This Beautiful Thing

[pbrmhl]

Took the Fatip out for a turn today, together with the 2011 R41. Kept the Ikon Tech in reserve to bat cleanup, which seems to have become its function. Must say that there's a lot to like about the Fatip. For starters, just look at it!
View attachment 924425
The thing's frickin' gorgeous. Considering the price point and the brass build, it's pretty amazing. No problems with finish on this little beauty and no problems with blade slippage -- the main bugaboos guys report with the Fatip. In fact, the cap gets as tight as any other razor as far as I can tell.

In terms of shave quality, I get why many men love it. This V1 head has huge blade exposure, offering a close shave, while at the same time offering comfort. There's some blade chatter but I like that. Hard to hear it in the shower but for those who shave at the sink, it will be obvious.

I'm a bit unusual in that I like a lot of blade feel. This razor came up a bit short for me in that regard but I think most guys would consider this a plus. Its comfort surpasses any of the other close razors I've tried so far, including the Fendrihan Mark-I which I consider a great value razor. In a way the two are similar but the Fendrihan comes up a bit short when I consider it for my rotation (not quite close enough or engaging, too comfortable), whereas the Fatip has other qualities that make it more interesting (such as its beauty but also the fact that it is more engaging than the Fendrihan, though not by a lot).

I was able to get a great shave with it. Required some touch up and polishing effort but at the end of the day it stood toe-to-toe with the 2011 R41 and then some. It's a bit lighter than is my preference though I could swap the handle. On the other hand, looks would take a big hit. Still, it's doable. Though the threads are not standard, a bit of Teflon tape would take care of that. Perhaps with the right handle.

The R41 has the extra feedback I like. Can really feel the blade running across the skin. Very close shave on the flats but has trouble getting into curves and recesses. At the end of the day, I like these razors about the same, albeit in different ways. There's a good chance both will be in my final rotation.

Having said that, there's a reason the Ikon Tech has been my reserve razor in every test. Although it would become monotonous to shave with just the Tech every day, I've become addicted to the incredibly close shave it offers combined with the incredible, gripping seat-of-the-pants feedback it offers. With the Tech, I don't have to think at all. It tells me how to hold the razor, what angle is best, how much pressure to apply (almost none). Thus, it bats cleanup -- which is exactly what it did today. After working the Fatip to get as good a shave as possible (which required not all that much effort and produced a very nice result) and the R41 on the other side (which required significantly more effort -- which I find odd given that the head dimensions of the R41 and the Fatip are similar), I brought in the Tech to mow down every remaining bit of stubble with ease.

I can see why many guys think the Tech is harsh. To me, it's about as close to perfect as anything in this world can be. With each new test, I come to appreciate it more and more because nothing can match it. Some come close in shave result but in terms of feedback and intuitive ease of use, nothing so far can hold its jock.

Now I've not yet tried the two razors pbrmhl considers his best and that he ranks ahead of the Tech. Those are the PAA DOC Evo in stainless and the Charcoal Goods Level 3 open comb. He considers the CGL3 best of the bunch.

When all is said and done (in other words, when I've had a turn with each), I may or may not agree. He and I have already discovered that I like long handles and he likes short ones. Everyone's preferences are different. It's hard to imagine anything better than the Tech (for me) but then I used that Futur for over six years due to a lack of information and imagination. Wouldn't want to make that mistake again. Nor would I want to forgo a rotation.

If things were to end where they are right now, I'd probably have a rotation of four as follows:

1. Ikon Tech
2. 2011 R41
3. Fatip Grande
4. MMOC (which might give way every now and again for the 1914 Ever-Ready)

But the Tech would be there every day to serve as my superstar closer, my Mariana Rivera if you will.

Would be super happy, however, if other razors matched or surpassed it, in which case perhaps one or more of the others might be demoted to bench service (or get placed on waivers) and the Tech might earn a day off from time to time.

Hey, thanks for reading. Happy shaving!
View attachment 924430

Great write-up! You must have had some schooling along the way where writing skills were emphasized...

 

[Parallax]

Great write-up! You must have had some schooling along the way where writing skills were emphasized...

Thanks Scott. Huge compliment indeed coming from a fellow member of the Bar.

 

[Esox]

After working the Fatip to get as good a shave as possible (which required not all that much effort and produced a very nice result) and the R41 on the other side (which required significantly more effort -- which I find odd given that the head dimensions of the R41 and the Fatip are similar)

The Fatip has more baseplate support so its an easier shave. The R41 is a slower more cautious shave.

Baseplate support equates to rigidity. Rigidity equates to smoothness and security, which is why I thought you might find it boring haha.

I'm not sure which angle(s) you used it with, shallow or steep, but the 'chatter' you mention is most likely from the very edge of the blade deflecting as it cuts. Adjusting the angle will stop that. If I use mine steep or even at a neutral angle I have the same issue. I can even hear a tiny 'ping' as it springs back to shape after cutting if I shave slowly enough.

See the posts below;

To use the same picture again, and I'm sure Dovo doesnt mind, but the issue with a lack of base plate support I'm referring too is shown, sloppily, by the green arc from the edge of the blade to a point some distance back and the direction of blade flex.

When the blade edge encounters heavy, coarse and/or dense growth, it's my belief that the blade can flex minutely somewhere along that unsupported edge. The blade edge digging down into the skin as it tries to cut, increasing the force against the blade edge, causing an arc in the blade. Thats creating spring pressure in the blade. Its actually what is referred to as 'spring wrap'.

When the edge manages to cut through the dense stubble or the pressure is lessened slightly, the energy stored in the arc of blade flex is released, and you have irritation and/or a weeper.

If the base plate offers enough support via a wide enough bearing surface extending close enough to the edge of the blade such as a NEW SC,

that amount of flex cannot be imparted too the blade. However, as thin and flexible as DE blades are, even the edge of a blade securely clamped down as in that NEW SC can still flex, visibly if you try to with the end of a paper clip. The force required to impart that flex is far greater than I would assume can be encountered while shaving.

The result is a smoother and more comfortable shave with far less chance of weepers and irritation.

I believe this is why so many people that use less rigid designs have such issues shaving ATG. Blade choice can mitigate that issue to a point. A sharper blade such as Feather, may very well give a smoother shave than say a Derby Extra, as the sharper edge is more easily able to cut through the dense stubble it contacts.

One other aspect along this same theory is 'mechanical advantage'. The more rigid the blade the less mechanical advantage the head design, geometry and blade can offer. This is magnified by razors with less gap such as the Fatip OC heads.

Now with my use of the R41;

I believe it can happen, and does in fact when I use less rigid designs such as the R41.

The blade pushes against the cap as you say, but if enough resistance is met, the flex happens at the arc of the unsupported section of the blade.

The Squiggly Green Line.

As you shave, the blade meets varying resistance. Depending on the resistance met, something has to give. In unsupported designs, once the right level of resistance is met, the blade can and will flex. The result is a harsher shave and most likely weepers.

Adjusting shaving angle can limit that, but it depends on ones own hair type, density and the force applied to make the blade cut.

The design geometry of the R41 and the neutral design angle, combined with the ample blade exposure allows me to find an angle to limit that, but it still happens. This is why I'll never be able to use the R41 first pass ATG at 48 hours growth. The blade is simply not supported enough.

You said before that if you tried shaving first pass ATG you'll rip your face off. That would come from blade flex as quoted above. As the blade encounters resistance, stubble, that energy loads up and can cause the blade to flex storing that energy. When it cuts the hair that pressure is released. Thats what you're feeling. Try adjusting the angle with the Fatip until you dont feel that and with the right blade you'll also hear very little, even in a silent room, but the stubble will be gone. As soon as you can hold that angle and shave confidently, try shaving directly ATG first pass. You'll see how easy it is. If you end up enjoying that type of shave, which is much quicker and easier on your skin, the iKon Tech and R41 wont hold a candle to the Fatip. Shaving like that without baseplate support is impossible for me. This is why the MMOC does it even easier. The thicker blades do not flex at all and it just wipes the stubble off with the lather.

 

[Somnos]

Congratulations on the gold plated Fatip Grande Mk1! I'm totally jealous of it. No matter how many Fatips I collect, and all the Fatip Mk1's I own, I will never have a gold plated Fatip. My wife would hit the roof. She would say something like, "What are you going to shave with that King Butt". I will take vicarious pleasure in the fact you obtained one. I did get away with buying the Fatip Piccolo Special Edition, but then only the baseplate is gold. I'm not pushing it any further.

King Butt...LOL...oh my, I sense Mrs Somnos queuing up a new handle for me...LOL

 

[Capisco Capisce]

I have only one word, for this thread: BOSC

 

[Parallax]

The Fatip has more baseplate support so its an easier shave. The R41 is a slower more cautious shave.

Baseplate support equates to rigidity. Rigidity equates to smoothness and security, which is why I thought you might find it boring haha.

I'm not sure which angle(s) you used it with, shallow or steep, but the 'chatter' you mention is most likely from the very edge of the blade deflecting as it cuts. Adjusting the angle will stop that. If I use mine steep or even at a neutral angle I have the same issue. I can even hear a tiny 'ping' as it springs back to shape after cutting if I shave slowly enough.

See the posts below;



Now with my use of the R41;




You said before that if you tried shaving first pass ATG you'll rip your face off. That would come from blade flex as quoted above. As the blade encounters resistance, stubble, that energy loads up and can cause the blade to flex storing that energy. When it cuts the hair that pressure is released. Thats what you're feeling. Try adjusting the angle with the Fatip until you dont feel that and with the right blade you'll also hear very little, even in a silent room, but the stubble will be gone. As soon as you can hold that angle and shave confidently, try shaving directly ATG first pass. You'll see how easy it is. If you end up enjoying that type of shave, which is much quicker and easier on your skin, the iKon Tech and R41 wont hold a candle to the Fatip. Shaving like that without baseplate support is impossible for me. This is why the MMOC does it even easier. The thicker blades do not flex at all and it just wipes the stubble off with the lather.

Appreciate the feedback, Mike. Funny how we're all so different though. I like the blade chatter. I shave ATG with no problem as long as I go WTG first. When I made the "rip my face off" comment it was with regard to trying to go ATG on the first pass (as is Scott's habit).

I did try the technique you mention. With each razor, I test various angles including riding on the head. I agree the razor shaves smoothest that way. But it's not a style that I find appealing. With a SE it's fine. I mean, with an SE it's the only way one can shave and the razor is designed to work that way. I prefer the more conventional angle of a DE, which makes it easier to adjust on the run. At least to date. Perhaps as I get more used to the SE, I'll get more adept with that style.

The one thing I have trouble believing is that there's any way to make the Fatip shave closer than the Ikon. The Fatip held its own against the 2011 R41. That says a lot. But the Tech is, for me, a cut above (or rather below, as in closest to the skin). I suppose it's possible that technique is part of what makes one razor better for one guy and another for someone else. Since I'm just one person I can only report my truth. In my world the IT is on top (so far). In yours it's the Fatip or the MMOC. For Scott it's the CGL3-OC. Different strokes and all.

FWIW, Mike, if this razor were still available with the V1 head for $25 or $30, I'd be praising it up one side and down the other. As I did with the Fendrihan Mark-I, which last I checked was very much available for $25. Not sure why manufacturers insist on dumbing down their best razors. They sure do though. Even the Gillettes got more mild over time.

 

[Parallax]

I have only one word, for this thread: BOSC

With that in mind, tomorrow's match is Karve with the F plate vs. Blackland Dart (with the IT batting cleanup). So we're moving up a notch to the C-note razors. Guess one could call this morning's lineup the L-note R41 against the triple-X Fatip.

 

[Capisco Capisce]

With that in mind, tomorrow's match is Karve with the F plate vs. Blackland Dart (with the IT batting cleanup). So we're moving up a notch to the C-note razors. Guess one could call this morning's lineup the L-note R41 against the triple-X Fatip.

I have a 3" Karve D/F I've yet to try. It's in my queue. It's a beautiful and very nicely weighted piece. I just wish it was a polished finish.

BTW, that was an excellent review earlier.

 

[Parallax]

I have a 3" Karve D/F I've yet to try. It's in my queue. It's a beautiful and very nicely weighted piece. I just wish it was a polished finish.

BTW, that was an excellent review earlier.

Thanks.

 

[Parallax]

Today I had the privilege of shaving with some very fine razors.

For your consideration, the Karve running an F plate vs. the Blackland Dart (with Ikon Tech in reserve).

All three of these razors have a nice build quality. Particularly the Karve and the Dart, which is fitting given their price points. Each is substantial, attractive and nicely balanced. I love the stainless steel of the Dart and also the unadorned brass of the Karve. Their styles are quite different but each has real style. This was my first chance to try an upper tier DE razors and it was eye opening. Didn't realize I'd like it so much.

In terms of performance, they're both excellent shavers. Ran the Karve on one side and the Dart on the other. Both give a close but smooth shave. The Karve offers a bit more feedback but neither was the least bit painful or difficult to control. The Karve with the F plate also shaved a bit closer. Each of these razors responded to the use of differing blade angles. Each shaved closest when run just off their caps (not sure if that's called steep or shallow -- but you get the idea). They also shaved well in a more conventional orientation but it was when held like an SE that each really shined. The result was more than satisfying.

I enjoyed them each more than yesterday's 2011 R41 or Fatip Grande. The R41 feels like something that came off an assembly line and, while the Grande is undeniably attractive, its beauty is rather delicate. Don't get me wrong; it's a solidly built razor and outstanding value that would last a long time, but it's nevertheless rather light weight compared to the Dart and the Karve. The Dart and the Karve feel like men's razors. Particularly the Karve. The Dart feels like something designed for a scientist on a space station whereas the Karve feels like something designed for Indiana Jones.

Since I put down the Futur and began looking at possibilities, I've been noting how there are a lot of razors that can produce a damn fine shave. Some are simply more enjoyable than others. Each of these razors has that "it" quality which is hard to put into words but makes them fun to use. Each has a personality. Of course this is super personal and the only way to know if these razors would be appealing to you is to try them. As for me, would love to add both to my rotation. The question is whether I love them enough to pay the kind of money required to obtain one of my own. (My wife would give me her blessing but I feel bad about such indulgence when she's the kind of person who spends nothing on herself and takes great joy in giving to others.)

As much as I enjoyed both of these razors, when they had done their thing, I ran the Ikon Tech to achieve that level of closeness that neither of these razors can match. As excellent as they are, the Tech is still in a league of its own in terms of performance. I say this despite having crossed paths today with a fellow on the internet whom I'm pretty sure is Greg Khan. Was a strange and unpleasant experience. I'll leave it at that. But I'd be dishonest if I allowed that to color my judgment. The Tech remains number 1 in my den when it comes to performance. And that's the most important thing in my book.

So glad I was able to purchase a Tech at a reasonable price. If I had to pay a lot more, I'd consider it. Even though the build quality is aluminum, the design is that good. Besides which aluminum may not be stainless steel or brass but it's not Zamak either. With reasonable care, it should last a long time. But before spending a lot more than the retail price (which at $70 including a bulldog or OSS handle seemed fair), I'd want to try the Charcoal Goods Level 3 Open Comb and see if it matches or exceeds the performance of the Tech. Though there's a waiting list, it is still available and I'm told it combines performance with style and incredible build quality. Look forward to taking one for a spin.

 

[Aziraphale]

Okay so how does all this stack up against your Futur where the stop is gone and you can adjust it well beyond it's most aggressive setting?

 

[Parallax]

Okay so how does all this stack up against your Futur where the stop is gone and you can adjust it well beyond it's most aggressive setting?

I've realized that the Futur turned up to 18 is essentially a devette and so one can shave super close with it. For many years I found the Futur quite satisfying and maybe it's just that I'm burned out, but at this point I have no desire to pull that ugly thing out of my drawer. Were I to run it again, I'd no doubt confront the reality that it has trouble reaching under the nose and into recesses. Running at 6, I'd learned to take it up under my nose just fine. Could probably do so at 18 too. Just have to be careful.

The Futur served me well. Gave very close shaves with no irritation. For a long time, I enjoyed the look and feel of it. Particularly its heft. On those rare occasions when I cut myself, sometimes there was quite a lot of blood. I can remember bleeding for 20 minutes but only once or twice. I can remember not being able to get out of the shower because I didn't want to stain the bathmat or the tile but almost never across 6+ years. Also rare, but a bit less so (perhaps once a month), were times when a cut made me late getting to work because I couldn't get dressed until it was under control. (It's worth noting that I've not cut myself once with any of these other razors. Never got razor rash with the Futur and not getting it now either. Think I'm just lucky to have a tough hide.)

I'm finding these new razors way more satisfying than the Futur. I like the feel and the feedback of the IST way more than the Merkur. And I like the feel of the two others I ran this morning just as much, albeit in different ways.

Perhaps in time I can come back to the Futur with fresh eyes. I don't think that day will arrive anytime soon.

 

[pbrmhl]

Great review of the Karve and Dart, Roy. I used my Ikon Tech today for the first time in a long time, and was reminded of the exact experience you describe--there are few razors like it and, though the Karve and Dart are great razors, they are not the same as an Ikon Tech. I encourage you to give the Dart, in particular, another chance, however, as I find I can get really great shaves with that razor. Not a Tech, but pretty close.

 

[Parallax]

Great review of the Karve and Dart, Roy. I used my Ikon Tech today for the first time in a long time, and was reminded of the exact experience you describe--there are few razors like it and, though the Karve and Dart are great razors, they are not the same as an Ikon Tech. I encourage you to give the Dart, in particular, another chance, however, as I find I can get really great shaves with that razor. Not a Tech, but pretty close.

I plan on using both the Dart and the Karve again. Not so much to improve but simply because they're wonderful razors that I want to use some more before sending them home. I appreciate that you're good with that.

 

[pbrmhl]

I plan on using both the Dart and the Karve again. Not so much to improve but simply because they're wonderful razors that I want to use some more before sending them home. I appreciate that you're good with that.

Take your time, my friend!

 

[Parallax]

Take your time, my friend!

Thank you, Scott. Much obliged!

 

[Capisco Capisce]

The R41 feels like something that came off an assembly line

Because it did!

But a better handle could cure much of that, I think. I've heard of filling the OEM handle with shot or BB's (with a bit of epoxy), and I believe that would likely work. If the Rose Gold handle were solid and hefty, the razor would seem like a work of art in my opinion.

and, while the Grande is undeniably attractive, its beauty is rather delicate. Don't get me wrong; it's a solidly built razor and outstanding value that would last a long time, but it's nevertheless rather light weight compared to the Dart and the Karve.

The Grande's head is solid brass, like the Karve, and is actually quite dense and robust. Its shortfall is that hollow handle, that to me feels cheap. As with the R41, I strongly suspect a good handle would change quite a bit. In comparison to the Grande, as diminutive as my Piccolo is with a really short & thin handle, the whole thing is made of solid brass and feels nicely substantial, which gives it a general feeling of robust quality. Moreso than a Grande. Which is why I prefer it to the Grande.

Unfortunately for the Grande, due to Fatip's unique thread, handle replacement is hit & miss. Mostly miss.

The Dart and the Karve feel like men's razors. Particularly the Karve. The Dart feels like something designed for a scientist on a space station whereas the Karve feels like something designed for Indiana Jones.

I have not yet used my Karve, but I have handled it a bit. In it's 3" incarnation (I like short handles), it seems very nicely balanced. Solid & hefty. Kinda' like a Piccolo on steroids. Appropriately, since they're both entirely solid brass.

 

[CJB3]

Very cool. As you know I just ordered a MK 1 too. Congrats!

 

[Esox]

Each shaved closest when run just off their caps (not sure if that's called steep or shallow -- but you get the idea).

Cap riding is shallow. Comb or guard riding is steep. Riding both equally is neutral.

I'm with you in regards to weight. I find my Grande pretty substantial, Brass is heavier than stainless, but I'm coming from over a years experience with vintage Gillettes which are far lighter than my Grande.

My Grande vs my Gillette Single Ring.

Thats a considerable difference.

You're use to the Merkur Futur and that razor is a handful at 135g. The Blackland Dart is 99.5g. The Karve with the 3" handle is 110g. Compared to those razors, the Grande is a lightweight and the vintage Gillette 3 piece razors more like flyweights lol.

Despite the weight however, I'll bet you enjoy the PAA BOCS if thats the one you mentioned anyway. At 18g its very light, but it also has a lot of blade exposure.

 

[Parallax]

Because it did!

But a better handle could cure much of that, I think. I've heard of filling the OEM handle with shot or BB's (with a bit of epoxy), and I believe that would likely work. If the Rose Gold handle were solid and hefty, the razor would seem like a work of art in my opinion.

The Grande's head is solid brass, like the Karve, and is actually quite dense and robust. Its shortfall is that hollow handle, that to me feels cheap. As with the R41, I strongly suspect a good handle would change quite a bit. In comparison to the Grande, as diminutive as my Piccolo is with a really short & thin handle, the whole thing is made of solid brass and feels nicely substantial, which gives it a general feeling of robust quality. Moreso than a Grande. Which is why I prefer it to the Grande.

Unfortunately for the Grande, due to Fatip's unique thread, handle replacement is hit & miss. Mostly miss.

I have not yet used my Karve, but I have handled it a bit. In it's 3" incarnation (I like short handles), it seems very nicely balanced. Solid & hefty. Kinda' like a Piccolo on steroids. Appropriately, since they're both entirely solid brass.

Really good point about the Fatip handle. That is why it feels dainty. The head is hefty enough.