This One, or That One? Another Bike Thread.

[73mountaineer]

Some of you know that I have been on the hunt for a new bike for a while & I think I pretty much have it narrowed down to two that seem to be exceptionally good values. One is a Fuji Cross 3.0 from Performance Bike, and the other is a house-branded cross bike from Nashbar (also owned by Performance, from my understanding). Both bikes are in the $750-800 range, with the Nashbar bike fluctuating between $749-799 depending on their promo of the day.

The Fuji, shown here, is aluminum-framed with Tiagra components across the board (cassette, front & rear derailleurs, levers & shifters).

The Nashbar, shown here, is steel-framed and 105-equipped across the board.

Nashbar runs promos all of the time, with 20% off everything, including bikes, popping up once every 3-4 weeks it seems, so there is potential to snag the 105-equipped bike for $600-650 if I wait it out. As luck would have it, I just missed their last offer that expired on the 13th.

I could potentially save some significant money and have upgraded components with the Nashbar bike, but will still have to do the final assembly myself and will have no built-in dealer support. That savings is also contingent on me competently doing the final assembly myself, rather than having a local shop do it.

With the Fuji, I have the backing of a branded bike shipped directly to a store within 45 minutes of my house with free assembly and lifetime adjustments with a well-established dealer network.

I was leaning toward the Fuji, but the 105 components, and possible lower price, are mighty hard to turn away from. I had also preferred a steel frame, but it isn't a strong preference.

Are the 105 components that much of an upgrade over Tiagra that I should even be debating it so heavily, or is it even worth the trade off in $$ to not have immediate shop support?

 

[Graybeard57]

I'd go with This One, the Fuji. Who wants a steel frame? Not me.

 

[temjeito]

I love a good steel frame, but the 105s are a substantial upgrade from the Tiagras in terms of performance and durability (at least, this was true the last time I was in the market for Shimano components, which admittedly was a while ago. I bought a steel framed road bike (Specialized Allez) about ten years ago. It had full 105 components, and in all that time I've only had to change the chain and brake cables. Taking care to keep the bike well maintained is a big part of it, but it wouldn't hesitate to get the 105s over the Tiagras.

Also, you might want to look into getting a copy of Zinn And The Art Of Road bike Maintenance if you don't already have it.

 

[dsmdylan]

Tiagra isn't bad stuff by any means and if anything goes wrong, components are easily upgraded. The real value is in the frame and the wheelset and I'm willing to bet that's where the Nashbar cuts cost. Notice that the Fuji's front wheel is radially spoked while the Nashbar looks to be 2-crossed in the front and back. You also get some nice Oval parts with the Fuji.

Put it this way: if both of those bikes had Sora components, it still wouldn't be the first thing to upgrade on either. For that reason, I'd go with the Fuji.

 

[ricardo9505]

agreed, the 105's are superb and worth it alone. I'm just surprised that none have carbon forks. But I like the fuji frame
Of My last two bikes I bought my last from bikesdirect. awesome site if you compare the specs on derailleurs, frame material and upgrades (e.g. Carbon fork, disc brakes) .

 

[dougydee]

I think at that price point each bike will have strengths and weaknesses as the bike manufacture needs to save money somewhere. Both bikes are not fully equipped with tiagra or 105 as the brakes and crankset are tektro and fsa respectively so keep that in mind when comparing to other bikes.
Buying in-store would definitely be best IMHO as it's important that your bike fits comfortably. It might cost more but the level of comfort will be such that you'll be comfortable riding and will be more inclined to ride more often.

 

[73mountaineer]

I think at that price point each bike will have strengths and weaknesses as the bike manufacture needs to save money somewhere. Both bikes are not fully equipped with tiagra or 105 as the brakes and crankset are tektro and fsa respectively so keep that in mind when comparing to other bikes.
Buying in-store would definitely be best IMHO as it's important that your bike fits comfortably. It might cost more but the level of comfort will be such that you'll be comfortable riding and will be more inclined to ride more often.

True, but at my price point, that is the rule, not the exception. Almost all cranksets in this price range are FSA, so it is almost a given. Getting the other components matched up is where things start to get a little wonky and I start seeing 2300/sora/tiagra/105 mix and match combos.

 

[dsmdylan]

You seem to be excessively focused on the components? Fancy 105 components and crap wheels and frame is going to get smoked by Sora components and a nice frame and wheelset all day.

 

[fast14riot]

First off, assembling a bike out of the box isn't a big deal. Front wheel, seat/seatpost, handle bars.

Between the two, I would lean towards the Nasbar. I have ridden several of their frames and they aren't too shabby. I like that the steel frame uses a trditional headset, but th fuji uses integrated. Fuji also uses a 34.9 seat post, going to be difficult to find something reasonably priced to upgrade, the nashbar doesn't list size, but 27.2 is standrd for most steel frames.

The big difference is going to be the shifters, 105 over tiagra is a huge difference. Much cleaner, crisper shifting. Fuji says proprietary tubing, its basically 7005 aluminum, so no heat treating needed and keeps the cost down, but isn't as light as 6061.

For upgrades, I would consider wheels, seat post and stem bars. If you went fuji, all that plus shifters/rear derailleur.

If the closest Performance Bike is 45 minutes away, how likely are you to go there for basic service anyways? I managed a Performance, all that's included are free lifetime basic adjustments, brakes, shifting and maybe a wheel true depending on the mechanic. It does not include replacing brake pads, cables, spokes, etc. You should learn to do that anyways.

Neither one has a carbon fork, so that is a wash anyways.

-Xander

 

[fast14riot]

You seem to be excessively focused on the components? Fancy 105 components and crap wheels and frame is going to get smoked by Sora components and a nice frame and wheelset all day.

Well, when those fancy radial laced wheels and frame miss a shift, it won't make a difference.
Personally, I wuld never put a radial front wheel on a cross bike for anyone over 120#. Plus, the fuji lists just alloy rims but formula hubs so those may just taco in a water bar. I like Alex rims for value wheels, double walled, usually eyeletted and their branded hubs are made by Formula anyways. Radial laced front wheel will feel funky for anyone close to 200#, add in the 35 wide tires and it will compound it.

Steel, mixed with carbon in the right places (seat post, bars) will be such a smooth nd vibration free ride, where aluminum mixed with carbon still has some high frequency buzz. I ride both, every day, and have for years.

Try a long climb and a poorly timed down shift in a false peak with tiagra, see how it handles it. It will b sluggish and weak, the 105 will be cleaner, more exact and not break rythum.


-X

 

[dsmdylan]

So you'd rather ride a Huffy with 105s than a Felt with Scott wheels and Tiagra components? Not that the Nashbar is a Huffy but it might as well be if nobody is talking about anything except the components (except you, up to this point)

 

[fast14riot]

Well, yes, and I do! My singlespeed mtb that I race had an el cheapo Schwinn Moab frame for many years. I had all Ti controls, custom wheels, customized air fork, ti brakes, etc, but the ride was decent (a bit flexy, but certainly not bad) and the geometry fit me perfectly. I did well on that bike and it served me well. I also built my wifes mtb on an inexpensive Specialized Hardrock frame, specifically because of the geometry. Her bike is all 8sp XTR and uses an old school Judy SL fork I rebuilt (before they were junk), custom XTR front and Cane Creek WAM rear.

I finally switched to a steel Marin frame last year with very similar geometry but a taller head tube. I switched because I had the frame, not because I needed to.

The frame has two functions only, geometry and rigidity. There is a period at the end of that sentence. I don't care what its made from, if it don't fit, it isn't going to make your ride any more comfrtable. Also, if it flexes the wrong way, it won't allow the components to do their job with precision.

For the OP, his price point is limited to ~$800, with upgrading over time a real possibility. Why make that a more costly option with proprietary sizing and lower grade components? If he chooses, he can find a better than both current options second hand frame for far less than buying a drive train and upgranding.

My SS/MTB is a mechanics special, for sure, perfectly tuned, perfect fit, older components and mismatched all over the place. But it rides like a much more expensive bike, even with a cheap frame. Most riders will never know the difference between wheel flex and frame flex, unless you spend lots of hous a week on the same bike and are actually paying attention to it.


-Xander

 

[73mountaineer]

So you'd rather ride a Huffy with 105s than a Felt with Scott wheels and Tiagra components? Not that the Nashbar is a Huffy but it might as well be if nobody is talking about anything except the components (except you, up to this point)

Maybe you could help educate me on why the wheels on the Fuji would be superior, as my level of technical knowledge doesn't extend that far? Radial lacing vs standard lacing will benefit me how? I honestly don't know the pros and cons.

I am focusing a good bit on the components because at my skill level and intended use, that is going to be where I am going to feel the difference the most, I think. From my perspective, steel vs aluminum amounts to primarily a weight vs smoothness debate, in which case a better ride is going to win me over because I am not as concerned with a slight weight penalty. Realistically, we are talking about how much of a weight difference? 1-3lbs, as a guess? The Nashbar bike is reported to weigh somewhere between 23-25lbs out of the box, the Fuji could be expected to be around, what 20-23? That's just a guess, but I wouldn't expect a sub-20lb bike at this price, right?

If you can find me a Felt with Scott wheels and a Tiagra drivetrain for less than $800, I'll buy that and end the debate!

Honestly, just didn't want you to think I was dismissing your input, it is appreciated and is contributing to my decision.

 

[73mountaineer]

Tried to give my local shop a shot at it today, but they said they don't stock 'cross bikes. Checked the Performance Bike store in Newark too, but the only one they had was a 52cm '12 Fuji. He said they had others but had just sold them recently. If I wanted a straight up road bike I could have done well there though.

 

[fast14riot]

Radially laced wheels by design have to carry much more tension per spoke than cross laced. This also leads to torqueing, the hub spinning within the hoop and adding more tension to the spokes. They also tend to be not as stiff latterally. All this is compounded by greater sprung weight. By lacing spokes tangentially from the hub in both directions you greatly reduce the amount of movement due to torque (yes, front wheels act under torque too). The spokes will be longer and at generally a slightly lower tension, allowing more stretch and not popping spokes near as much.

Honestly, you will find that both those bikes will be in the 25# range. If it were me with either of those bikes, I would upgrade wheels first. Then the seat post stems/bars and fork. Stock wheels in that price class aren't going to be fantastic anyways. Often, a decent set of wheels will cost half of the price of the bike. But for you I would search for some Open pro hoops laced to either formula sealed bearing hubs or 105 hubs. If you found a decent price on components I would even be willing to build you a set, no labor charge, once you get a bike. Yeah, its across the country, but a savings can still be had with some patient shopping.

Again, based on upgrading slowly, I would vote for the Nashbar. Even if you come across an ultra sweet vintage Kelly cross frame, everything will fit on it. The fuji will need a seat post, and headset at least, that's another $100 or more easily.

In the mean time, go pick up a copy of pretty much any maintenance book by Leonard Zinn, he makes it all very easy to understand and is very thorough.



-Xander

 

[73mountaineer]

I've got the Zinn & the Art of Road Bike Maintenance book on the way from Amazon, and you are probably right, the chance that I am going to drive 45 minutes away to have any minor work done is almost nil. I do a lot of the routine maintenance and minor repairs on our vehicles and around the house as it is, so I'm pretty sure I can learn to do most basic work on a bike also. I enjoy that kind of stuff, and any excuse to buy new tools is ok by me.

I'm not too worried about the bike weight as the most efficient weight savings at this point will come off of me. After that, I'd follow the advice above and probably pick up a better wheel set. I'd like to have a second set strictly for road slicks anyway, so I can swap back and forth easier. One of the reasons why I settled on a cross bike is to have something better suited to run some of the rail trails and park trails around here while passing my MTB on to my son. The first time I saw how much a decent set of wheels cost, I was definitely a little shocked.

 

[andrew98]

Even if money ends up being a wash between the two bikes or you have a shop true up the wheels or something, I'd much rather have 105 components.

-Andy

 

[andrew98]

agreed, the 105's are superb and worth it alone. I'm just surprised that none have carbon forks. But I like the fuji frame
Of My last two bikes I bought my last from bikesdirect. awesome site if you compare the specs on derailleurs, frame material and upgrades (e.g. Carbon fork, disc brakes) .

Same here. I bought a Motobecane Fantom 29PRO about a year ago (upgraded the brakes to Shimano SLX), and it's been the best XC (big uphill riding) bike I've ever owned.

I bought a Windsor The Hour singlespeed a couple months ago for commuting. I bought it a shorter stem, fenders, and had the wheels trued. It's a great ride. I can't believe how comfortable steel is on bumpy city streets.

Both those bikes are, imo, excellent value.

-Andy

 

[Groat]

I bought a Windsor The Hour singlespeed a couple months ago for commuting. I bought it a shorter stem, fenders, and had the wheels trued. It's a great ride. I can't believe how comfortable steel is on bumpy city streets.

Did it come with a freewheel? I was under the impression that it didn't. Still, if you're looking for a new bike and only have $300 to spend you aren't going to get a much better deal than that.

 

[Swampy]

Have you checked out bikesdirect? Also if you are planning on doing any work to your bike yourself I would recommend buying a bike stand. The assembly of the bike itself is not bad at all but, tuning the derailers can be a pain.