Slip versus Cushion: finally I understand.

[Mad Man]

Took me 12 months but today, after reaching for the Proraso Green tub (old form) after a few months of Cella I finally get the difference.

Using Cella has allowed me to become, if not cavalier, then certainly a little less-than-precise in things like angle, pressure etc. So much so that today, whilst I reveled in the ability of the blade to slide through 3 days of stubble I found a couple of weepers where I usually don't get any - and the alum pass stung like crazy too.

Long story short? YMMV but the Proraso has the edge on slip - or the ability for the blade to glide along effortlessly but Cella gives me cushion - a modicum of protection. If I had to choose I'd go cushion over slip. And in no way am I disrespecting Cella - it's still my go-to soap but today, using something different, showed me some subtle nuances in performance that I hadn't previously been attuned to.

Only took me 12 months to figure it out...!

 

[VT_Hokie]

It's all about the slip and slickness.

 

[SliceOfLife]

I don't find any problem with Cella's slip. Frankly unless the soap is overloaded with leavening salts (Coconut, Myristate, Laurate), the burden of making a lather have slip is on the user. The potential is there, it simply requires a proper lathering process. Slip comes from having the right amount of water in the lather. If the lather isn't made right, it won't hold as much water. If you start it right but don't add enough water, the lather will be tacky. If you over-aerate the lather, you'll know because it will fail in every way imaginable. To be honest, if you read these forums a lot, you'll become a "slip-cynic". Most times people say a soap lacks slip it's because it's a soap that outperformed their expectations and they are hesitant to admit it. And most times when people praise a soaps slip it's to defend a soap that people find inferior but which the poster likes (We call this the Williams paradox... "Sure I have to lather upside down on the puck, in a centrifuge, with my brush attached to a power drill, but the slip is great!" ). The other example is just like all the brushes with 9 and 10's for density in the brush reviews. Someone's reviewing a product they like, they know "slip" is a good thing, so they exclaim proudly that "this soap has the best slip ever!!!!!1111!!!".

 

[Teddyboy]

I don't find any problem with Cella's slip. Frankly unless the soap is overloaded with leavening salts (Coconut, Myristate, Laurate), the burden of making a lather have slip is on the user. The potential is there, it simply requires a proper lathering process. Slip comes from having the right amount of water in the lather. If the lather isn't made right, it won't hold as much water. If you start it right but don't add enough water, the lather will be tacky. If you over-aerate the lather, you'll know because it will fail in every way imaginable. To be honest, if you read these forums a lot, you'll become a "slip-cynic". Most times people say a soap lacks slip it's because it's a soap that outperformed their expectations and they are hesitant to admit it. And most times when people praise a soaps slip it's to defend a soap that people find inferior but which the poster likes (We call this the Williams paradox... "Sure I have to lather upside down on the puck, in a centrifuge, with my brush attached to a power drill, but the slip is great!" ). The other example is just like all the brushes with 9 and 10's for density in the brush reviews. Someone's reviewing a product they like, they know "slip" is a good thing, so they exclaim proudly that "this soap has the best slip ever!!!!!1111!!!".

Leavening salts? Does this mean I cannot shave on Passover?

 

[JCinPA]

Actually, I can get a lather with just as much cushion (I'm assuming you mean density) out of Proraso or Cella. They are both great soaps, all around. I'm down to only using 4 soaps now, so I have a lot of mileage with all of them. Most soaps will give you more than you are probably getting out of them if you really spend the time to get to know them.

 

[SliceOfLife]

Leavening salts? Does this mean I cannot shave on Passover?

Salts that give the lather its volume. Too much of these salts tend to make the lather "explode" as people say, but it's very airy and it quickly dissolves when you add water to it.


And John has it right. There are guys who've only used one soap their whole lives who can pick up a far more popular soap and be thoroughly unimpressed.

 

[merkur59]

... There are guys who've only used one soap their whole lives who can pick up a far more popular soap and be thoroughly unimpressed.

An interesting observation.

Am trying to cut down on soaps and creams ever since I realised that the more acquainted I am with a soap or cream, the more impressed I am with it.

 

[Mad Man]

I don't find any problem with Cella's slip. Frankly unless the soap is overloaded with leavening salts (Coconut, Myristate, Laurate), the burden of making a lather have slip is on the user. The potential is there, it simply requires a proper lathering process. Slip comes from having the right amount of water in the lather. If the lather isn't made right, it won't hold as much water. If you start it right but don't add enough water, the lather will be tacky. If you over-aerate the lather, you'll know because it will fail in every way imaginable. To be honest, if you read these forums a lot, you'll become a "slip-cynic". Most times people say a soap lacks slip it's because it's a soap that outperformed their expectations and they
are hesitant to admit it. And most times when people praise a soaps slip it's to defend a soap that people find inferior but which the poster likes (We call this the Williams paradox... "Sure I have to lather upside down on the puck, in a centrifuge, with my brush attached to a power drill, but the slip is great!" ). The other example is just like all the brushes with 9 and 10's for density in the brush reviews. Someone's reviewing a product they like, they know "slip" is a good thing, so they exclaim proudly that "this soap has the best slip ever!!!!!1111!!!".

Thanks for the info Slice; whilst not understanding the finer details of leavening salts or "The Williams Paradox" I guess I was trying to share a reacquaintance with a soap I hadn't tried for a while and noticed some minor - repeat MINOR variance in small factors of performance. The sensations, tactile through fingers and face, I can only place into the context of words and terms I have learnt whilst a member here. IMHO I guess I tried to objectively assess them and rank them against these terms based on the experience and end-results. It was one of those "light-bulb" moments in my admittedly short wet-shaving experience and I thought worthy of sharing. I meant no disrespect to the Great Lather Gods.

I'll take your advice and endeavor to not become a jaded "slip-cynic"...

 

[SliceOfLife]

In general water + soap makes slip. Air helps lather in that it allows the soap to create a structure able to hold more water rather than simply having the soap stay suspended in water (soapy water). If you get too much air in there, the structure collapses and the lather loses most of its water.

While some people believe additives like clays or particular unsaponified saturated fats improve razor slip, there's really no way to test this that I'm aware of, and it would really only come into play in artisan soaps as most commercial soaps eschew such additives. The only exception I can think of in a popular commercial soap is petrolatum which is used in Dr Harris and a few other makers, though I doubt its purpose is to improve the slip, it may have that effect, intentional or not. In the end, both proraso and Cella can give really great lathers. I actually find Proraso to give me a bit thicker lather than Cella does with the way I lather. I could just as easily make some changes to how I'm lathering and reverse that. That's the fortunate thing about high performance shave soaps, they don't require you to break out the measuring spoons to lather and that gives room to experiment.

 

[oc_in_fw]

For me, cushion is nice but slip is more important. If I get weepers, I am doing something wrong and need to correct it.