff and try it, and suggesting that a sale on BST won't lose too much money if it doesn't work out. And it pays us to make that happen - the more people feel confident about getting a decent price on BST, the more they'll buy things and give us reviews of it, and the more we'll all learn.

Any of that make sense?

I completely agree. You also don't see people that are out to gouge and make a profit off what they are selling in B/S/T.
You get people you can trust that aren't scamming you via paypal and are offering you great prices on gear that they know / trust. I have now purchased 3 razors off of B/S/T and I have been nothing but happy with the members I have dealt with and the excellent products I've received.

Now I am also a little bit of a sneakerhead, aka I really like shoes. I hate nothing more than the gougers that go in to buy 3 pairs of size 10.5 shoe just to mark them up 3x what they retail for and sell them on the bay. Especially when they are 3 people in line in front of me. That is not the atmosphere of this community and you will see people re-list items that don't sell so really it all works itself out. /end rant

 

[texaninkc]

I only brought up the used car argument because some, like myself, do not particularly care for something to be new when driving something off the lot brings the value down for an item. Same thing for a brush. A brush that has been used just once is still used and cannot be sold as new. Already, one has to drop down the value about 10% and then lose money on paypal fees and shipping. A 200 brush will go on sale for 180, and owner takes home about 165-170 (a 15% markdown), regardless of whether that brush has been used once or 2 dozen times.

Just looking at a brush out of the box new and unused is not enough to determine what the shape of the knot is going to look like. Best way to tell the shape of the knot is to use it and let it open up. Therefore, I wouldn't be able to return an item to Simpsons if I didn't like it once I used it. If it doesn't work or starts to fall apart then, yes, being the original owner is important because I can take it back to the manufacturer. As a used brush buyer, that's really the only risk I take.

The reason the used brush prices are "high" in your opinion, is because unlike other items, the wear on a brush isn't as significant as say in another wet-shaving item. Same thing as razors. Other than the initial break-in, a year's use on a brush is not the same as a year's use on a soap, aftershave, etc. Beyond the initial depreciation in value, the brush will not lose much more on it. Maintenance on a brush is also pretty minimal.

The drop in value in a brush does not continue to happen as it does in a car. Both work the same in that they lose immediate value on first use, but beyond that, your car is going to require plenty of maintenance and part replacements and this is what leads to continued loss of value. Keeping your brush clean does not cost much and therefore a brush that's 3-4 years old behaves pretty close to what it behaves after a couple of shaves. That's the reason the price doesn't continue to drop or does not drop that much lower after first use.

With that said, I would argue that it makes more sense to buy a brush used because beyond the first drop, I can resell the brush for what I paid for it. The cost to try or rent the brush to me as a second or third owner is a lot lower than if I'm the first.

You sound like the guy that won't buy something unless you plan to keep it. If that's the case, then I see why you would want to buy something new. If buying new brings you the piece of mind that no one else has used the brush and could "contaminate it" then go for it. I just think my shampoo which cost 1 cent per use to clean the brush is savings over the $20 I lose if I plan to sell the brush I bought new; and the brush I get will behave pretty much how it was going to if I bought new and continued to use it.

I also think that most members understand that a used brush is going to be a lot like buying a brush new. And being that this is a gentlemanly forum, members are mindful of this fact and wont be out to demand a bigger drop in price of a brush. I'm not going to tell a guy to sell me a brush for 20% off because he used it once or half a dozen times. 10-15% off a used brush is a gentlemanly request we seem to get on the BST and there are some members here that pretty much give their stuff away.