Straight razors quickly become blunt, the steel is too soft, where is the manufacturing defect?

[Steve56]

@Steve56, don't shoot the messenger. I can prove nothing and you are in the same camp as me. We can only report on what we hear and read.

You are representing yourself as an engineer. Engineers have data and proof.

Do you have data and proof about the origin of the Titan steels? No one has a ‘secret steel’ in this age, that‘s BS.

I have offered my proof, they’re steels provided to a Chinese stamping and forming company.

 

[rbscebu]

You are representing yourself as an engineer. Engineers have data and proof.

Do you have data and proof about the origin of the Titan steels? No one has a ‘secret steel’ in this age, that‘s BS.

I have offered my proof, they’re steels provided to a Chinese stamping and forming company.

I made a statement as to what I have read in personal messages from Richard Luo, an executive with Titan.

ACRO Metal Products Ltd is a manufacturer of metal products, not a steel manufacturer. To the best of my knowledge, their steel is not supplied by Titan nor are they suppliers of steel to Titan. I have been told that Titan use steel that is made in Japan.

Acro Metal Products Ltd was established in 2003. Titan started making SRs in 1918.

Can I prove any of the above? No. Can I prove Ralf Aust makes all of his SRs himself? No. Can I prove ARKO is made in Turkey? No. They are things that I have read or heard of only.

 

[Steve56]

Fair enough, I understand your post.

I’ve been told that the steel is Chinese, marketed as Japanese. This might help folks

Fake Japanese Knives: More Deceptive Chinese Knife Scams/Brands Marketed as Japanese Which Is Like Dating in the 80s - Oishii Desu "It's Delicious"

As I wrote about in my previous article, if a person were to behave (with fake Japanese knives) this way when it comes to dating, they would end up on the MTV show Catfished. Except maybe culturally being deceptive is not frowned upon in China because even in the U.S. during the 80s, you would...

oishii-desu.com

Read it all, and you’ll recognize familiar things

 

[Steve56]

My apologies for the rant. I’m just tired of these razors being represented as Japanese steel with nothing but ad copy backing it up. I want a data sheet.

 

[rbscebu]

Fair enough, I understand your post.

I’ve been told that the steel is Chinese, marketed as Japanese. This might help folks

Fake Japanese Knives: More Deceptive Chinese Knife Scams/Brands Marketed as Japanese Which Is Like Dating in the 80s - Oishii Desu "It's Delicious"

As I wrote about in my previous article, if a person were to behave (with fake Japanese knives) this way when it comes to dating, they would end up on the MTV show Catfished. Except maybe culturally being deceptive is not frowned upon in China because even in the U.S. during the 80s, you would...

oishii-desu.com

Read it all, and you’ll recognize familiar things

Thank you and an interesting read. I will make no comment on that article as my comments may be considered inappropriate for the gentle folks who read B&B.

 

[rbscebu]

My apologies for the rant. I’m just tired of these razors being represented as Japanese steel with nothing but ad copy backing it up. I want a data sheet.

I have been raised and educated to never believe something is true just because it is written. That includes data sheets.

All I can do is take in as much information as I can and then form my own considered opinion on a matter. That option is never set in stone as later further information may necessitate a change.

 

[Steve56]

Thank you and an interesting read. I will make no comment on that article as my comments may be considered inappropriate for the gentle folks who read B&B.

Give me a real data sheet or product description from a recognized steel mill. No steel mill sells a product without an analysis.

Look, these are just gussied up Gold Dollars in fancy boxes. Prove me wrong!

 

[baertigeKaerntnerin]

Very interesting your experience with the ACRO T.H-70. But it is stainless steel, isnt it? As far a i know and experienced it has rough grain boundaries, it consists of very hard material and tends to chip on the grain boundaries, therefore i prefer carbon steel. But maybe there are no drawbacks in the realm of shaving, and as you say they tried to cope with it through special techniques in manufacturing. I suppose with my sharpening routine it would not be a problem to get those knifes sharp in no time.

I discovered that my engraving pen test is very conclusive, especially the fact that it gives a consistent result regardless if i test the back of the knife or in front of the edge. This means that the reason is soft steel, not any problems with getting to hot at grinding. Either wrong steel, or wrong hardening treatment.

I have 5 Solingen Knifes and 5 GDs and 2 cheapo's. I find the T.H-70 interesting tough, if i can get a hold of it, i will get one, just out of curiosity, not because i need it. Thank you very much rbscebu for that tip.

I think Titan is a good brand for inexpensive good RSOs, as it is GD, but GD has more bang for the buck undoubtedly.

Don't take attacks to personally rbscebu, i often just ignore them, no need to get excited about people who may be filling up our threads with more or less nonsense. But i agree to a bit, Titan is not very transparent when it comes to the kind of steel used.

 

[baertigeKaerntnerin]

Sharpening order:
First the diamond plate, coarse smooth leather, then 5 pastes (less would also be possible), car polish, smooth glossy leather, done.

Tips for the sharpening test: Hover the knife over the arm hair when it starts to grip, you are on the right track. Then simply put on beard stubble and pull it away if they cut without plucking, the knife could be ready, but that only shows the shave.

Tips for the burr: A work / construction site LED spotlight right above ones head is a good light source, small point from which the light runs out, then hold the knife in front of you, the cutting edge reflects the light source and then swing the knife until you discover the finest line of burr on the cutting edge. Even without a magnifying glass.

Another tip, for simpler sharpening: I grind the stabilizer off. It stands out a bit and can unfavorably lift the blade from e.g. the diamond plate if you guide the knife entirely over the plate / leather. Otherwise I don't change anything on the knife, the cutting geometry can remain as round as in the delivery state. Just have to work over the entire length of the edge evenly through a "swing" movement. Here is the stabilizer (red) that I ground down on all knives, which makes sharpening much easier.

Here you can see a Solinger, a GD66 with a sanded back, a GD66, a GD66 kept together with a bicycle hose, for safety. An EDC cutter knife for breaking the ice. Shaving soap as a stick and another soaked in water and let it dry in dog food bowl, to absorb the soap on the brush, it works perfectly. Then another diamond plate. Only the shaving brush is missing, I forgot about it.

Random:
By the way, the worst shaving instrument that I know is the Shavette, right after lighter and tweezers. So you can cut yourself easily, have a razor burn and pointy stubble's from the safety blade. I don't know any sensible use for it.

 

[rbscebu]

@baertigeKaerntnerin, I know that many may find honing a SR with a stabiliser difficult. This is particularly so with n00bies to the gentlemanly art. When I started, I didn't know that it was meant to be difficult, I just took more care to ensure that the stabiliser never road up onto the honing surface.

 

[H Brad Boonshaft]

“I used the old solingen for two month and i never stropped it whilst doing so. Its really a convenient way to shave, never hat such a good experience with any other kind of shaving.”

2 months of great shave, no stropping. Ok!

Jarrod, is that you, again?

 

[Wid]

Most of this thread makes no sense.

That's all folks

 

[baertigeKaerntnerin]

Most of us are raised by advertising and marketing, they are on earth because of the glitter or the money. Some of us are here because of science and knowledge and want to learn new interesting things.

I want to use that stuff as easy and quick as possible, no need for fancy stuff or extra difficulties. For me its really easy to shave like that, way easier and faster than any other method. Its perfect i feel great.

 

[Slash McCoy]

Give me a real data sheet or product description from a recognized steel mill. No steel mill sells a product without an analysis.

Look, these are just gussied up Gold Dollars in fancy boxes. Prove me wrong!

I can't tell you what is in the Titan's steel, but I can definitely tell you that they behave differently from a GD when honing. Most definitely not GDs. The cheapest model Titan is the most similar, and also is the most ergonomic. Hones nicely, shaves nicely. The others I don't care for. That doesn't mean they are junk, just that I find them unsuitable for myself.

As for the secret steel, any piece of steel can be analyzed by X-Ray Flourescence testing with a fairly high degree of accuracy. They can claim secrecy all they want. The fact is, anybody with enough interest can find out what exactly is in the alloy, and at least approximately how much of each element. Me, I don't care. If I want cheap, there are American vintage razors, and there are Gold Dollars. If I want higher quality, I will go for a bigger leap upwards than a Titan, anyway.

The OP's razor obviously is an RSO. A massive leap downward from even a GD. I don't have any problem with a GD dulling prematurely. If I did, I would cheerfully toss that razor. The OP's RSO is sold because people who don't know better, will buy it. The seller doesn't shave with one. He doesn't care about your shave, only your money. Get mad at him, and meh, he's cool with that. There are plenty more buyers out there who suffer from new razor sticker shock, and don't see why they shouldn't buy the cheaper razor vs the one costing maybe as much as two day's wages. Sellers prey on the unknowing, and benefit greatly from ignorance. It will always be so. Now, there are forums where wannabes can learn a bit, before taking the plunge and becoming newbies, or after the initial unguided plunge failed miserably.

 

[baertigeKaerntnerin]

Hi, there, tanks for your view. I dont get mad at the seller, i get mad if people try the ! best shaving method in the world and then get discouraged by a stupid product which claims to do the job. I tried the "Best Brand" some more times and have new findings. At first, the soft steel gets sharper than the harder steels, it is very well suited for normal hair, like head or beard of someone in puperty, it stays sharp when used for that. But as soon as it touches some wirelike normal mature Beard its completely dull in an instant. This is extremely interesting to experiment with. Also a hanging strop produces a little bit more of a resilient edge. Pure leather and other side loaded with middle to fine paste. Every now and then a few laps on the diamond keeps is able to be stropped again.

 

[baertigeKaerntnerin]

I have new insights, namely with the GD66, also known as the 3 dollar razor from China. I have shaved 10 times now, almost a month and I have to say, it keeps its sharpness just like the Solingen knife. It is still sharp enough to shave flawlessly with good technique.

I now assume that my sharpening technique is a bit too extensive. I'll try to minimize that. So with a hanging strop (in my case an old leather belt) with a smooth leather side and the other smooth side loaded with medium to medium to fine polishing paste and a few strokes on a fine diamond plate every know and then should actually be enough.

I'll give an update on that as well, but that could take a lot longer.

 

[baertigeKaerntnerin]

I was able to minimize my sharpening technique, I only have a leather belt now, on the "rough" side, which is still relatively smooth, or is really almost completely smooth, there is a medium-fine polishing paste put on it, about 20 strokes and then again on the blank side, so that I can keep the razor shaving ready in a short time. If it pulls too much, i sharpen it with the diamond plate, but not too much so that a burr appears again only a little bit so the belt can do its job again. So my shaving culture is fully developed and hopefully I can fight my nasty whiskers comfortably and pleasantly for a long time to come. I hope this helps one or the other to follow this path, I would have to roar and cry if I had to go back to electric razors or safety razor blades :-0

I now have a "Garantie" Solingen knife, that's quite a bit of a difference compared to the gold dollar, but both of them shave, and both do it equally well, but the Solingen knife simply has a much thinner blade, it's just fascinating what people used to do a long time ago have accomplished time. Also think of the Jaeger-LeCoultre Caliber 101 movement from 1930.

 

[Mitzie]

Since shaving with a SR I have become aware of the importance and necessity of good effective pre-shave prep' to soften and to shave my copper wire whiskers especially on areas of my chin and jaw. Currently I have been using an emulsifier oil (shea butter) which is a soluble oil and I must say it beats the more regular pre shave products in softening my whiskers

 

[Eastcoast30]

"I think whetstones are the worst method of sharpening."
"If it pulls too much, i sharpen it with the diamond plate ..."

You still have a long way to go. None of my razors ever pull at all. I go months without honing. And I am keeping my Shapton whetstones and my jnat stone, despite your thoughts on the subject.

 

[Eastcoast30]

I don't mean to be over critical. But sharpening with a diamond plate just seems wrong. I think you can get your razor "knife sharp" with a diamond plate, but not razor sharp. And yes, you can shave with a knife. But a razor made with good steel and properly honed should wipe hair away like a finger, with no pull at all.