Unrestorable Razor?

[mmiller3475]

What if anything would make a razor "unrestorable"? I've been looking at some razors on Ebay that were in pretty rough shape (the blades had too many big gouges). I was looking for a razor to practice honing or minimal restoration.

I'm constantly amazed at the high level of restoration work posted by members here, but I have to wonder at what point would a razor be deemed DOA or not worth bothering with? Is it a purely subjective evaluation?

 

[luvmysuper]

It's subjective to the skill level of the restorer. Practice is practice, but if you're going to wind up with a beautifully restored 1/8 razor, I'd probably pass on it.

 

[SliceOfLife]

A crack in the blade that isn't right near the toe. A chip that is more than half the depth of the blade. Serious grinding damage (mostly a time thing here). And of course any razor that started at 5/8" or bigger and is worn down below 4/8" I don't bother with. There are probably more that I don't recall right now.

 

[mmiller3475]

It's subjective to the skill level of the restorer. Practice is practice, but if you're going to wind up with a beautifully restored 1/8 razor, I'd probably pass on it.

I don't think any of the razors were that bad, but there was at least one that had gouge that looked between 1/4" and 1/8" deep. I felt that was beyond my limited skills. On the plus side, I certainly would have gotten some honing practice!

 

[mmiller3475]

A crack in the blade that isn't right near the toe. A chip that is more than half the depth of the blade. Serious grinding damage (mostly a time thing here). And of course any razor that started at 5/8" or bigger and is worn down below 4/8" I don't bother with. There are probably more that I don't recall right now.

I suppose what looks beyond repair to me could mean nothing to someone skilled in restoring. I did see some razors that had fairly deep (to me at least) gouges. Your suggestions of what to look for are very helpful...thank you.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Gouges vary a lot, and placement means a lot more to me than size. In the end, it's pretty rare that a razor that isn't damaged beyond recognition has gouges that will affect the edge after a fresh bevel is set and if necessary, a couple mm is honed off and then the bevel is reset. It really is only a problem of VERY abused extra hollow grinds. A wedgier razor probably could have spent a century under water and STILL be honed down to true metal without losing much size. What does suck (on extra hollows mostly) is when you THINK you've got a clean bevel, but after honing you peek under a scope you notice that there are microchips (or even tiny swiss cheese holes in the bevel) left from tiny specs of pitting meaning you need to push the bevel back just a hair and rehone start to finish... not fun when you were eager to test shave your freshly restored razor.

 

[mmiller3475]

Gouges vary a lot, and placement means a lot more to me than size. In the end, it's pretty rare that a razor that isn't damaged beyond recognition has gouges that will affect the edge after a fresh bevel is set and if necessary, a couple mm is honed off and then the bevel is reset. It really is only a problem of VERY abused extra hollow grinds. A wedgier razor probably could have spent a century under water and STILL be honed down to true metal without losing much size. What does suck (on extra hollows mostly) is when you THINK you've got a clean bevel, but after honing you peek under a scope you notice that there are microchips (or even tiny swiss cheese holes in the bevel) left from tiny specs of pitting meaning you need to push the bevel back just a hair and rehone start to finish... not fun when you were eager to test shave your freshly restored razor.

Thank you for your comments. It all comes down to my skill level and what I think I can accomplish. I would pass on a razor that you would not think twice about restoring. The gouges would certainly give me some practice in honing. What kind of microscope do you use? I've never seen swiss cheese type holes in the bevel! How could those happen? The poor razor must have been laying in water!

 

[mmiller3475]

Gouges vary a lot, and placement means a lot more to me than size. In the end, it's pretty rare that a razor that isn't damaged beyond recognition has gouges that will affect the edge after a fresh bevel is set and if necessary, a couple mm is honed off and then the bevel is reset. It really is only a problem of VERY abused extra hollow grinds. A wedgier razor probably could have spent a century under water and STILL be honed down to true metal without losing much size. What does suck (on extra hollows mostly) is when you THINK you've got a clean bevel, but after honing you peek under a scope you notice that there are microchips (or even tiny swiss cheese holes in the bevel) left from tiny specs of pitting meaning you need to push the bevel back just a hair and rehone start to finish... not fun when you were eager to test shave your freshly restored razor.

I just came back from hunting razors. I found one for $8 that should clean up nicely. I did see many razors that not only had chips gone from the blade but also half the blade was missing! One had a piece missing from the blade the size of your thumb. That would be considered unrestorable?

 

[Luc]

I just came back from hunting razors. I found one for $8 that should clean up nicely. I did see many razors that not only had chips gone from the blade but also half the blade was missing! One had a piece missing from the blade the size of your thumb. That would be considered unrestorable?

I think in that condition it could be restored but is it worth it? I don't think so. It depends if you are happy with half a blade missing... I think for the same price you can get a full blade...

 

[mmiller3475]

I think in that condition it could be restored but is it worth it? I don't think so. It depends if you are happy with half a blade missing... I think for the same price you can get a full blade...

The odd thing about that particular razor is that price was more than other razors with full blades! How do you snap or break a razor like that? On another razor, there seemed to be something missing at the point, and I couldn't decide if there was something missing or that's the way it should be. So far it's been great fun just looking...I did buy one for $8. I think I should get a list of reputable companies that I should look for - Wade and Butcher was the only "name" that I've recognized.

 

[Luc]

The odd thing about that particular razor is that price was more than other razors with full blades! How do you snap or break a razor like that? On another razor, there seemed to be something missing at the point, and I couldn't decide if there was something missing or that's the way it should be. So far it's been great fun just looking...I did buy one for $8. I think I should get a list of reputable companies that I should look for - Wade and Butcher was the only "name" that I've recognized.

Do you have any pictures of the $8 straight?

Wade and Butcher is a good company. Pretty much anything made in Sheffield is good, French steel is good too. German are my favorites. American steel also has a nice reputation.

If you pick one of those, you should be fine!

 

[mmiller3475]

Do you have any pictures of the $8 straight?

Wade and Butcher is a good company. Pretty much anything made in Sheffield is good, French steel is good too. German are my favorites. American steel also has a nice reputation.

If you pick one of those, you should be fine!

I'm trying to borrow a camera so pics might be a little slow in coming. The blade is covered and pitted with rust, but the scales seem to be okay. If I took the scales apart, I don't know if I should try and save them or just get new ones. The Wade and Butchers I saw seemed to be too big for me - a 7/8 if not an 8/8, and the whole razor seemed heavy. I tried to keep my eyes peeled for anything from Soligen and Sheffield but there was nothing I could find. I did see some Red Imps, but I think they were more than what I wanted to spend. I also picked up a brass GEM that will look good with some cleaning. For right now, the one straight will give me a good idea of restoring. I have a Norton 4000/8000 stone, but I think I'll need something else...any recommendations?

 

[Luc]

I'm trying to borrow a camera so pics might be a little slow in coming. The blade is covered and pitted with rust, but the scales seem to be okay. If I took the scales apart, I don't know if I should try and save them or just get new ones. The Wade and Butchers I saw seemed to be too big for me - a 7/8 if not an 8/8, and the whole razor seemed heavy. I tried to keep my eyes peeled for anything from Soligen and Sheffield but there was nothing I could find. I did see some Red Imps, but I think they were more than what I wanted to spend. I also picked up a brass GEM that will look good with some cleaning. For right now, the one straight will give me a good idea of restoring. I have a Norton 4000/8000 stone, but I think I'll need something else...any recommendations?

If there's pitting on the edge, it's not good. It will need to be honed out to have a straight edge.

If you bought the razor off ebay you could link the auction here if it's finished or upload the pictures...

For the hone, I'm no honer, but, a 4k/8k would be good to keep the edge alive and remove minor chips IMO. A 1k would probably be best for a razor that you don't know if the bevel is right...

 

[SliceOfLife]

Do you have any pictures of the $8 straight?

Wade and Butcher is a good company. Pretty much anything made in Sheffield is good, French steel is good too. German are my favorites. American steel also has a nice reputation.

If you pick one of those, you should be fine!

Honestly the only vintage blade I've heard of that is reputed to NOT be a fine shaver is some pakistan made thing called if I recall right "Two Golden Men". Within vintages I'd go so far as to say that the brands people think are "best" is almost purely preference. I've yet to find a vintage that wasn't a good shaver once it was properly honed (though some *cough Fred Reynolds cough* can be harder to hone than others.

These threads are always more informative if there are pictures. If you get an off look, just tell the dealer you're showing them to a friend who may want to buy it but had to work that day or something. If they still seem disconcerted, take your business elsewhere.

I tried to keep my eyes peeled for anything from Soligen and Sheffield but there was nothing I could find.

You'd be surprised. The vast majority of vintage razor steel (even that used in US made razors) originated in Solingen or Sheffield. The "Brands to avoid" list on SRP is a great tool. The "Good Brands" is all but useless. It represents maybe a hundredth of a percent of the actual good brands. Razors made back then were made to shave with. They had to be good or they would not sell. Most razors made today (with a few well known exceptions) are total garbage because there are always consumers on the internet who will pay for something that is non functional. Hence the existence of modern brands like Jacobs razors, Kreiger, and Tomahawk.


I wouldn't want to start honing razors without a 1k stone. I set a bevel on EVERY razor I hone these days. Too many hours spent finishing a razor that felt sharp only to notice that there was a spot (usually heel) that the last honer hadn't gotten properly beveled. You can bevel on a Norton 4k I'm told. But then again you can bevel on a shapton 30k (just don't ask me to prove this. I have things to do for the next three months) if you really want to. It's a question of patience and feasibility. 2k is as low as I'd EVER go for a synthetic beveling stone. I usually edge my razors on 220 or 600 depending on edge condition and then complete a bevel on my 1200 before I start moving up the hones.


I also take ALL pitting out of the edge up to at LEAST 2mm (~bevel width on a lot of razors) before I'll leave my 220grit hone. Remember as you sharpen you are NARROWING the edge (and the entire bevel in fact), so that little dimple of pitting can (and has on me MANY times) turn into a hole that leaves your bevel looking like swiss cheese. Don't waste your time sharpening an edge only to have to remove all that work because it wasn't solid... make sure you've got all the pitting out before you progress.

 

[mmiller3475]

I bought the razor at an antiques store so there's no going back. If nothing else, I will learn how to remove as much rust and pitting as I can. It will be a slow process to be sure. Now I'm trying to find a bench grinder to use. Rather than looking for specific brands, I think I'd be better off to look where the steel came from like a Soligon or Sheffield. The process will be interesting starting with learning how to upload a picture!

 

[mmiller3475]

If there's pitting on the edge, it's not good. It will need to be honed out to have a straight edge.

If you bought the razor off ebay you could link the auction here if it's finished or upload the pictures...

For the hone, I'm no honer, but, a 4k/8k would be good to keep the edge alive and remove minor chips IMO. A 1k would probably be best for a razor that you don't know if the bevel is right...

I won this on Ebay - http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=120615255781.

I will have my work cut out for me with that one as well!