I like where your head's at.
The Feminization of Alcohol: A Diatribe
- Thread starter LinuxMintyFresh
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I like where your head's at.
How so? I sort of get his point with flavored vodka, but fruity beers? I hate to burst your bubble here fellas, but mankind has been brewing fruit beer for centuries.
I will say, I did not read any of the comments to this post, only the post itself and I must concur. I am 32 and am shocked at the number of froo-froo drinks that are acceptable. I am floored that when I order a whiskey straight up I have to explain I just want whiskey, no coke, no ice, just whiskey... and not in a shot glass darnitt!!! Likewise, I have to ask them politely not to chill my tequila shot, and please do not add salt or a lime, I don't want/need it. I like the way liquor tastes, does that make me old fashioned? Certainly not!! I wonder how much this trend has to do with the fact that adolescent males are drinking at an earlier age and being introduced to "girlier" drinks which taints them in the long run. Hey I like a sip of my wife's strawberry margarita now and then, but I like a dirty martini as my drink of choice. Here, here!!!!
Blue Moon is an excellent beer for a variety of reasons.
1) Its a mass produceded beer that actually has good flavor
2) It can be a gateway for others to try a different kind of beer other than Coors Lite or Bud Light
3) it's something different than Corona and that's a good thing
4) it can be enjoyed year round unlike afformentioned Corona
5) Many people believe it or not are unfamiliar with how Blue Moon can be enjoyed optimally because they associate fruiting the beer with corona, so this opens them up to other possibilities
6) Tell me Franzikahner isn't a good beer. You can fruit that too to bring out the flavor
Either way, the whole idea of manliness is askewed.
Is James Bond not manly cause the way he drinks his martinis?
To each their own
1) Its a mass produceded beer that actually has good flavor
2) It can be a gateway for others to try a different kind of beer other than Coors Lite or Bud Light
3) it's something different than Corona and that's a good thing
4) it can be enjoyed year round unlike afformentioned Corona
5) Many people believe it or not are unfamiliar with how Blue Moon can be enjoyed optimally because they associate fruiting the beer with corona, so this opens them up to other possibilities
6) Tell me Franzikahner isn't a good beer. You can fruit that too to bring out the flavor
Either way, the whole idea of manliness is askewed.
Is James Bond not manly cause the way he drinks his martinis?
To each their own
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No, Bond is even more manly; manly in terms of having a certain degree of sophistication, which in a woman is also admirable even if we leave out the gender distinct phrasing. This is all because he understands what it is that makes a drink a good one, or at least what he's drinking and why.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc7n7yyXWsU[/YOUTUBE]
I read the OP, and I see where you're coming from. However, if I look in my reprint of Esquire's Handbook for Hosts, I see a lot of drinks that, according to this thread, shouldn't exist back then.
Every generation thinks it was better "back then," to some degree. Alcohol isn't being feminized any more than it was 60 years ago. Just look in your local ABC store. There's the fruity shelf, but there's also a healthy stock of "manly" spirits.
What you're possibly confusing here is the actual trend of commercial ads to define what "manly" is by pitching their product. Axe, Hardee's, et cetera. Even Mitchum deodorant did a "Mitchum Man" campaign, putting cliche (and somewhat insulting) sayings on their deodorant sticks. I almost stopped buying because I apparently wasn't a "Mitchum Man," according to the campaign slogans. Same issue with Hardee's. I can cook for myself and didn't get turned on watching Paris Hilton dry-hump a cheeseburger.
Anyway, I would say that the preoccupation with "manly" stuff is more of a perspective issue. I prefer a Manhattan over a lot of the stuff college kids order in bars around here, but I'm not offended that a guy orders a fruit-tini. I am offended, however, when a guy tries to be "manly" and orders a drink that tastes awful to him but he drinks it anyway so he "looks like a man."
edit: Three cheers for the Blue Moon, and a slice of orange in the bottom of the glass. Call me fruity, I don't care.
Every generation thinks it was better "back then," to some degree. Alcohol isn't being feminized any more than it was 60 years ago. Just look in your local ABC store. There's the fruity shelf, but there's also a healthy stock of "manly" spirits.
What you're possibly confusing here is the actual trend of commercial ads to define what "manly" is by pitching their product. Axe, Hardee's, et cetera. Even Mitchum deodorant did a "Mitchum Man" campaign, putting cliche (and somewhat insulting) sayings on their deodorant sticks. I almost stopped buying because I apparently wasn't a "Mitchum Man," according to the campaign slogans. Same issue with Hardee's. I can cook for myself and didn't get turned on watching Paris Hilton dry-hump a cheeseburger.
Anyway, I would say that the preoccupation with "manly" stuff is more of a perspective issue. I prefer a Manhattan over a lot of the stuff college kids order in bars around here, but I'm not offended that a guy orders a fruit-tini. I am offended, however, when a guy tries to be "manly" and orders a drink that tastes awful to him but he drinks it anyway so he "looks like a man."
edit: Three cheers for the Blue Moon, and a slice of orange in the bottom of the glass. Call me fruity, I don't care.
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V
VR6ofpain
What is funny about this is Zima is no longer in production. Apparently people did not drink it.
I personally enjoy myself a nice bourbon straight up. Unfortunately it seems most of my friends can't agree.
G
gone down south
Not sure where the OP is based, but in most large and medium sized cities there's a huge movement of support for traditional cocktails and drinks. People are paying premium prices in many places to experience high quality ingredients properly mixed and presented. This is kind of happening below the pop-culture radar, so you won't see it advertised on TV or discussed much, but if you open up the local alternative weekly odds are pretty good there'll be an ad somewhere in there for a bar or lounge specializing in high quality cocktails.
Indeed, The Atlantic has featured articles about bars that focus on quality ingredients and sometimes don't even feature a menu. The bartenders are like pharmacists. Hell, I even read one review of a bar that had a full-time position for ice. The ice person would carve/cut/shave the appropriate type of ice for a given drink.
I'm glad I don't associate the liquid in my glass with my gender or fulfillment of that gender's stereotypes and mythologies.
That said, I suspect the HUGE amounts of sugar most people eat in their food (starting from a very early age--the research on the effects of this is terrifying!) have something of a desensitizing effect. I like an Ardbeg neat, but most people don't. If they did, "froo-froo" drinks would be a lot less popular and we wouldn't be seeing such a proliferation of them. There's no accounting for taste!
(Edit a few days later: Mmmmm, this Campari Orange is deeeeee-licious)
That said, I suspect the HUGE amounts of sugar most people eat in their food (starting from a very early age--the research on the effects of this is terrifying!) have something of a desensitizing effect. I like an Ardbeg neat, but most people don't. If they did, "froo-froo" drinks would be a lot less popular and we wouldn't be seeing such a proliferation of them. There's no accounting for taste!
(Edit a few days later: Mmmmm, this Campari Orange is deeeeee-licious)
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+1.
(Now that I've reaffirmed my masculinity as represented by my occasional beverage
, I'm off to shave with my Nancy Boy shaving cream!)
Not sure that I totally agree with the main post. There are a lot of froo-froo drinks around, but I also think we have never had it so good with the proliferation of darn good microbrewers/brewpubs sprouting up all over the place. And the availability and variety of single malts has just exploded.
Of course, this may just be perception as I tend to hang around with others who appreciate this (belong to CAMRA, plus a couple of Single Malt clubs and am one of the organizers of the Victoria Whisky Festival.)
Of course, this may just be perception as I tend to hang around with others who appreciate this (belong to CAMRA, plus a couple of Single Malt clubs and am one of the organizers of the Victoria Whisky Festival.)
It's a good time to be a beer drinker. I grew up and went to college in Oregon as the NW craft brew boom was taking off, and my rural Oregon hometown bars have gone from Bud and co., and maybe Guinness on tap, to rows of taps with plenty of options, including a range of locally-produced beers that are really quite good. I'm going out today to have lunch at a place with dozens of beers on tap, and the turnover to justify them. I'm better off on that count than my father or grandfather could ever have imagined.
At home, I make my own beer (and mead and wine and cider). I do mostly English-style Bitters, but I shake it up as I choose. When I drink liquor, which doesn't happen often, I sip bourbon (unmixed, without ice).
As for the frufru, I do see it, but my issues have been more with tastes modified by mass production. Here's the example:
I tended bar at a Caribbean restaurant in Texas where liquor was not a big part of our business. I took a couple of tables, and had a couple of stools, but mostly I poured wine, popped open Red Stripes, and made the occasional Pina Colada. We had a nice setup overall, but it was a trim and slim operation, and we didn't use premade mixers--we had all the classic ingredients and implements, and a Mr. Boston, and that's how I learned the business. Problem was, people often didn't know what they were ordering, because the classic vs. mixer versions were so different. I specifically remember one time when I got into a (very polite) argument with one young woman who was very angry with me for screwing up her whiskey sour. The problem was that she wanted whiskey and sour mix, and didn't recognize the classic whiskey sour. I had to show her the recipe, and remix it for her to demonstrate that it was, in fact, a whiskey sour ... and still she was huffy about it. That was the worst example, but not the only one.
Sugary mixes are convenient, but so many don't recognize that they aren't the end-all be-all of mixology. That's what I find a little disturbing. Drink what you like, but try to know what goes in it, and maybe, now and again, give the flavored sugar mixer a pass ...
Ryan
At home, I make my own beer (and mead and wine and cider). I do mostly English-style Bitters, but I shake it up as I choose. When I drink liquor, which doesn't happen often, I sip bourbon (unmixed, without ice).
As for the frufru, I do see it, but my issues have been more with tastes modified by mass production. Here's the example:
I tended bar at a Caribbean restaurant in Texas where liquor was not a big part of our business. I took a couple of tables, and had a couple of stools, but mostly I poured wine, popped open Red Stripes, and made the occasional Pina Colada. We had a nice setup overall, but it was a trim and slim operation, and we didn't use premade mixers--we had all the classic ingredients and implements, and a Mr. Boston, and that's how I learned the business. Problem was, people often didn't know what they were ordering, because the classic vs. mixer versions were so different. I specifically remember one time when I got into a (very polite) argument with one young woman who was very angry with me for screwing up her whiskey sour. The problem was that she wanted whiskey and sour mix, and didn't recognize the classic whiskey sour. I had to show her the recipe, and remix it for her to demonstrate that it was, in fact, a whiskey sour ... and still she was huffy about it. That was the worst example, but not the only one.
Sugary mixes are convenient, but so many don't recognize that they aren't the end-all be-all of mixology. That's what I find a little disturbing. Drink what you like, but try to know what goes in it, and maybe, now and again, give the flavored sugar mixer a pass ...
Ryan
The bottom line is that the human body doesn't enjoy having high strength alcohol poured into it. When you take a sip of straight whisky, it irritates all the tissue it comes into contact with, creating a burning sensation, if you take a larger gulp is triggers your gag reflex because your body recognizes that it is a poison.
It isn't natural to enjoy that. It's something you kind of force or teach yourself to enjoy, or, and I think this is true in a lot of cases, you just suck it up and drink it for social expectations or reasons - ie. whisky is a man's drink.
People like the effects of alcohol, but not the sensation of actually consuming it. When you mix it with a lot of sugar, you dull that sensation significantly.
The importance people place in tradition is very, very low today vs. the past, and now with mass market economies, very different choices get offered to almost everyone. Someone pushed sugary, easy to drink alcoholic beverages, and the market responded, and so they have stolen a big market share from traditional spirits.
It isn't natural to enjoy that. It's something you kind of force or teach yourself to enjoy, or, and I think this is true in a lot of cases, you just suck it up and drink it for social expectations or reasons - ie. whisky is a man's drink.
People like the effects of alcohol, but not the sensation of actually consuming it. When you mix it with a lot of sugar, you dull that sensation significantly.
The importance people place in tradition is very, very low today vs. the past, and now with mass market economies, very different choices get offered to almost everyone. Someone pushed sugary, easy to drink alcoholic beverages, and the market responded, and so they have stolen a big market share from traditional spirits.
(Now that I've reaffirmed my masculinity as represented by my occasional beverage
I agree with everything Rob says. Example: the bar that I visit on a regular basis has three taps and for many years, out of one of those taps came a classic Dutch Pilsener called 'Brand', carefully crafted for over a century in our southernmost province of Limburg. Just about one year ago they stopped selling it from the tap for the simple reason that about 95% of all the beer ordered came from the other two taps. This beer is a cheapish beer with hardly any flavor called 'Amstel', brewed by Heineken on a large scale. Guess what, the Brand beer from that one tap was replaced with Amstel as well. So, if I want a draft beer these days, all they offer is a Amstel from one of these three taps. I still visit that place a lot to meet friends and have some good conversations and I even drink the Amstel. Still, I think it is shame that good a quality beer was replaced with stuff that the 'masses' demand, mostly just to get drunk without any appreciation for quality. That, in my opinion, is a sad thing.
Maybe "feminization" is an inappropriate term here. Perhaps it should be "dumb-it-down-ization".
hahaha...irony
I absolutely agree on the Blue Moon comment. Give me a Paulaner Hefe any day and I will be gratefull, but Blue Moon is like drinking watered down perfume. Now, I do like to see the movement toward something with a little more substance than the mass market American lagers, and I hope it continues as it did for me, into some true beer appreciation. And there is nothing worse than that feeling when you see your waiter coming with some glass with various fruits and umbrelas, etc and realize they are bringing the drink to you.
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