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- #21
I think the question is more is there a reason for the modern sr user to bother with them than whether they are razor grade given the speed and refinement offered by some modern synths.
To people who say don't lap barber hones...
- Thread starter kcb5150
- Start date
To say they are not fit for straights you may as well say all synthetics are not fit.
I own several that are well beyond "fit"
Perhaps you have had no luck with them but I assure you, there are more than a few that are damn fine hones.
Mine didn't have that. They were more like old soggy mortar crumbling away or wet brick.
I have had a few with that popcorn crazing you mention, but they're all Frictionite, and they actually seem to still be just fine... it doesn't seem to affect grit.
Frictionite stones are weird. They melt if you try to lap them too fast. No joke. Put one on a belt sander and it'll turn to glass (ultra smooth and shiny), stop wearing, and the trailing edge of the hone will get an overhang of melted hone that ran off the stone and reset, which you can snap off... behaves just like melted plastic.
This picture here is what you're talking about, right? This hone is fine. Not broken down at all. That crazing doesn't extend into the hone more than a couple mm... but the sides all look like that.
Attachments
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- #24
I have had the unlabelled brown swaty types that end up looking loosely integrated. The other way is when no matter what you lap them on the surface always stayed mangled and never really smooths out. Shrunken ones...
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Yeah I had one of those shrunken ones awhile back. Most of the ones I call "broken down" were just soft and wet feeling... Like cement with too much sand in it... you could almost crumble them apart with your hands.
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- #26
The binder may be some sort of epoxy or something on the frictionite, idk.
I would guess so. It's really interesting, and part of why they're such a bear to lap... every other hone, with a strong enough belt, you can power them down in a few minutes at most. Frictionite the fastest way is just a diamond plate and some muscle. There are probably other hones that would behave the same way on the belt, but either they're so soft I never bothered to try, or they don't warp like Frictionites, so I never needed to remove that much material.
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- #28
I really didn't find it bad once I found a grit it liked dispensing slurry on and not rinsing as I went. Whatever the abrasives in those things are have severe aggression. I was literally eating sic off the backing of the wet dry. Very few things do that in my experience
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- #29
It didn't really like sub 200 grit wet dry much.. 320 though with small circles and they were coughing up slurry.
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- #30
Lapped a little frictionite just now. This one had low corners on the fine side so it put up more of a fight but still it didn't play up too much. It was coughing up material readily on 400 grit.
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- #31
I have found it just acts strange when lapping ultra coarse. It gets flat, but you get horrible gouges.
Avoid.
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- #34
It does work for the intended task and really quickly at that. I think if I couldn't afford a lot of hones I would rather have a barber hone capable of churning out a really sharp edge with a good V vs a pasted strop that would convex the hell out of it.
There are some impressive ones. I’m not thrilled by the frictionites enough to justify their cost of $200+, but I hear axemen in Australia drive them up like the Norton’s (though I’ve sold a half dozen or so and all went to US addresses). Panama Hone, synth coti, and a few others in the $20-50 range though? I’d definitely recommend. Hell, I’m on my second thread now trying to identify any types that provide a value that beats the natural and modern alternatives.
Got that right!
Notables for me, both Panama hones (black finish side preferred though), Lakeside, Witte Hardware, and of course Frictionite.
The Frictionite can give a great shave but the others mentioned can be used more freely without degradation.
There are quite a few that will still give a very pleasant shave but these just stand out.
If memory serves the best so far with the tests are:
Synthetic coti/Japanese mystery>
Panama/red mystery >
Good Swaty>
——————cutoff for desirable stones——————
Clonet/American Buddy(frictionite type)/black+grey mystery (frictionite type)/dubl duck/de-fi/ ambicut/ swastika/ peek-in>
______________cutoff for acceptable stones_________
Brackets/frictionite 00 >
Most other stuff
The swaty and dubl duck seem to vary a lot though. I’ve had 3 dubl duck before that were meh, and dozens of meh swaty hones... so I can’t recommend looking for them since they seem inconsistent.
Panama seem fairly consistent based on reputation... and synthetic coticule vary but other than JGES all seem good. Other two in the top tier are unidentified.
I’m surprised Panama are still <$50, while lakeside go for $100+... but for the time being I’d recommend them and coticules as the barber synthetics worth snagging for a razor finisher based on price/performance. Keeping my eyes open for a cheap lakeside to test.
In the “acceptable “ group, most I haven’t had enough to judge consistency... but if you see them under $25, may be worth a gamble.
Synthetic coti/Japanese mystery>
Panama/red mystery >
Good Swaty>
——————cutoff for desirable stones——————
Clonet/American Buddy(frictionite type)/black+grey mystery (frictionite type)/dubl duck/de-fi/ ambicut/ swastika/ peek-in>
______________cutoff for acceptable stones_________
Brackets/frictionite 00 >
Most other stuff
The swaty and dubl duck seem to vary a lot though. I’ve had 3 dubl duck before that were meh, and dozens of meh swaty hones... so I can’t recommend looking for them since they seem inconsistent.
Panama seem fairly consistent based on reputation... and synthetic coticule vary but other than JGES all seem good. Other two in the top tier are unidentified.
I’m surprised Panama are still <$50, while lakeside go for $100+... but for the time being I’d recommend them and coticules as the barber synthetics worth snagging for a razor finisher based on price/performance. Keeping my eyes open for a cheap lakeside to test.
In the “acceptable “ group, most I haven’t had enough to judge consistency... but if you see them under $25, may be worth a gamble.
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Yes the Bracket Brazilian, I forgot that one.
The Apart I believe is slightly better than a decent Swaty but pretty much the same.
The Apart I believe is slightly better than a decent Swaty but pretty much the same.
I’ve had a couple awful Apart hones. Barely bevel setters if I remember right, but small sample size and fits right in with swaty hones. They vary WILDLY. I compared slurry between three at one point. One was <micron(15-30k) One was about 5 micron (3-4K). One was 20+ micron (~1k)
Most seem to be in the middle 3-8k, but cut finer because they don’t refresh much and the abrasive rounds off a bit with use... not as good as they used to be reported to be, but at least usable... unlike THE MAJORITY of barber synthetics.
Most seem to be in the middle 3-8k, but cut finer because they don’t refresh much and the abrasive rounds off a bit with use... not as good as they used to be reported to be, but at least usable... unlike THE MAJORITY of barber synthetics.
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- #40
A good john primble is nice in the way a good swaty is
