Tallow vs. Glycerin: Which Do You Prefer, and Why?

[Nick Danger]

As a newcomer to using shaving soaps, I'm very curious about the reasons why some guys prefer tallow and others prefer glycerin soaps.

Let's remove the variable of vegetarian / vegan reasons for not using tallow. I'm more interested in opinions about the functional differences between the two types of soaps.

Which do you prefer: tallow or glycerin soaps? Why?

Nick

 

[cryhavoc]

Neither, I like a soap that works with my skin. I have a collection of tallow, veggie and melt and pour glycerin soaps that I found through trial and error created a rich protective lather for me. You owe to yourself to try them and decide which works best for you.

 

[rockviper]

I have both and guess what? Both work for me.
A good soap is a good soap, and a crappy one is a crappy one.

 

[oldtrout]

I do not have a preference, the soap's performance is my primary concern.

 

[Dusty1]

Seems as though all my favorite soaps are Tallow based.

 

[BrianM]

Tallow, but they seem harder to lather. Lather seems more "cushiony" but could all be in my head.

 

[Kevan]

I have both and guess what? Both work for me.
A good soap is a good soap, and a crappy one is a crappy one.

This is my experience. When I first started I drank the tallow-only kool-aid too, but years on, I came to realize that it was about formulation rather than ingredients. I used to think that tallow soaps lathered richer until I tried veggie soaps that were just as good...namely the Franco and German ones and a few of the UK-made ones. Not all tallow soaps are as nice as Tabac, MWF, and old-formula AOS. Arko for example lathers great but is a bit harsh and leaves my face dry. D.R. Harris tingles and burns a bit on the third pass and leaves my face a little red. Cella gave me zits. And Williams? Don't forget the horror of Williams.

People who prefer tallow to the point of exclusion will do so regardless. I've always been interested in how they'd fare in a blind test; if they could pick out the tallow soap or not. I wish we could find a way to test that.

 

[njpaddy]

No real preference. It depends on the results. Until a couple of months ago most of my favorites happened to be tallow soaps, but the puck of Ogallala I recently finished performed every bit as good as my Harris soaps. I have to admit being surprised at that based on my previous experience with some other glycerin soaps. Just another case of YMMV.

 

[Greg1911]

Glycerin / Melt and Pours Let's get these out of the way.

A better question to ask may be "What performance characteristics do you prefer in a soap?"

I like thick, gooey, stable lather that has glide and cushion and I find good tallow based soaps give me a better mix of the characteristics that I want. I've tried (and still own many) of the highly touted veggie based soaps and they tend to be slick but not as protective.

PS - I don't give a rat's rectum about ease of lathering, lathering is stupid easy.

 

[Graybeard57]

I have both and guess what? Both work for me.
A good soap is a good soap, and a crappy one is a crappy one.

There are some gentlemen adamant about one or the other, but I use and like both.

 

[FL shaver]

Tallow: denser and more moisturizing (my best tallow soaps).

 

[Burnside]

I, myself personally, can not tell the difference between tallow and veg

 

[KW Driver]

Tallow: denser and more moisturizing (my best tallow soaps).

plus this:

I like thick, gooey, stable lather that has glide and cushion and I find good tallow based soaps give me a better mix of the characteristics that I want. I've tried (and still own many) of the highly touted veggie based soaps and they tend to be slick but not as protective.

PS - I don't give a rat's rectum about ease of lathering, lathering is stupid easy. [/QOUTE]

that's my position. I'll use others, but love the feel of the tallows best. both during and after.

 

[5savages]

I love tallow and veggie soaps (veggie soaps are a majority in my den), but I'm not a fan of the overly scented melt & pours. The 6 Mama Bear samples I had were all over the top with scent, some nauseatingly so. Ogallala Bay Rum soaps are overly scented as well, but I can put up with those a bit better, so I kept those (tossed the last 3 MB samples I had). Based on those two examples, I'm not in any hurry to get any more.

 

[mistercitizen]

I prefer both because there are a whole bunch of great tallow based AND glycerin based soaps out there..... I refuse to exclude one for the other.

Ben

 

[Songwind]

My "glycerin soap" use has been fairly limited, but I find them functional but uninspiring. On the other hand, some of my best soaps are tallow based. So between the two, I have a preference for tallow.

On the other hand, I also have non-tallow soaps that aren't the same high glycerin, meltable soaps that people mean when they say "glycerin soaps," and they are also very high on my list. Provence Sante, for example.

 

[Nick Danger]

Interesting responses. Thanks, everyone!

I started this thread because, as a shaving soap newbie, I had the idea that tallow soaps would be better for me. I haven't seen any glycerin soaps with lanolin or shea butter, for example. Of course, I can't claim to know the whole range of shaving soaps that are available. In my limited research, I've probably missed some great ones.

Tonight, however, I shaved with a glycerin soap for the first time and got excellent results. I used Kell's Ultra Aloe unscented. It might not have quite the moisturizing qualities of Mike's soap, but the slickness of the lather was terrific.

So it looks like I'll end up in the camp that uses both tallow and glycerin soaps. Apparently I'll be in good company.

Nick

 

[JBLA]

-- If you're not interested in a rambling tangent on soap, this comment can be safely skipped. --

TLR - There's less difference than you might think, so use the soap that works for you.

Just to be clear, if it hasn't been made so already, the world of shaving soap is pretty mixed, as there are vegetable oil based soaps that aren't tallow, but aren't heavily glycerin based either, and even the tallow and glycerin soaps are more than just tallow or glycerin (and some are both).

Tallow = soaps made (at least partially) from rendered beef fat. (Depending on the process used for making it, and the other oils added, this can be somewhat harsh, as in the industrial soap boiling process, the moisturizing glycerin is processed out.) It's interesting to see that you can run the gamut from Williams to Tabac, and find the first ingredient to be potassium stearate (stearic acid saponified via potassium hydroxide), and a variety of other ingredients including sodium cocoate (coconut oil saponified via sodium hydroxide), glycerin, etc., in addition to the sodium or potassium tallowate that is the hallmark of the tallow soap.

Ingredient lists here and here.

Glycerin = soaps made from glycerin (obviously), which is a "is a simple polyol compound. It is a colorless, odorless, viscous liquid that is widely used in pharmaceutical formulations. Glycerol has three hydroxyl groups that are responsible for its solubility in water and its hygroscopic nature." (Thanks Wikipedia.) Glycerin is often a byproduct of the industrial soapmaking process, and can be either animal or vegetable based, depending on what the fats/oils being processed were. (Often, since this is a byproduct of soapmaking, and awesome for moisturizing, other ingredients need to be added to give it more "soapy" characteristics (in terms of both lather and cleansing power, if you've ever worked on an old/dirty bicycle or car for an afternoon, and come in and tried to wash your hands with a glycerin soap, you'll know how laughably inadequate it is for cleaning).

Van Der Hagen Glycerin Shave Soap: Propylene Glycol, Sorbitol, Water, Sodium Stearate, Sodium Laureth Sulfate, Sodium Myristate, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate, Glycerin, Tocopherol (Vitamin E), Avena Sativa Kernal Extract (and) Phenoxyethanol (Oat Extract), Fragrance, Triethanolamine, FD&C Yellow #5, FD&C Blue #1, D&C Red #33. (from here)

Interesting, despite being called glycerin soap, its main ingredient is propylene glycol (which you may recognize from such products as antifreeze), but it's also got sodium stearate (stearic acid saponified with sodium hydroxide) as well as actual glycerin (coming in at no. 8 on the ingredient

Stearic acid is a handy base ingredient for shaving soap, as it allows you to ratchet up the hardness and creaminess of the bar with minimal effort.

Artisanal soapmakers often go for a less chemically intense glycerin soap, as shown by the ingredient list for Mama Bear's shaving soap - Coconut Oil, Palm Oil, Castor Oil, Safflower , Glycerine (kosher, of vegetable origin), Purified Water, Sodium Hydroxide (saponifying agent), Sorbitol (moisturizer), Sorbitan oleate (emulsifier), Soybean protein (conditioner), Wheat protein and fragrance either natural or synthetic.

This is a vegetable soap with 20% added glycerin, which combined with the glycerin left from the artisanal soapmaking process (generally speaking, most artisanal cold or hot process soapmakers don't process out the glycerin from their soap) should make for a pretty moisturizing bar. Instead of stearic acid, Mama Bear uses castor oil, which is super high in ricinoleic acid, to make the lather creamy, and coconut and palm oil to make the bar hard.

(Other soapmakers go for a straight melt and pour approach, by buying bulk glycerin soap base and adding scents and colors and other goodies, which can make a BEAUTIFUL soap, but this seems more like making candles than soap to me, and the ingredients often aren't ideal for a shaving soap.)

Then there are the less glycerin heavy regular vegetable soaps.

See, e.g. Martin De Candre, which has the following 5-6 ingredients: stearic acid, water, coconut acid, potassium hydroxide, glycerin, (fragrance).

Martin's really stripped it down to the basics. Stearic acid for a rich and creamy lather and hardness, coconut oil for a little body to the lather, potassium hydroxide to make a soap that's more water soluble, with zero sodium hydroxide, glycerin for its moisturizing properties, and optionally, fragrance.

The first 3 responses had it right.

 

[Nick Danger]

-- If you're not interested in a rambling tangent on soap, this comment can be safely skipped. --

Ah, but I was definitely interested in just this kind of informational post. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

I'm sure that you, and everyone else who said it, is right about just using whatever works. However, my overly-analytical personality always questions why things work the way they do, and if something else I haven't tried might work even better. You've shed a great deal of light on the subject of soaps for me, and hopefully, for others who are reading this thread.

I find it particularly interesting that Van Der Hagen contains sodium laureth sulfate, which is a detergent. That's not an ingredient I'm seeing in most shaving soaps, particularly the artisan brands like Mystic Waters, QCS or Mike's.

Nick

 

[JBLA]

Ah, but I was definitely interested in just this kind of informational post. Thank you for taking the time to write it.

You're very welcome!